33 replies to this topic

[zraven7]

Ok, I know that MWO wants to make their own versions of the mechs, and I also know this is doubly important when we are dealing with re-seen 'mechs, like the Locust. However, I can't help but feel that, in some areas, you guys may be homogenizing things a bit. I mean, how did these:








become these?









I mean, is it just me, or do they all look kinda similar?

[Tennex]

zraven7, on 03 July 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Ok, I know that MWO wants to make their own versions of the mechs, and I also know this is doubly important when we are dealing with re-seen 'mechs, like the Locust. However, I can't help but feel that, in some areas, you guys may be homogenizing things a bit. I mean, how did these:








become these?









I mean, is it just me, or do they all look kinda similar?

jenner isn't so bad at all. I would also add Raven to that list.

I think a part of the modifications they made to the jenner/locust/catapult is to add a torso, so that it can torso twist. The BT art doesnt look capable of twisting. (they ddi the same for the catapult)

Flea remake was needed in my opinion... The MW4 one was awesome, but had no arms so i guess it woudnt work in MWO..

But i do feel like they could have stayed more true to the BT art for locust.
especially the highly placed arms.



(it also bothers me that both the flea and locust have very similar cockpits) But i try to justify it by telling myself that is the most efficient cockpit design for a tonnage restricted mech...



Could I ask where you got the PNG of jenner/flea concept art?

Edited by Tennex, 03 July 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[zraven7]

Tennex, on 03 July 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Could I ask where you got the PNG of jenner/flea concept art?

I just google image searched the mechs, and used an image I thought was good.

[Butane9000]

I don't know what you're talking about. All of them are unique and loads better then the old artwork.

[zraven7]

Butane9000, on 03 July 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

I don't know what you're talking about. All of them are unique and loads better then the old artwork.

I don't see it. I mean, they don't look bad, just samey. The Locust looks like the Jenner if it had toes, and the Flea looks like the Jenner without the Fax Machine/Air Conditioner butt.

[Tvae]

There is a some homoginization for sure, as all the basic concepts are being done by one person, so they all have a bit of a FlyingDebris feel to them. But honestly, I that's actually a good thing, as it makes them feel like more like they're all being built with similar design philosophies, which makes sense. Look at actual tanks - there are many cases where two tanks made by the same group look completely different, but just as many situations where two tanks made by completely different groups look quite similar. So, you have mechs like the Locust and Flea that are quite alike, then the Jenner that's just a bit farther apart, then on the other end of the spectrum you have the Atlas and Victor. It's just a more gradual scale.

The other thing that might make the mechs all feel more similar is the level of detail - previously, mechs tended to be very simple looking, and their differences were apparent through the use of large, over-emphasized elements and proportions. It made the mechs look very unique, but also (in a lot of cases) quite overdone and... well, silly. Trying to make them look more believable by bringing the designs more in line with each other and adding detail ends up making them more similar both due to them no longer have quite such over-blown elements, as well as the individual details making the overall shape of the design become fuzzier and harder to make out (definitely not a bad thing, but it does result in the mechs appearing similar in a lot of places they previously didn't).

Just look at the Flea and Locust concepts - they have fairly similar basic shapes. Or at least, at first glance they do... The cockpits are similar, yet located in different positions. They both have arm weapons, but completely different ones that look nothing alike. They are chicken walkers, but with different leg and feet shapes. They are different lengths, have different antenna arrays... Looking closer at the details of the designs, they don't actually look that much alike - but similarity in overall shape helps make them feel like they both come from the same place with the same basic design principles, the Inner Sphere.

That actually brings me to the last thing I would like to point out, which is that the Clans will be coming soon. Now, we haven't seen anything from the Clans yet, but I would not be surprised if Alex will try and differentiate the basic design principles for Clan mechs from those of IS mechs. These are factions that have been separated for hundreds of years; it makes sense that the designs of one group would go one direction, while the designs of the other group went a completely different way. Making the IS feel slightly more homoginized could well do wonders for making the Clans feel unique and different from the IS, as opposed to just more of the same.

Edited by Tvae, 03 July 2013 - 08:00 AM.

[zraven7]

Tvae, on 03 July 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

There is a some homoginization for sure, as all the basic concepts are being done by one person, so they all have a bit of a FlyingDebris feel to them. But honestly, I that's actually a good thing, as it makes them feel like more like they're all being built with similar design philosophies, which makes sense. Look at actual tanks - there are many cases where two tanks made by the same group look completely different, but just as many situations where two tanks made by completely different groups look quite similar. So, you have mechs like the Locust and Flea that are quite alike, then the Jenner that's just a bit farther apart, then on the other end of the spectrum you have the Atlas and Victor. It's just a more gradual scale.

The other thing that might make the mechs all feel more similar is the level of detail - previously, mechs tended to be very simple looking, and their differences were apparent through the use of large, over-emphasized elements and proportions. It made the mechs look very unique, but also (in a lot of cases) quite overdone and... well, silly. Trying to make them look more believable by bringing the designs more in line with each other and adding detail ends up making them more similar both due to them no longer have quite such over-blown elements, as well as the individual details making the overall shape of the design become fuzzier and harder to make out (definitely not a bad thing, but it does result in the mechs appearing similar in a lot of places they previously didn't).

Just look at the Flea and Locust concepts - they have fairly similar basic shapes. Or at least, at first glance they do... The cockpits are similar, yet located in different positions. They both have arm weapons, but completely different ones that look nothing alike. They are chicken walkers, but with different leg and feet shapes. They are different lengths, have different antenna arrays... Looking closer at the details of the designs, they don't actually look that much alike - but similarity in overall shape helps make them feel like they both come from the same place with the same basic design principles, the Inner Sphere.

That actually brings me to the last thing I would like to point out, which is that the Clans will be coming soon. Now, we haven't seen anything from the Clans yet, but I would not be surprised if Alex will try and differentiate the basic design principles for Clan mechs from those of IS mechs. These are factions that have been separated for hundreds of years; it makes sense that the designs of one group would go one direction, while the designs of the other group went a completely different way. Making the IS feel slightly more homoginized could well do wonders for making the Clans feel unique and different from the IS, as opposed to just more of the same.

Ok, I can take this explanation. I wouldn't mind, however, seeing certain design trends from mechs designed or produced primarily by a certain house. The clans do need to have vastly different looking mechs, though,

[Sephlock]

Think of it as a stylistic choice.

[zraven7]

Sephlock, on 03 July 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Think of it as a stylistic choice.

Oh, I'm fine with the style. It's just, these three mechs looked wildly different, and now look very similar.

[hammerreborn]

Well the mech can't look too much like a Locust or yay lawsuits, and that art for the flea is holy crap I would never ever drive that.

When you start getting into the dozens of mechs, some are going to start looking similar. Only so many ways to make chicken walkers and humanoid mechs.

[Blue Footed Booby]

Butane9000, on 03 July 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

I don't know what you're talking about. All of them are unique and loads better then the old artwork.

I agree that they're all loads better than the old art, while also thinking the big boxy-chested humanoid robots are a bit samey. Granted it's hard to balance for radically different profiles. I suspect that if the highlander had to compete against, say, the king crab it'd quickly become evident why real world tanks are (relatively) low slung.

But seriously, a lot of the original battletech art is bad. Like, Paladium one-off level bad, not just in terms of design but technically as well.

[Liberator]

The new art is great, and part of the reason i even play this game, the old designs have their own "comedy goldmine" page; http://www.something...hnical-3025.php This article speaks for itself when it comes to the old designs.

I aslo like the similar style on many mechs, makes them feel uniform.

[Steelgrave]

Well of course there's gonna be a lot of similarities. We're talking about anthropomorphic or ornithoid war machines most of the time (no quadrupeds in MWO). Ones that have specific common morphologies based on the source material.

If you're expecting some crazy anime tentacle robots, you'll have to look somewhere else.

Edited by Steelgrave, 03 July 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Steelgrave, on 03 July 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

If you're expecting some crazy anime tentacle robots, you'll have to look somewhere else.

Well...shucks *kicks dirt and leaves*

[AntharPrime]

Steelgrave, on 03 July 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

If you're expecting some crazy anime tentacle robots, you'll have to look somewhere else.

That's just silly, you can't have that without a class full of teenage school girls.

[Ransack]

OP, they started to look a like to me a while ago.

Highlander looks like a taller Trebuchet, the Blackjack looks like a Jagermech and a Chataphract had a secret love child for two examples. It looks like there is a lot of copy/paste work going on. They still look good, but there is a sameness to them.

[Belorion]

You have to remember that all the old line art was two dimensional, while the new concept art is supposed to be the bases of three dimensional models.

Plus the old line art drawings didn't have to concern themselves with silly things like can this model be animated to walk properly etc. etc.

Plus when you start painting them similar then they start looking more alike. Same thing with people. Just watch an old Robert Palmer video.

[Bhael Fire]

I like the work PGI has done with the mechs. I think they managed to capture the essence of the originals, but made them look more like the "real life" versions of the cartoon versions.

Except for the Locust; While I like the design, I think they made it too bulky-looking to be the lithe and speedy mech that is the Locust.

[General Taskeen]

The Jenner looks like an orginal Jenner to me, it basically looks exactly the same, so I don't understand the fawning over that "oh so cool, pgi made jenner look cool." Ok, but it still looks like a Jenner, like the 3050 artwork. The Flea, well, it doesn't look like a Flea, its just a re-do. Maybe I can pay MC for a box on legs for later?

The Locust, well, it looks ilke someone tore off the legs and arms of a Jenner, and then put new ones on it. The original phoenix 'reboot' art for the Locust was actually pretty good.

Edited by General Taskeen, 03 July 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[Sephlock]

Steelgrave, on 03 July 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Ones that have specific common morphologies based on the source material.

If you're expecting some crazy anime tentacle robots, you'll have to look somewhere else.

EHL
OH
EHL

...

Also, the Jagermech definitely was more rounded than it is in MW:O.