49 replies to this topic

[Volts]

aniviron, on 09 July 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Get one jumpjet in there. You get pretty rapidly diminishing returns from having more than one jumpjet, but using just one ton gives you substantially better turning radius, and the ability to get over medium height obstacles. Given what an incredibly low tonnage investment it is, I can't imagine not putting it in.

Running it as a boosted CNT with JJ and I'm liking it. 4/4 JJ is a noticeable improvement over 2/4. It allows me a full torso twist and enables me to jump over decent sized buildings in frozen / river city.

[Angel of Annihilation]

aniviron, on 09 July 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Get one jumpjet in there. You get pretty rapidly diminishing returns from having more than one jumpjet, but using just one ton gives you substantially better turning radius, and the ability to get over medium height obstacles. Given what an incredibly low tonnage investment it is, I can't imagine not putting it in.

This is such bad advice. You absolutely do not get diminishing returns from having more than one jumpjet, this is completely false though I doubt you will agree.

I fancy myself something of a JJ specialist as I have pretty much completely devoted myself to piloting JJ capable mechs exclusively and I can tell you without a doubt that 4-5 JJs are infinitely more capable than one. I will honestly say that at first I didn't see the benefit either but since I have started specializing and pushing JJs to their limits, the difference is as obvious as a nuclear explosion.

1 JJ will allow you to cross alot of otherwise impassible terrain but other than that it offers very little tactical flexibiliy in combat. A prime example is last night with my QD and 5 JJs. I had an Altas rush me so I rushed him back....and jumped completely over him, clearing him by at least a mech length...then cleared the hill behind him and landed on the other side. He completely lost track of me at that point which allowed me patiently to walk up behind him and unload into his back, coring him in seconds. You just can't do this sort of ariel manuvering with just 1 JJ. Best you would likely do is clip him with your legs, maybe manage to land directly behind him and by the time you got sorted out, he would be back on you firing away.

No on a jump capable mech you need two things. Speed and more JJs. First forward running speed directly effects jump distance. The faster your moving, the farther you will fly. Second, more JJs equals more vertical height which in turn means being able to clear higher obstacles. Combine the two and you can easily clear a 20-30m tall object with a good running start. You cannot do that on 1 JJ, guarenteed.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 10 July 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[BlackIronTarkus]

Dropped 2 DHS, went from 51% to 46% efficiency, added 2 jumpets. Didn't lose any speed.

VTR-9S USMC-4

Also, when I jump at max speed, is the speed counter actually correct and I slow down as I fly or Im simply going at the same speed but the counter stop working since Im not touching the ground?

Edited by BlackIronTarkus, 10 July 2013 - 08:56 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

VTR-9S
Fix that Leg Armor.

You have 280 pts of BOOM in each leg.

Also, in actual use, you will never notice the speed difference, and I returned your Heat Efficiency.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 July 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

VTR-9S
Fix that Leg Armor.

You have 280 pts of BOOM in each leg.

Also, in actual use, you will never notice the speed difference, and I returned your Heat Efficiency.

Yeah Bish, this is exactly the build I was recommending to him. Glad you linked it up for me as I don't usually go to the trouble. Honestly thanks to the OP, this is pretty much the build I am going to go for with a few alterations. I am going with a 350XL and replacing out the MLs with MPLs and adding an AMS but otherswise the same.

[Bishop Steiner]

Viktor Drake, on 10 July 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Yeah Bish, this is exactly the build I was recommending to him. Glad you linked it up for me as I don't usually go to the trouble. Honestly thanks to the OP, this is pretty much the build I am going to go for with a few alterations. I am going with a 350XL and replacing out the MLs with MPLs and adding an AMS but otherswise the same.

I'm currently toying between these two versions:
VTR-9S
or
VTR-9SURPRISE!

and then for my all around build, which is also my TT build in this era
VTR-9Steiner

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 July 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

I'm currently toying between these two versions:
VTR-9S
or
VTR-9SURPRISE!

and then for my all around build, which is also my TT build in this era
VTR-9Steiner

I actually might try out that VTR-9SURPRISE build hehe. 3 SRM6s are no joke, even with the current limitations on SRMs.

As far as the VRT9Steiner, I am just not sure how your going to keep those PPCs cool enough to get much use out of with only 10 DHS. I have found you need at least 14-15 DHS to keep a pair of them manageable.

[Bishop Steiner]

Viktor Drake, on 10 July 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

I actually might try out that VTR-9SURPRISE build hehe. 3 SRM6s are no joke, even with the current limitations on SRMs.

As far as the VRT9Steiner, I am just not sure how your going to keep those PPCs cool enough to get much use out of with only 10 DHS. I have found you need at least 14-15 DHS to keep a pair of them manageable.

I have used it a fair bit, and no issues. I tend to chainfire for one thing, and use them seldom in CQB, unless I need to blank ECM, or I got a sure shot at 100 meters or so. And the 2 PPC WITH the AC20? Have melted a few mechs with that little pill.

As for the PPCs, I tend to play like a Centy, so a lot of hit and run probably also helps my heat. I also find with staggered weapon ranges, I can usually do OK with anything over 25% efficiency. Higher IS still preferred though.

That said, since "balanced" builds are the ones most punished in the Meta, it's not as dedicated and overall impressive as other builds might be.''In fact, I just got done dropping in a match with the 9S with SRM6s and MPulse, laid out 625 dmg against a Kurita Premade (I was a PUG) and got 3 Kills, 4 asst. Ran a skosh hot, but it was on Tourmaline. And it's been a bit since I used a mech with Cool Shot, so I kept forgetting it was there.

Just realized I have a 350 XL left over from my Flame though.... so I think I will swap to standard Mlasers, and add AMS.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 July 2013 - 10:41 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Viktor Drake, on 10 July 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

I actually might try out that VTR-9SURPRISE build hehe. 3 SRM6s are no joke, even with the current limitations on SRMs.

As far as the VRT9Steiner, I am just not sure how your going to keep those PPCs cool enough to get much use out of with only 10 DHS. I have found you need at least 14-15 DHS to keep a pair of them manageable.

Yeah... Just took out a BoomJager and a DS with the SSRM6 and AC20 Combo. Devastating. And the 3rd kill was a Commando who thought 400 meters was safe from my AC20.........

[Volts]

Viktor Drake, on 10 July 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Yeah Bish, this is exactly the build I was recommending to him. Glad you linked it up for me as I don't usually go to the trouble. Honestly thanks to the OP, this is pretty much the build I am going to go for with a few alterations. I am going with a 350XL and replacing out the MLs with MPLs and adding an AMS but otherswise the same.

I'm running this with the 360XL, and wanted to grab the MPL too. Where are you getting the tonnage from? 350XL?

[Bishop Steiner]

Volts, on 10 July 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

I'm running this with the 360XL, and wanted to grab the MPL too. Where are you getting the tonnage from? 350XL?

It works, but gotta say, I think I prefer the slightly cooler MLasers to the pulse in this instance, and the added range profile certainly doesn't hurt (Have nailed a few nuisance mechs out at 500 meters, sure it's like half damage, but it's about the same as a Gauss at that range when you combine the 2 lasers with an AC20, and LOT more effective up close. And doesn't explode if you sneeze.)

now it's a tossup between VTR-9S
and
VTR-9S

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 July 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[Volts]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 July 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

It works, but gotta say, I think I prefer the slightly cooler MLasers to the pulse in this instance, and the added range profile certainly doesn't hurt (Have nailed a few nuisance mechs out at 500 meters, sure it's like half damage, but it's about the same as a Gauss at that range when you combine the 2 lasers with an AC20, and LOT more effective up close. And doesn't explode if you sneeze.)

now it's a tossup between VTR-9S
and
VTR-9S

Your SSRM2 build is exactly what I am running exactly what I am running (but with 4 heat sinks rounding off the tonnage).

I'm liking it alot. The DS is a fun mech, but I was never really happy about my loadouts (I tried tons). This 9S I feel plays the role of 'jump into the middle of melee, kill steal and wreck havoc with an arm mounted AC20 and streak and jump out'.

Early days yet, but really digging it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Volts, on 10 July 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Your SSRM2 build is exactly what I am running exactly what I am running (but with 4 heat sinks rounding off the tonnage).

I'm liking it alot. The DS is a fun mech, but I was never really happy about my loadouts (I tried tons). This 9S I feel plays the role of 'jump into the middle of melee, kill steal and wreck havoc with an arm mounted AC20 and streak and jump out'.

Early days yet, but really digging it.

I call it my " 'Roid Raging Giant Centy on a Pogostick^tm". Tell you what tho.... those 3x SRM6 WITH an AC20? WOW. Not as ammo efficient, or as versatile as the streaks (takes some doing and if you are wolf packed, you are pretty much screwed) but against anything slower than a Cicada? Lights out!

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 July 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

I am liking mine also. I am running mine with an AC20, 3 SRM6s and two Med Lasers. It also has 3 jump jets and an XL 370 engine. I like it because you can fire and then twist and move unlike with SSRMs where you need to try and maintain lock. I might drop down to a to a XL 365 to pick up the 4th jump jet. Not sure yet.

[Bishop Steiner]

XX Sulla XX, on 10 July 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

I am liking mine also. I am running mine with an AC20, 3 SRM6s and two Med Lasers. It also has 3 jump jets and an XL 370 engine. I like it because you can fire and then twist and move unlike with SSRMs where you need to try and maintain lock. I might drop down to a to a XL 365 to pick up the 4th jump jet. Not sure yet.

that 4th jet really is worth it, IMO.

[CarnifexMaximus]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e23b2f031255123

Just my input. Seems like folks are favoring streaks but I prefer use all 10 tubes.

My original build involved 12 ASRMs, but I don't like being unable to deliver a full volley because of tube limitations.

Giving in to the 10 tube reality liberated some tonnage and crit space. That is why I have more sinks than I honestly need. Before I ran 2 extra sinks. Now, with the extra sinks I can alpha all day and not overheat (I'm sure it's possible but I lost track after the 4th alpha in testing grounds)

Edit:
@ PGI: what is the point of giving a mech 3 missile HPs, when it's still limited to 10 tubes max?

Edited by CarnifexMaximus, 10 July 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[aniviron]

Viktor Drake, on 10 July 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

This is such bad advice. You absolutely do not get diminishing returns from having more than one jumpjet, this is completely false though I doubt you will agree.

I fancy myself something of a JJ specialist as I have pretty much completely devoted myself to piloting JJ capable mechs exclusively and I can tell you without a doubt that 4-5 JJs are infinitely more capable than one. I will honestly say that at first I didn't see the benefit either but since I have started specializing and pushing JJs to their limits, the difference is as obvious as a nuclear explosion.

1 JJ will allow you to cross alot of otherwise impassible terrain but other than that it offers very little tactical flexibiliy in combat. A prime example is last night with my QD and 5 JJs. I had an Altas rush me so I rushed him back....and jumped completely over him, clearing him by at least a mech length...then cleared the hill behind him and landed on the other side. He completely lost track of me at that point which allowed me patiently to walk up behind him and unload into his back, coring him in seconds. You just can't do this sort of ariel manuvering with just 1 JJ. Best you would likely do is clip him with your legs, maybe manage to land directly behind him and by the time you got sorted out, he would be back on you firing away.

No on a jump capable mech you need two things. Speed and more JJs. First forward running speed directly effects jump distance. The faster your moving, the farther you will fly. Second, more JJs equals more vertical height which in turn means being able to clear higher obstacles. Combine the two and you can easily clear a 20-30m tall object with a good running start. You cannot do that on 1 JJ, guarenteed.

I'm not going to claim to be a jumpjet specialist; I only have a handful of mechs that can use them. I stick by my statement that you do get diminishing returns (I will admit that all my jump-capable mechs are light, though) from multiple jets; but that having more than one is not bad. It's just that OP's build seems to really need the tonnage elsewhere, and I am suggesting he frees up one ton for a jj, which is doable on this build. Sure, having five jjs would be fantastic and if he had the weight for it I'd say do it, but the difference between 0 and 1 jumpjets for 1 ton is massive, and the difference between 1 and 5 will get you out of some situations, but I don't think most of the time it's worth four extra tons. Again, if you're building your mech around it and you can play those jets like a virtuoso, then by all means, put five in there and go fly into the deep blue yonder. But if you just want an 80 ton brawler without many frills attached, I suggest putting on that one extra ton to get the added utility of jjs without much weight cost.

[General Taskeen]

Behold

VTR-110%OPMACHINE

[Bishop Steiner]

aniviron, on 10 July 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

I'm not going to claim to be a jumpjet specialist; I only have a handful of mechs that can use them. I stick by my statement that you do get diminishing returns (I will admit that all my jump-capable mechs are light, though) from multiple jets; but that having more than one is not bad. It's just that OP's build seems to really need the tonnage elsewhere, and I am suggesting he frees up one ton for a jj, which is doable on this build. Sure, having five jjs would be fantastic and if he had the weight for it I'd say do it, but the difference between 0 and 1 jumpjets for 1 ton is massive, and the difference between 1 and 5 will get you out of some situations, but I don't think most of the time it's worth four extra tons. Again, if you're building your mech around it and you can play those jets like a virtuoso, then by all means, put five in there and go fly into the deep blue yonder. But if you just want an 80 ton brawler without many frills attached, I suggest putting on that one extra ton to get the added utility of jjs without much weight cost.

why can't we have BOTH?
VTR-9Steiner
That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 July 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

I think I might change mine around to this.... AC20, ERPPC, 3 SRM 6s, 3 jump jets. Seeing if I can keep my speed about 80 but up my pinpoint damage to 30.