132 replies to this topic

[Gamgee]

Tander09, on 17 July 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

It is soo annoying that your the last one alive on your team and your a Light so the enemy team WILL hunt you and there bunch of heavy n00bs. you run but somehow THEY CATCH UP. WHAT BULL, LIGHTS R SUPPOSED TO OUTRUN THEM!!!

Yea it ****** me off how heavies are catching up to me. If I go all speed my damage is so neutered I have no way to contribute to the fight. "Role Warfare" seems to be abandoned and languishing by the wayside. It seems they want to turn scout mechs into consumables.

[Dreamslave]

Ialdabaoth, on 10 July 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Agreed - lighter 'mechs should have weaker seismic footprints. Maybe limit the detection range to (mass) meters? So a Spider would be detectable out to 30m, and an Atlas out to 100m?

So you want the Spider and Jenner's to be even more overpowered than they already are? Why in the world would anyone want this?

Gamgee, on 17 July 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Yea it ****** me off how heavies are catching up to me. If I go all speed my damage is so neutered I have no way to contribute to the fight. "Role Warfare" seems to be abandoned and languishing by the wayside. It seems they want to turn scout mechs into consumables.

If you play a spider, the enemy can't hit you because of horrendous hit detection. If you play a Jenner, you have the ability to do absurd amounts of damage and still have crappy hit detection on your side. Spiders and Jenners are at their most OP State right now. The fact that you are complaining about failing as a light pilot is absurd and baffling to me.

[Mainhunter]

.....

Edited by Mainhunter, 18 July 2013 - 02:04 AM.

[KKRonkka]

As long as hit detection sucks when it comes to hitting light mechs, especially jump jetting ones, I say "hell no" to every attempt to give them more advantages. Still too many shots that wont cause any damage to spider that - for Christ's sake - walks towards me without even trying to evade. Jump jetting spider gets hit by 4 LL to CT and it takes only a fraction of the intended damage to its arm - seems legit.

[TexAce]

In case some didn't see it: They are nerfing seismic in the next patch. Down to 250m from 400m.

[Marcus Tanner]

Bringing seismic down to 250 will help. I suspect it's still too good.

Insidious Johnson, on 10 July 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

Does ECM affect seismic sensors? If yes, to what extent, if not... why the hell not?

Couldn't say. That's one of the things it's actually supposed to have. If they took away the target lock disruption and replaced it with seismic disruption (then took away the ECM counters) we'd have a far more healthy environment, I think. Maybe LRMs would need to get hit harder by the spam heat penalties.

Void Angel, on 10 July 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

ECM affects sensor range and C³ links, not modules directly. Since the module is literally feeling the ground go "thump," ECM wouldn't reasonably be expected to affect that.

It would affect seismic the same way it affects visual target locks: magic.

These days a cell phone has enough targeting software to recognize a human face in the frame with visual data alone, in real-time. ECM blocks LOS target locks with voodoo. Since we've crossed the Rubicon on matters of physics, I don't think ECM affectic seismic would be a big problem.

Edited by Marcus Tanner, 18 July 2013 - 07:04 AM.

[Madd Dawg]

I disagree. If you are having issue with your light mech change your strat. I have light all over me all the time and it's just as painful now as before. It's like hitting a bullet with a rocket. Hard to do no matter the sensors. I have seen a light take on 5 assults and last for 8 mins before they tagged him. He took out 1 and almost a second. A pair of lights is very dangerous. The seismic sensor are fine and I have earn them. Any new change means adjusting your strat.

[Void Angel]

I have a goldfish.

What? Oh, I thought we were listing things that did not matter. Of course changes affect tactics - that's a rather fatuous observation, in fact. The point you've totally missed is that this change made it impossible for lights to use the majority of their weapon options without getting slapped around by anyone with a seismic sensor. I don't doubt that you've seen a bunch of assaults fail to kill a light - but no light survives for "8 minutes" alone against 5 assaults unless those assault pilots are bad shots.

There is a separate issue with hit detection right now, but that issue does not change the fact that Mister Seismic as originally implemented was too powerful, both as a scouting tool (e.g. risk-free tunnel scouting) and as a counter to lights' mobility (i.e. the primary reason to play a light chassis.) PGI's internal testing and the majority of player feedback agrees with me - which is why the module is being changed.

Telling lights to "change your strat," when we can't get within 400m without being swatted is like taking out all the counters to ECM and then telling LRM users to "learn to play." Mister Seismic was not fine, and you didn't "earn" the right to deny an entire playstyle to lights any more than lights have "earned" their buggy hitboxes.

Edited by Void Angel, 18 July 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[ZonbiBadger]

Void Angel, on 10 July 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Much of what I'm about to say was pointed out in the initial feedback poll for the Seismic Sensor, but while it's not my intention to merely rehash old discussions, I do feel that a discussion of how Seismic Sensors affect the game now is useful. Now that the dust has settled, as it were, and I'm starting to see the module more often, I can give more comprehensive feedback - and collect other people's opinions as well.

My experience with the sensor boils down to this: With my Atlas, it's a powerful situational awareness tool which allows me to keep tabs on people trying to get into my rear arc. I can see if people are sneaking up on me, or trying to sneak past me for a base cap - or if I'm about to lumber around a corner and into their entire team. It's a fun, and very useful, module.

With my Spider, the Seismic Sensor is a pestilence from heaven, sent down to punish me for my wickedness in choosing a light Battlemech. In combat, being mobile and unpredictable is a large part of what the Spider does. I don't have as many hardpoints as other lights, but I'm very quick and agile. Against anyone with a Seismic sensor, however, I'm always visible - they can see me through walls, they can see me through solid rock... they don't have to play the "which way did the Spider go" game: they know exactly where I am. Sure, I could stand still and disappear from the sensor, but standing still like that is very dangerous for a light - and as soon as I move again, he's got me. Playing against an opponent using this module feels very punishing at times. It's like reverse-ECM, but there's no counter.

The Seismic Sensor is a fun and very useful module - probably the most useful module for any brawler or scout to have. But the range and utility of the module hits lights very hard - and at a time where I understand that many players feel light, fast 'mechs are going the way of the Dodo.

Does anyone else find it frustrating to fight opponents using the Seismic Sensor?

:,(

ZonbiBadger, on 18 July 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

:,(

Hey! Hey! You can use it too!

[Nryrony]

I have experienced both sides with the module, however I usually drive a Stalker/Catapult or my Jenner.

From a lights mechs perspectiv the s-sensor is a gift an a curse.
- It helps you avoid the enemy main ball, so its reduces the number of bad surprises. (-> Woops main ball AC 20 / PPC = instant death)
- It also lets me do a better job at scouting the enemy linse, since I can scout indirect and therefore aviod more "surprises".

- Light mechs only have a fair chance of killing an enemy 1 on 1 or while backstabbing. Backstabbing is what makes mit 6xmed laser jenner so much fun. If you can sneak behind a mech, you can do real dmg. If the enemy is solo and depending on his reaction/weapon setup you might have a good chance at killing him. This however only works if he doesn't notice you until its too late. With an optimum range of 270 on my med lasers and even after this nerf, its the ultimate counter to lights.

Note that the jenner doesn't have the luxery of ECM, so sneaking behind is even more difficult.

- For my Stalker/Cat, it helps me keeping an overview of the world around me. It defenetly helps vs backstabbing, yet I don't think its much needed. - Because you you walk alone you should be able to deal with a light mech on your own. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't be alone at the first place.


Note that this module will usually alert the complet ball of mechs, so you are a light mech "passing by" or sneaking behind one of them, all will welcome you with thier "heat generators" and your done.


In my opinion light mechs defnetly need this module, at 400+ range. For bigger mechs its a nice addition, but its not a requirement - its a very strong counter to any light mech.

So maybe this module should be exclusive to lights - or an addition to BAP -> for lights and some other limited desinges (like ECM).

[Nryrony]

Lykaon, on 17 July 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

Trust me it's even harder to deal with if you pilot a light mech that actually takes damage regularly.

I have all but forsaken my Raven and Jenner simply because the Spider has what feels like 20 tons of armor and a force field.

I feel the same way. however, I don't think its all about hit detection and "force field" - just look at the Spiders hitzones and its size. Its extremly difficult to deliver focused dmg to a specific part of the mech. You will usually hit all three parts of the torso and usualy an arm or a leg. So in addtion to the difficulty to actualy hit him, you will nearly always spread you dmg. Same deal with the Raven, however hes much bigger.

A Jenner consits to 90% of center torso, he basicly has no side torso and even you you wanted to hit the arms its almost impossible. So as a Jenner you will take much more focused dmg, thanks to the hit detection even dmg from behind will usually be counted as front dmg - a blessing and a curse.

[Void Angel]

Nryrony, on 18 July 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

I feel the same way. however, I don't think its all about hit detection and "force field" - just look at the Spiders hitzones and its size. Its extremly difficult to deliver focused dmg to a specific part of the mech. You will usually hit all three parts of the torso and usualy an arm or a leg. So in addtion to the difficulty to actualy hit him, you will nearly always spread you dmg. Same deal with the Raven, however hes much bigger.

A Jenner consits to 90% of center torso, he basicly has no side torso and even you you wanted to hit the arms its almost impossible. So as a Jenner you will take much more focused dmg, thanks to the hit detection even dmg from behind will usually be counted as front dmg - a blessing and a curse.

Eh, I've had mixed results trying to kill Jenners lately. If it was really 90% CT on the hitboxes, I wouldn't hate fighting one with my Hunchback. As it is, I strongly suspect that all lights are having problems with taking damage like they should. I've seen Ravens, Jenners, Commandos, and Spiders simply shrug off concentrated laser fire - it's hard to tell whether some of the damage is being lost, or if it's just spreading around their hit locations, but my screen shows me hitting the same location, and the damage done seems sub-par. Even if I'm only getting 80% damage on those four medium lasers, I should strip around half of his armor; if I only get three out of five tics on target, that's still a third. In actual practice, however, I don't see those kind of results - and I'm only referring to solid hits, not high-deflection shots where my laser-strike is panning all across his chassis.

[DYSEQTA]

redlance, on 10 July 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

the seismic module does a few things to the game for me (a scout)....snipped well considered stuff

I agree with pretty much all of that. I use the SS because it's just so effective. However, to be honest it is too effective right now.

I like the ideas of having effective range vary by weight class and would add to that by saying I think that mechs outside the range of their weight class, but inside the max range, should perhaps cause fleeting phantom "hits" on the sensor which could induce some confusion as to where mechs are at any given time. In my opinion that would not ruin the sensor's use but would make it less than the God Mode of situational awareness.