197 replies to this topic

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Shot spread? What ******* shot spread? There is zero shot spread already, and that is the problem. The entirety of BT armor and damage values are based upon the concept that striking the same section with all of the damage from one volley is statistically possible.

With perfect convergence, this is nowhere near the case. Even with DOUBLE armor values, mechs still die far faster than ever intended. The only only ONLY way to fix the problem without ******* over a single weapon type is to remove perfect convergence and apply realistic weapon firing lines based off of actual hardpoint locations, forcing players to aim individually located weapons as though they are just that.

The rounds from weapons would look like this, in a few examples.

Hunchback's 8ml hunch

O O
O O
O O
O O

Currently, it is just

O

Jagermech's AC40

O O

Currently is

O

Putting perfect convergence into a game whose core function is designed to not have it is like giving amazonian tribesmen AR-15's and expecting them to not murder all their nemesis tribes. (That really happened.) PGI, this is logic 101 for ****'s sake.

[HighlandCoo]

PGI can't figure out how to do it - or just don't care. Sorry.

[MaddMaxx]

Sell your Gimble factory stocks lads, they are going to tank when the market hears about this gem...

[xDeityx]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 09 July 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Shot spread? What ******* shot spread? There is zero shot spread already, and that is the problem. The entirety of BT armor and damage values are based upon the concept that striking the same section with all of the damage from one volley is statistically possible.

Convergence is directly countered by pilot skill. Try turning your torso when you're getting fired on and not exposing yourself to PPC boats (hopefully they will be fixed soon so that second part won't be an issue).

Adding random aiming elements to a video game franchise that never had them would be a great way to kill the game. This isn't table top where you roll to see who wins.

Whenever I see whine threads about convergence I can't help but hear "I got killed by someone who can aim better and faster than I can. Please nerf skill."

[Elyam]

They know quite well how to do it. They just don't want to. The Streaks are presently set to randomly impact on 1 of 7 'bones', which is the same general idea as the BT TT hit chart, though slightly simplified. They came to the conclusion early on that most online players would find the game more appealing if they pursued the present model rather than the BT norm of lost technology = inaccurate firing results. So far they have shown no interest in changing course, and most players (including a large section of very vocal ones) demand results somewhere along the present concept.

[soarra]

xDeityx, on 09 July 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Convergence is directly countered by pilot skill. Try turning your torso when you're getting fired on and not exposing yourself to PPC boats (hopefully they will be fixed soon so that second part won't be an issue).

Adding random aiming elements to a video game franchise that never had them would be a great way to kill the game. This isn't table top where you roll to see who wins.

Whenever I see whine threads about convergence I can't help but hear "I got killed by someone who can aim better and faster than I can. Please nerf skill."

really?
so if i fire a ppc from each arm, 1 from each side torso they should all hit the same spot?
wow

[xDeityx]

soarra, on 09 July 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

really?
so if i fire a ppc from each arm, 1 from each side torso they should all hit the same spot?
wow

Yes. Why shouldn't they? Do you think they'd just bolt the weapons onto the 'mechs with no ability to slightly adjust aim independent of the chassis? Wow.

Convergence has been here for decades and it isn't going anywhere. Improve your aim, learn to torso twist, or die.

[soarra]

xDeityx, on 09 July 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Yes. Why shouldn't they? Do you think they'd just bolt the weapons onto the 'mechs with no ability to slightly adjust aim independent of the chassis? Wow.

Convergence has been here for decades and it isn't going anywhere. Improve your aim, learn to torso twist, or die.

well the weapons on the torso should have zero convergence since they are mounted and stationary
the arms should have convergence
sounds like your upset you won't be able to boat your ppcs soon

[Barantor]

Check this out then.

http://mwomercs.com/...oats-and-clans/

[xDeityx]

soarra, on 09 July 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

well the weapons on the torso should have zero convergence since they are mounted and stationary
the arms should have convergence
sounds like your upset you won't be able to boat your ppcs soon

They are not stationary, that would be imbecilic. They are mounted in such a way that they have the wiggle room to converge.

I can't wait for the day when we won't be able to boat PPCs, actually. That's why I said in my first post in this thread, "Try turning your torso when you're getting fired on and not exposing yourself to PPC boats (hopefully they will be fixed soon so that second part won't be an issue)."

[Throat Punch]

xDeityx, on 09 July 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Yes. Why shouldn't they? Do you think they'd just bolt the weapons onto the 'mechs with no ability to slightly adjust aim independent of the chassis? Wow.

Convergence has been here for decades and it isn't going anywhere. Improve your aim, learn to torso twist, or die.

Unless they had a targeting computer, then yes they did have no ability to make minor adjustments. Read up on your TT rules. You could do pinpoint "called shots" but only with a TC equipped. Otherwise the "random shots" to various area's were because the ability to adjust your shots on the fly with pinpoint accuracy was unavailable. Just because video games prior to MWO got it wrong and applied pin point accuracy doesn't mean MWO should follow suit.

Quote

The Targeting Computer was introduced by Clan Mongoose in 2860.Targeting Computers are sophisticated pieces of electronics that, unlike normal targeting systems, physically help MechWarriors target their opponents. Recoil compensators and gyroscopic stabilizers are used to prevent normal weapon drift from factors such as recoil and movement while the computer accounts for atmospheric and other conditions to present an accurate "lead" on the target. This allows for more surgical precision of weapons fire, especially with naturally accurate systems, allowing for the user to hit specific parts on the target vehicle.


The Inner Sphere finally caught up to Clan technology with the Federated Suns' development of their own targeting computer in 3062

Edited by Morsdraco, 09 July 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[soarra]

Barantor, on 09 July 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Check this out then.

http://mwomercs.com/...oats-and-clans/

There are many good and a lot of bad ideas on the forums on how to fix this, hopefully pgi will do something soon

[Adridos]

They could remove convergence... or create a new armor system that expects the ammount of punishment that is inevitable for the mech to overcome.

Current system is "unbalancable", since as pointed out, it was designed under different circumstances.

Perfect convergence on Daishi's... with 4 UAC/20s... any questions?

[xDeityx]

Morsdraco, on 09 July 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Read up on your TT rules.

In TT could a PPC on your left torso hit the same part of the enemy 'mech as a PPC on your right torso? If so then the weapons had the ability to converge, and it's not a mechanical issue preventing weapons from converging (that is, the weapons on the torso were not "bolted on" and unable to fire anywhere but straight ahead).

Honestly though I'd rather leave the tabletop out of this because this is a first-person shooter where we are actually doing the aiming ourselves instead of rolling dice. The random mechanic worked for tabletop but it is not viable for the video game.

[Roland]

xDeityx, on 09 July 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Convergence is directly countered by pilot skill. Try turning your torso when you're getting fired on and not exposing yourself to PPC boats (hopefully they will be fixed soon so that second part won't be an issue).

Turning your torso doesn't really do anything in the case of high alphas stemming from converging weapons. That's actually one of the core issues with perfect convergence.

You cannot soak damage when all of those weapons hit at the same time in exactly the same location. You take all of that damage to a single panel, no matter what. The shooter only had to pull the trigger once.

Quote

Adding random aiming elements to a video game franchise that never had them would be a great way to kill the game. This isn't table top where you roll to see who wins.

Removal of perfect weapons convergence does not require the introduction of randomization, at all. It does not require rolling dice.

Quote

Whenever I see whine threads about convergence I can't help but hear "I got killed by someone who can aim better and faster than I can. Please nerf skill."

I think this illustrates that you are misunderstanding the issues at hand in the discussions of convergence.

[mike29tw]

soarra, on 09 July 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

well the weapons on the torso should have zero convergence since they are mounted and stationary
the arms should have convergence
sounds like your upset you won't be able to boat your ppcs soon

Did you just hallucinate the whole idea that PGI is going to eliminate convergence???

[xDeityx]

Adridos, on 09 July 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

They could remove convergence... or create a new armor system that expects the ammount of punishment that is inevitable for the mech to overcome.

Current system is "unbalancable", since as pointed out, it was designed under different circumstances.

Perfect convergence on Daishi's... with 4 UAC/20s... any questions?

I think coming up with a new way to reflect damage done to armor and components would have been the best bet. But this is PGI we're talking about here. Anytime they try to innovate the results are questionable at best.

[Throat Punch]

xDeityx, on 09 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

In TT could a PPC on your left torso hit the same part of the enemy 'mech as a PPC on your right torso? If so then the weapons had the ability to converge, and it's not a mechanical issue preventing weapons from converging (that is, the weapons on the torso were not "bolted on" and unable to fire anywhere but straight ahead).

Honestly though I'd rather leave the tabletop out of this because this is a first-person shooter where we are actually doing the aiming ourselves instead of rolling dice. The random mechanic worked for tabletop but it is not viable for the video game.

Pinpoint convergence is not viable for a video game either.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

xDeityx, on 09 July 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Convergence is directly countered by pilot skill. Try turning your torso when you're getting fired on and not exposing yourself to PPC boats (hopefully they will be fixed soon so that second part won't be an issue).

Adding random aiming elements to a video game franchise that never had them would be a great way to kill the game. This isn't table top where you roll to see who wins.

Whenever I see whine threads about convergence I can't help but hear "I got killed by someone who can aim better and faster than I can. Please nerf skill."

I never said random, I dont want random either. Uniquelt located weapon slots that still fire in a very accurate and predictable manner BUT do not share the exact same firing point convergence locus.

Unique slots = unique hit locations compared to crosshairs, NOT random.

[soarra]

mike29tw, on 09 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Did you just hallucinate the whole idea that PGI is going to eliminate convergence???

dreaming, but they have to do something