33 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

MeiSooHaityu, on 10 July 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

Yea, I personally don't consider 2 PPCs a "Boat".



Yea, I just thought the Treb was funny. Some people are good with PPCs, but with it being so prevelant, it is leading to poor builds that could benefit from better loadouts. 6 PPC Stalkers (or really any Assault with a lot of PPCs) and the like are a bit too dangerous, but with smaller mechs like Mediums, it seems like a poor decision. If you do go a large PPC setup in a medium, don't stop at 3, install 5 (if you can fit it) and just go for broke . Your going to shut down anyway, might as well do more damage (and roast your internals in the process).

Honestly I think this is the case with Quad PPC stalkers and the like. It is really hard to heat manage 4 PPCs with the current heat sink rates and even they either shut down often or really have to slow down their sustained firepower.

Now I understand how they could make good snipers because they just don't have to really hammer down and keep firing when doing that but when the match gets in close and you got a fast heavy circling in close where your going to likely miss at least some of your shots due to irregular terrain and such, the heat you generate is just as likely to get you killed as kill the enemy with that one lucky shot.

Anyway I think tonight I will boat out my 3F and see what the Quad PPC meta is all about. Observing is one things, actually using is another so at least after I run 10-15 matches with the PPC boat I will be able give it a decent evaluation and see if my observations about it are correct.

[jper4]

Viktor Drake, on 09 July 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

This just goes to show you that alot of the complaints out there are totally bogus.

I had a guy in my last match complaining that I was boating PPCs on my Dragon Slayer because I had a good game as was wrecking the enemy team.

I don't boat PPCs. I run one ER PPC backed up by a Gauss, 2 MLs and 2 Streaks. He didn't believe me.

Wow imagine that, you can be effective without boating PPCs hehe, whos going to believe that story.

Incredible- how much did the GaussPPC, MLPPC and SSRMPPCs cost in the mech lab? couldn;t find them in mine.

autolocked streak PPCs would be awesome to boat, to watch the energy glow circling those lights 50 times before it finally lands- be like attack of the fairies or something- but for 12 damage each! return of the streakPPC Cat for sure. 72 point alphas away!

[Yiazmat]

Viktor Drake, on 09 July 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

This just goes to show you that alot of the complaints out there are totally bogus.

I had a guy in my last match complaining that I was boating PPCs on my Dragon Slayer because I had a good game as was wrecking the enemy team.

I don't boat PPCs. I run one ER PPC backed up by a Gauss, 2 MLs and 2 Streaks. He didn't believe me.

Wow imagine that, you can be effective without boating PPCs hehe, whos going to believe that story.

Yeah, some people don't know what the actual definition of "boat" is. I give crap to PPC boats all the time when I pummel them in my Stalker. Then they come back with the "says the LRM BOAT!" Sorry, arse hole, I'm not a 'LRM boat' I just have LRMs.

A 'boat' implies that you have one, ONE, (1), weapon type, nothing else.4 PPC stalker? Boat. 100 LRM stalker? Boat. 9 ML Swayback? Boat (but a good kind) AC/40 Jagermech? ... Yeah OK I'd call him a boat.

Your Victor with 1 ERPPC, 1 Gauss, 2 Streaks and 2 ML? Not a boat. My Stalker with 2 LRM 10's, 2 LRM 15's, 2ML's, 2SL's, a TAG and BAP? Not a boat, bro. I've finished off many a mech with needles to the face after a good luuuurrrming.

My advice to you, is to just ignore them when they say "QQ BOAT!" because you know what you're driving. All's they see on their kill list is "ERPPC/GAUSS" but not how many hit. So they think the Highlander 732 Cheese King or some such.

Or make fun of them for being killed via Victor (which I believe is nothing more than a jumping Awesome)

Edited by Yiazmat, 10 July 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Tanar, on 10 July 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Incredible- how much did the GaussPPC, MLPPC and SSRMPPCs cost in the mech lab? couldn;t find them in mine.

autolocked streak PPCs would be awesome to boat, to watch the energy glow circling those lights 50 times before it finally lands- be like attack of the fairies or something- but for 12 damage each! return of the streakPPC Cat for sure. 72 point alphas away!

Streaks aren't as great as all that to be honest. Get ECM anywhere near them and they are just useless weight on your mech that can possibly explode. They also tend to spread damage fairly often so you can't count on them concentrating in the CT any more. Also they are relatively slow moving so it isn't hard for mechs, especially light mechs to avoid them or move out of range of them. I actually only have about a 61% hit rate with them and I use them alot.

I will admit part of that low hit rate is my fault as I tend to fire them often a max range and it isn't uncommon for the enemy mech to manage to get just out of their range causing them to explode without hitting. Still I doubt it would go up more than 10-15% if I always waited till I got with 150m before firing.

[jper4]

Viktor Drake, on 10 July 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Streaks aren't as great as all that to be honest. Get ECM anywhere near them and they are just useless weight on your mech that can possibly explode. They also tend to spread damage fairly often so you can't count on them concentrating in the CT any more. Also they are relatively slow moving so it isn't hard for mechs, especially light mechs to avoid them or move out of range of them. I actually only have about a 61% hit rate with them and I use them alot.

I will admit part of that low hit rate is my fault as I tend to fire them often a max range and it isn't uncommon for the enemy mech to manage to get just out of their range causing them to explode without hitting. Still I doubt it would go up more than 10-15% if I always waited till I got with 150m before firing.

but don;t forget the PPC portion of the SSRMPPCs would cancel the ECM and the pinpoint nature of the PPC part would always hit the same place.

on a more serious note (unlike the above and the other post)- i'm only at like 68% myself with streaks. corners usually kill my shots more than anything. but since i put BAP on any mech carrying 2+ streaks i found the ecm mechs (except the atlas) don;t like hanging around me mocking me with their "ha ha you can;t use your strea...oh crap. RUN AWAY!" attitudes (ok so the serious part didn;t last too long).

so streakcat with BAP would still be a force though assaults can shrug their damage off pretty well for a while- especially when undamaged-. best to wait til they're already beat up before wasting streaks on them. they work best on mediums- too slow to escape like lights(generally), lack the armor of the heavies/assaults to take repeated shots. playing mediums a lot the last thing i want to see (after gauss, ac20s, multi ERPPCs and multi LLs in no particular order) is 3+ streaks on an enemy mech

[FrDrake]

Yiazmat, on 10 July 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Yeah, some people don't know what the actual definition of "boat" is. I give crap to PPC boats all the time when I pummel them in my Stalker. Then they come back with the "says the LRM BOAT!" Sorry, arse hole, I'm not a 'LRM boat' I just have LRMs.

A 'boat' implies that you have one, ONE, (1), weapon type, nothing else.4 PPC stalker? Boat. 100 LRM stalker? Boat. 9 ML Swayback? Boat (but a good kind) AC/40 Jagermech? ... Yeah OK I'd call him a boat.

Your Victor with 1 ERPPC, 1 Gauss, 2 Streaks and 2 ML? Not a boat. My Stalker with 2 LRM 10's, 2 LRM 15's, 2ML's, 2SL's, a TAG and BAP? Not a boat, bro. I've finished off many a mech with needles to the face after a good luuuurrrming.

My advice to you, is to just ignore them when they say "QQ BOAT!" because you know what you're driving. All's they see on their kill list is "ERPPC/GAUSS" but not how many hit. So they think the Highlander 732 Cheese King or some such.

Or make fun of them for being killed via Victor (which I believe is nothing more than a jumping Awesome)

Unless you are dead set on having 2 10's in there, you should look into running a 20 over them. Saves you 1 ton from the Artemis and runs cooler. My stalkers run 2 LRMx20s and 1 LRMx15 with 4 MLAS and TAG but I still call myself a LRM boat.

In your case you have over 30 tons (I assume you carry more than 2 tons of LRM ammo) of LRMs and 2.5 tons to support said LRMs, I still consider you an LRM boat with backup weapons (which is a smart move), because let's face it, you aren't moving into position to take advantage of your laser arsenal, you're positioning for your LRMs and the lasers are just along for the ride.

I guess my definition for boat is if most to all of the available tonnage is devoted to a particular weapon system, and not necessarily some predefined number of a particular weapon in my head. 2 PPC cicada is boating PPCs just as much to me as the 4 PPC stalker. A catapault with 20 tons of LRM gear and 3 tons of lasers is still an LRM boat to me.

[Belorion]

FrDrake, on 10 July 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

Unless you are dead set on having 2 10's in there, you should look into running a 20 over them. Saves you 1 ton from the Artemis and runs cooler. My stalkers run 2 LRMx20s and 1 LRMx15 with 4 MLAS and TAG but I still call myself a LRM boat.

From a DPS standpoint the two 10's are greater than the 20 due to cool down time, but it also generates a lot more heat. A middle solution is to have a 15 and a 5 which is the same weight (after Artemis) and dps almost as high as the two tens with only slightly more heat than the 20.

20:
dps - 4.63
hps - 1.26
tons w/ A - 11

2x10s:
dps - 5.86
hps - 2.14
tons w/ A - 12

15 + 5:
dps - 5.57
hps - 1.8
tons w/ A - 11

4x5:
dps - 6.76
hps - 2.48
tons w/ A - 12

ETA: 4x5 for completeness.

Edited by Belorion, 10 July 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[Hans Von Lohman]

I was called a...and I quote...."A Rat Centurion".

I assume that guy was a non-english speaking person.

Yes, I got MVP for my game. 700 damage.

I have speed of 97KPH on my centurion-AL, 1 ER-large laser, 2 LRM-5's with artemis, and 2 medium lasers, and 1 Tag laser to boost the LRM's and combat ECM.

I was all down to positioning and I was in an excellent spot above a mountain spur up north on Alpine, and they pretty much had to either retreat, or march past me to get around the mountain spur and come up to fight. They marched past me, but oddly only 1 at a time. It wasn't us that won. Instead I say they lost.

Still, it was fun getting that good of a score, but the fact remains comments like that are usually because somebody has been on a losing streak and just wants to be holier than thou and tell you that you're winning is down to a broken game and you cheating a bit than it was to skill.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 10 July 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[NovaWasp]

Not to compare the two games but MechAssault's PPCs were lock on.

You could also death from above.

The SSRMPPC thing just reminded me.

[FupDup]

NovaWasp, on 10 July 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Not to compare the two games but MechAssault's PPCs were lock on.

You could also death from above.

The SSRMPPC thing just reminded me.

Mechassault's Gauss Rifles curved mid-flight to hit the target no matter how much they tried to dodge. DAFUQ?!!!

[Yiazmat]

FrDrake, on 10 July 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

Unless you are dead set on having 2 10's in there, you should look into running a 20 over them. Saves you 1 ton from the Artemis and runs cooler. My stalkers run 2 LRMx20s and 1 LRMx15 with 4 MLAS and TAG but I still call myself a LRM boat.

In your case you have over 30 tons (I assume you carry more than 2 tons of LRM ammo) of LRMs and 2.5 tons to support said LRMs, I still consider you an LRM boat with backup weapons (which is a smart move), because let's face it, you aren't moving into position to take advantage of your laser arsenal, you're positioning for your LRMs and the lasers are just along for the ride.

I guess my definition for boat is if most to all of the available tonnage is devoted to a particular weapon system, and not necessarily some predefined number of a particular weapon in my head. 2 PPC cicada is boating PPCs just as much to me as the 4 PPC stalker. A catapault with 20 tons of LRM gear and 3 tons of lasers is still an LRM boat to me.

Belorion, on 10 July 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

From a DPS standpoint the two 10's are greater than the 20 due to cool down time, but it also generates a lot more heat. A middle solution is to have a 15 and a 5 which is the same weight (after Artemis) and dps almost as high as the two tens with only slightly more heat than the 20.

20:
dps - 4.63
hps - 1.26
tons w/ A - 11

2x10s:
dps - 5.86
hps - 2.14
tons w/ A - 12

15 + 5:
dps - 5.57
hps - 1.8
tons w/ A - 11

4x5:
dps - 6.76
hps - 2.48
tons w/ A - 12

ETA: 4x5 for completeness.

What are you two blithering about? We're talking about 'boating' and what constitutes 'boating' and 'not boating.'

(but if you're dead set on arguing about LRMS, you need to know that the smaller racks are causing more CT damage than the 20's right now. So 2 10's and 2 15's fired in two consecutive volleys in smaller clouds are focuing CT more often. So, yeah, I win.)

[Zordicron]

I boated up 5 ERSSRMPPC + artemis(for the lock on speed bonus, didnt fix it yet I think) on my Awesome 8Q, the "eQualizer" and did 1100 dmg in a match in alpine sniping from 1400M, got 5 kills. Got another kill on a commando that thought it could hide behind me, but my 360 degree target retention and decay modules let me hold lock long enough for my ERSSRMPPC to shoot out sideways and curve behind me to hit him. He was so pissed. It was so cheese, I parked it next to my 6 MG spider in the hanger and left it there.

[Kaox Veed]

I boat PPCs in my Awesome

[Sybreed]

I think people often confuses "PPC boating" with "high pinpoint alpha boating". One can be the other but not vice versa. That's why when people say "nerf ppcs", they should really say "nerf pinpoint damage"