68 replies to this topic

[scJazz]

Scrotacus 42, on 09 July 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Ah a helpful, active forum warms the soul, done with 19 of my cadet matches, still struggling to just pilot the thing correctly as I keep letting my momentum build up too much and keep running into stuff when trying to maneuver or run away (turning on throttle decay helps a bit). Probably too much Hawken.....the only thing stopping me now that it keeps saying "session lost" right after I log in or "network request timed out". Very annoying, don't think theres anything wrong with my internet connection. Anyway I'll probably save up for an XL 280 or 290, I want to keep the engine to where it weighs equal or less than what it weighs now at 15 tons. I also read up on jumping and re-equipped 2 jump jets. Probably gonna stick with both ferro armor and endo stell for now, though maybe with an XL engine then I won't have enough free slots. I guess the issue with my current build is the medium lasers that came on it and lack of double heat sinks. Also the SRM4 doesn't do squat it seems like. I kinda feel I need weapons that are effective from longer than 270m though, for something thats not a brawler, you sure do have to get close to things to hit them hard.

Getting about 325k c-bills per match so tentatively I'll end up with 4.5-4.7 million c-bills when I'm done being a cadet (I already burned through 12 of them before I started this thread and made a series of blunders). The DHS is a must for sure, even with 4 med lasers you overheat so fast, whats a good heat efficiency rating? Mine is at 0.98, I had it up a little higher but removed a heat sink to get more armor on there, that seems low. Is there a typical target range or rule of thumb based on what weapons you use? Anyway thanks again for all the help, I feel much more acclamated even after just a day. Hopefully now the game will just let me play and stop losing the session.

Welcome to MWO!

Piloting lights requires something special. I'm not sure what that quality is... I just know I don't have it. So yes, blundering into walls is a common occurrence. It is also quite deadly because a light that isn't moving is a smoking crater.

There are some posts regarding the "Session Lost" on logon. Make sure these items are up to date...
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2490760

The XL280 or XL300 are the engines you want. If in fact you want to continue down this Jenner/Light mech path you are on.

Light mechs almost never have problems fitting Endo, Ferro, and XL Engines. They just don't have enough tonnage really.

The SRM4 is doing something you don't really notice because you aren't on the receiving end. They rattle the cockpit of your target making his job of concentrating on killing you that much harder.

It would seem you have enough to either buy an XLEngine or start up a stock Hunchback. Your call!

Heat efficiencies in the 1.2+ are reasonable. Higher is as always better. One thing you might want to do is count how many times you can fire all of your weapons before you overheat. Then keep that number in mind. I suspect right now you'll overheat on the 3rd shot.

As for a rule of thumb... largely depends on the mech and its role. Most everyone uses Smurfy at http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ . You can use the MechLab to configure and mess around with designs. The Weapons Lab will then tell you how long you can fire your weapons before overheating. I will say this on the subject since your Jenner has a role. Overheating is death! Do not ever do it!

Ohhhh one last thing... right now you are being placed in the Newbie ELO bracket. Once your Cadet matches are over you'll be matched in the normal bracket. So... yeah... watch out for that... depending on how you have been doing it could be a really rude shock.

PROTIP Put the ammo in your head

Never use CASE... along with AC10s just pretend they do not exist.

BAP is pointless on your Jenner K as configured. Skip it.

[Aegic]

zraven7, on 08 July 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Ok, here goes. First of all, it does not matter where you place heat sinks for the most part. One's placed in the legs do better when you're in water, but that's about it.

Not true. Dont forget that heatsinks are an effective way to "buffer" against damage.

For example, if you have an arm that has a STRK-SRM2 in it and one ton of ammo for it and thats it once the armor is gone each hit you take has a 50% chance to damage one of those components. One of which you lose the weapon entirely and the other you lose a ton of ammo for said weapon at best and at worst have an ammo explosion.

If you add 2 heatsinks that 50% chance drops to 25% for each component. That way you have 50% chance of losing one heat sink and a 25% for damaging the weapon and 25% for losing the ammo/explosion. Helps survivability alot!

This all of course depends on your playstyle and if you even run with additional heatsinks outside your engine.

P.S. Dont act like CASE doesnt exist, it has saved my butt alot on my heavy/assault builds.

Edited by Aegic, 09 July 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[Unnatural Growth]

Endo Steel and FF armor fit no problem with an XL300 engine. As I and others said before, on the Jenners, you run out of weight before you run out of slots. The lights are the only mechs that I'd encourage using FF armor. On meds and heavies, it's just not worth it. Always Endo Steel though, imo, at least so far on the mechs I've build out, it has been worth it.

I encourage BAP for the sole reason that it gives you slightly more of a chance to detect that enemy mech before you blunder over that hill or ridge and run smack into them. Also you get an advantage over a non ECM enemy mech that doesn't have BAP by seeing him before he sees you. It's more critical to being able to choose your engagements in a light. So, being surprised by an enemy lance or mech is not healthy.

And always remember, you DON'T have ECM, so if you can see the enemy, THEY can see you too.

I wouldn't bother with CASE on a light. Just not worth the weight imo. You can put the ammo in your head or legs if you want. The big guys love to aim for the legs on Jenners, especially if you're stopped or slow. I run my ammo in left torso, or left and right torso anyway. The side torso's on a Jenner are almost impossible to hit, and not worth worrying about.

It's the big a s s center torso that's the juicy target on Jenners.

[Rando Slim]

Alright, finally got the XL 280 and the SRM 6 and a third jumpjet (I now finally get how to use jumpjets......you just need a lil momentum and some practice ), I'm all set up I think at least for the Jenner K.  I guess I see why others like the other variants better.....more weapon hardpoints.  Gonna play around with different main weapons, see if I like something besides the Medium lasers.  i still have .3 tons left that I guess I can't do much with since my armor is maxed out and I don't have enough for a 4th jumpjet.  Thanks for all the help guys.  Have fun squishing me out there on the field.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 09 July 2013 - 05:00 PM.

[scJazz]

Scrotacus 42, on 09 July 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Alright, finally got the XL 280 and the SRM 6 and a third jumpjet (I now finally get how to use jumpjets......you just need a lil momentum and some practice ), I'm all set up I think at least for the Jenner K. I guess I see why others like the other variants better.....more weapon hardpoints. Gonna play around with different main weapons, see if I like something besides the Medium lasers. i still have .3 tons left that I guess I can't do much with since my armor is maxed out and I don't have enough for a 4th jumpjet. Thanks for all the help guys. Have fun squishing me out there on the field.

That is only about 8 points of armor to enable you to get the 4th JJ. You could certainly remove some armor from the Side Torsos considering how nearly impossible they are to hit on a Jenner. Couple from Head wouldn't do much harm either I think.

[Red Line Pilot]

So you mech looks something like this now?

That is a nasty one

Run in bzoom bzoom 4 lasers,
Woosh SRM 6 to the face,
and bzoom bzoom 4 lasers again on the retreat

I still would have gone with the 300XL and 2 Jumpjets though, but that's just me.

Edited by Red Line Pilot, 09 July 2013 - 05:48 PM.

[Rando Slim]

Pretty close, I have AMS system and ammo for it with max armor, and thus only 100 SRM ammo and one less DHS but eh, I'm usually long dead before I use it all, lol. I'll try a 300XL on a different variant since I'm saving up for my next one. I am fine with two jumpjets, its just then I'd have .8 tons left and theres nothing else I can use really, I think I might go ahead and sacrifice the few points of armor and try either the 4th jumpjet or an additional DHS. Choices choices. I love it.

[Hammerhai]

3 JJ's gets you out of tight spots on Frozen and to some extent Alpine, so that is about the minimum I would go. You can climb the walls you need to climb with that getup.
I never use AMS and hug cover instead, but have died to LURMpocalypses due to that. Would rather get the sensor boost with BAP for that tonnage.

IF you want to move away from lights, preferably stay away from the lowest weight in each weight bracket. This would be Commando, Dragons, maybe the Victor for assaults although I cannot comment there. The sweet spots for Mech weight are 75 Tons Heavies and 55 Tons Mediums, which PGI has not given us any Mechs for yet. Also some of the Hero Mechs are for "difficult" chassis, such as the Flame and Fang Dragons, or the Pretty Baby Awesome. The Mech I liked the best is the Jenner 7F Champion Mech.

Many are very happy with the Ilya Muromets for the Heavies, as it can load 3 UAC5. If you feel the need to blow some MC, those are my recommendations.
Good luck.

Edited by Hammerhai, 09 July 2013 - 07:50 PM.

[Hebdomas]

Scrotacus 42, on 09 July 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Yea I planned on keeping Ferro and Endo with an XL 280 is what I'm saving for. I just got the DHS, wow what a difference! I'm thinking of switching to SRM 6 also.

A fellow noob posted a topic yesterday and one point that he said was: "put your ammo in the legs because it rarely gets hit and you can avoid having to get CASE", how valid is that? If I have to get CASE that will kinda mean I can't get SRM 6 or Artemis. I also was trying to decide if I should get BAP.

If you have an XL engine putting CASE in the side torso does nothing for you. CASE prevents ammo damage from spreading out of that section, with an XL engine the engine is partially in your side torso so an ammo explosion in your side torso will still result in your engine being destroyed and you being dead.

Most of the time you can get away with putting ammo in the legs, but not with lights. Just about everyone aims for the legs when fighting lights to slow them down and make them easier to hit. As a Jenner you can put your ammo in your head or side torso (if you're using an XL and you should be). I think I've died from losing my side torso once, so it's pretty safe.

Artemis is around 800,000 c-bills and in my opinion isn't worth it for just a single launcher. It also takes up a ton per launcher, that's a ton that could be used for a DHS if you have space left.

Beagle Active Probe can be useful, but in my opinion you don't really need it unless you're using streaks (SSRM2). The only benefits you'd get is being able to target enemies (pressing "R") at longer range (and possibly faster?) which might be helpful in scouting/spotting for LRMs though I would only worry about equipping a BAP if you're in a premade and you know there will be LRMs. The other benefit is that you can negate the effects of ECM on the nearest enemy mech affected by ECM if they're within 180m (I think, but it's pretty short range regardless). This is mainly useful if you're using streaks as they need to lock on. To recap unless you're using streaks or in a premade with dedicated LRM support I wouldn't worry about it.

[Rando Slim]

Hammerhai, on 09 July 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

3 JJ's gets you out of tight spots on Frozen and to some extent Alpine, so that is about the minimum I would go. You can climb the walls you need to climb with that getup.
I never use AMS and hug cover instead, but have died to LURMpocalypses due to that. Would rather get the sensor boost with BAP for that tonnage.

IF you want to move away from lights, preferably stay away from the lowest weight in each weight bracket. This would be Commando, Dragons, maybe the Victor for assaults although I cannot comment there. The sweet spots for Mech weight are 75 Tons Heavies and 55 Tons Mediums, which PGI has not given us any Mechs for yet. Also some of the Hero Mechs are for "difficult" chassis, such as the Flame and Fang Dragons, or the Pretty Baby Awesome. The Mech I liked the best is the Jenner 7F Champion Mech.

Many are very happy with the Ilya Muromets for the Heavies, as it can load 3 UAC5. If you feel the need to blow some MC, those are my recommendations.
Good luck.

Thanks, yes I see now that CASE is not too useful on a light, and esp on a jenner thats hard to hit anywhere but legs and center torso. I also have noticed going back to 2 jets and an extra heatsink that you are right on.....there is a noticeable difference in the maneuvers I can pull with 3 jets like I had before versus 2. I may very well take your suggestion to try and see how I fare without AMS so I can have 4 jets and keep my extra heatsink. I like AMS though, it mitigates a lot of damage but also isn't 100 percent effective either, if the missiles are coming at me I can dodge them somewhat, maybe I need AMS as a crutch for now, but then maybe not having it will force me to learn to pilot better. Not too expensive to try out though, I'll see how it goes without it.

[Aym]

Scrotacus 42, on 09 July 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Ah a helpful, active forum warms the soul, done with 19 of my cadet matches, still struggling to just pilot the thing correctly as I keep letting my momentum build up too much and keep running into stuff when trying to maneuver or run away (turning on throttle decay helps a bit). Probably too much Hawken.....the only thing stopping me now that it keeps saying "session lost" right after I log in or "network request timed out". Very annoying, don't think theres anything wrong with my internet connection. Anyway I'll probably save up for an XL 280 or 290, I want to keep the engine to where it weighs equal or less than what it weighs now at 15 tons. I also read up on jumping and re-equipped 2 jump jets. Probably gonna stick with both ferro armor and endo stell for now, though maybe with an XL engine then I won't have enough free slots. I guess the issue with my current build is the medium lasers that came on it and lack of double heat sinks. Also the SRM4 doesn't do squat it seems like. I kinda feel I need weapons that are effective from longer than 270m though, for something thats not a brawler, you sure do have to get close to things to hit them hard.

Getting about 325k c-bills per match so tentatively I'll end up with 4.5-4.7 million c-bills when I'm done being a cadet (I already burned through 12 of them before I started this thread and made a series of blunders). The DHS is a must for sure, even with 4 med lasers you overheat so fast, whats a good heat efficiency rating? Mine is at 0.98, I had it up a little higher but removed a heat sink to get more armor on there, that seems low. Is there a typical target range or rule of thumb based on what weapons you use? Anyway thanks again for all the help, I feel much more acclamated even after just a day. Hopefully now the game will just let me play and stop losing the session.

Get the 300XL, trust us. you'll be able to put an extra heat sink in there, which frees up crit slots since double heat sinks take up 3 crit slots normall. Get double heat sinks on the mech, endosteel, ferro. This build works on any Jenner chassis, has 4 Mlas, Bap, AMS, 300xl, max armor, 10 true double heat sinks in the engine (effectively 20 single heat sinks), two jumpjets and almost 3 tons to play with.
http://mechromancer....1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0
Trust us when we say the 300xl is a great engine. The only possible reason to get anything else is an XL 295 to use in a Raven 3L, but the 300 XL is just better for Cataphracts, Awesome, Catapults, Jenners, and I'm sure plenty of other mechs.

[scJazz]

Scrotacus 42, on 09 July 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Pretty close, I have AMS system and ammo for it with max armor, and thus only 100 SRM ammo and one less DHS but eh, I'm usually long dead before I use it all, lol. I'll try a 300XL on a different variant since I'm saving up for my next one. I am fine with two jumpjets, its just then I'd have .8 tons left and theres nothing else I can use really, I think I might go ahead and sacrifice the few points of armor and try either the 4th jumpjet or an additional DHS. Choices choices. I love it.

You really don't need an AMS on your Jenner. All you need to do is move. At anything over 100km/h lights and to some extent mediums become incredibly hard to hit with LRMs. The AMS is giving you protection against Streaks but not that much since Streaks are very fast and most often launched from well under 200m. Use the weight somewhere else like JJs and DSHS. BAP will do nothing for you at the moment. It just increases lock range from 800m to 1000m and negates ECM under 200m. You aren't using any lock on weapons so its usefulness for you right now as a new pilot is limited.

[Tor Gungnir]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell....

Wouldn't a BAP allow his friendly LRM boats to pelt any nearby Lights that are running ECM?

[scJazz]

Tor Gungnir, on 10 July 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell....

Wouldn't a BAP allow his friendly LRM boats to pelt any nearby Lights that are running ECM?

If hitting Lights with LRMs was a good thing yeah... yeah it would. I run LRMs almost exclusively, even with Artemis, TAG, and undersized tubes hitting a Light mech that isn't standing still with LRMs is extremely difficult. Firing indirect on a Light with his BAP provided Target is almost entirely useless as they odds of them running in and out of ECM reveal is huge. Firing Direct with TAG against his BAP revealed Light slightly less useless. The greatest advantage is psychological... having Betty Bitchin'!

[zraven7]

Aegic, on 09 July 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Not true. Dont forget that heatsinks are an effective way to "buffer" against damage.

For example, if you have an arm that has a STRK-SRM2 in it and one ton of ammo for it and thats it once the armor is gone each hit you take has a 50% chance to damage one of those components. One of which you lose the weapon entirely and the other you lose a ton of ammo for said weapon at best and at worst have an ammo explosion.

If you add 2 heatsinks that 50% chance drops to 25% for each component. That way you have 50% chance of losing one heat sink and a 25% for damaging the weapon and 25% for losing the ammo/explosion. Helps survivability alot!

This all of course depends on your playstyle and if you even run with additional heatsinks outside your engine.

P.S. Dont act like CASE doesnt exist, it has saved my butt alot on my heavy/assault builds.

Fair, fair. I was only speaking on cooling, wasn't gonna throw something like crit buffers at someone just starting, is all.

[VikingN1nja]

I kept F & D one with streaks/4mlas or 4x mplas and the other with 6 mlas they are awesome mechs. I would unlock the basics then elite the F & D.

TBH when i started i hated the jenner sold it but after playing for a few months it is now one of my fave mechs hands down, handles awesome and packs a little jenner punch!

Heatsinks can go anywhere the adavntage of bigger engines have extra space so you can free up slots for weapons.

Typical build

Jenner D
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b959adcd4a42b5b

Jenner F
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cba6cd60185b73d

I typically group lasers on left to mouse button 1 and right to 2,streaks to button side of mouse and alpha to the scoll wheel.

You can always put 4 pulse in either is always good too.(i use the pulses in my D)

Edited by omegaorgun, 10 July 2013 - 05:52 AM.

[Hammerhai]

Just to explain the "true" heatsinks. Up to 10 Heatsinks are integral to the engine, and these are "truly" double heatsinks as in canon. They dissipate twice the amount of heat a single heat sink does.

Any other heat sinks only actually dissipate 1.4 times as much as a single heat sink, due to game balance reasons. These include the extra heat sinks for which there is space in the engine which are slot on and not integral to the engine. Below a certain engine rating you actually have to install heatsinks to make up the 10 minimum which the mech requires. Avoid engines like that for lights as you will have to sacrifice up to 3 crit slots (simply the space a thing takes up in the mech) to even be able to run the mech. This bracket starts somewhere around 245 engine rating or slightly below.

Also Note that some assault builds actually stay away from double heat sinks, as the math makes for diminishing returns on investment past a certain amount of double heat sinks. Don't fret too much, just be aware double heat sinks on heavy builds are not always optimal for the future.

[scJazz]

Hey Scrotacus...


JR7-K Scrotacus 42 Build
With AMS and BAP

JR7-K Scrotacus 42 Build Type 2
The I will never again worry about heat management variant - BAP and - AMS

Seriously, the BAP is only going to be useful to you when you really get the hang of acting as Fire Controller for Indirect LRM salvos. As a pilot who nearly exclusively pilots LRM armed mechs (not LRMBoats) I can say good Light pilots who do this well are so wonderful to have on the team. Bad Light pilots who try to do this and suck at it are worse than useless.

The difference between the SRM4 and SRM6 aside from the obvious 1 ton and 2 extra missiles is the subtle but worth noting fact that SRM4s get 25 salvos per ton and SRM6s only 16. With tonnage and heat management at a premium in a Jenner the SRM4 seems a worthwhile compromise.

You have absorbed everything the community has been telling you very well and we have more or less beaten the JR7-K variant to death at this point. I hope to see you on the battlefield soon

[Tor Gungnir]

scJazz, on 10 July 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

The greatest advantage is psychological... having Betty Bitchin'!

I hear that.

My nightmares are filled with that computer chick saying "Incoming Missile!"

I wake up screaming.

Edited by Tor Gungnir, 10 July 2013 - 07:52 AM.

[Rando Slim]

Well once again, I owe you all a big thank you, I could quite reasonably "like" every single post and mean it honestly. I'm just gonna cave and buy some premium time, buy my other two Jenners, sell the K (not the parts for it). And just mess around with a variety of builds between the F and D. I already got the XL 280 last night before those last few posts advocating the 300, but eh, I'll get one eventually before I'm done with the Jenner line. Maybe I'll stay away from the BAP though, I'm a terrible spotter/scout. My style seems to be hit and run offense and flank attacks (not that I'm good at that yet either with a KDR of 0.18 but I've had a few decent matches where I felt useful).

I still want a hero mech to have something else already kitted out to jump into for variety and c-bills sake. I looked at that Cataphract hero variant, might get that one or the Wang. I gotta say though......this might be the most expensive video game I've ever encountered. That Project Pheonix thing looks intersting too, wish I could pick which mechs I would get so I'm not stuck with the Locust if I only get the 20 or 40 dollar package.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 10 July 2013 - 11:22 AM.