261 replies to this topic

[DamoclesVII]

I respect the OP's desire to keep the game balanced and his well thought out approach. But I, for one, would lose every single bit of interest and hope I have for this game were his ideas to be implemented.
It reminds me of Brad McQuiad. So focused on the vision that fun is set aside.

Edited by DamoclesVII, 10 June 2012 - 12:52 PM.

[BuSH]

WORST THREAD MADE ON HERE TO DATE.

[Orion Pirate]

Thomas Hogarth, on 10 June 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Let's standardize the TT experience. What standardization rules are available to everyone is on the same page? You guessed it, Tournament rules - the most-used set of rules in TT. These explicitly do not allow customs. So really, your BT experience is different than most peoples.

Immersion is the best thing to encourage in any game. Every 'Mech being a super-custom job breaks immersion for people who know the lore. Most 'Mechs being canon encourages immersion for those that know the lore, and does not break immersion for those that do not.

Your logic is sound. Thank you for the fresh air. I never played tournament rules, so I am unaware of being locked in to TRO mechs. I always saw customization as standard for the game, and I still do. But your points are sound. The mechlab is there to allow the customization people want, and to offer variety to a game that would get old quickly without it. Since I liked to make my own mechs to play with, I see the mechlab as a natural extension of the BT Universe.

[BuSH]

I re-read this guys thread.

You're either the biggest troll ever, you sucked at mech 4, or you're a total buzzkill in life in general.

I mean really guy?

You haven't even played the game and you "know" what it's going to be like? LULZ

Don't post anymore. This was a total waste of my time.

[phelancracken]

Canon mechs are what they are. I have quite a few that are my favorites and play them regularly when I play TT. However, the mechlab is something that allows people to change designs to what works for them better. Say they do long distance raiding where resupply is not really an option. Why would you take ammo dependent mechs on such missions? A mech that uses streak is one item I don't mind as much. At least your not wasting ammo. But still, if someone finds they don't care for ammo mechs or certain types of weapons, they should have the ability to customize.

[Sleeping Bear]

Not a good idea nixxing mechlab. If it was removed, this game would degenerate into World of Tanks, where everyone would be working their *** off to get into the best machine possible. Having mechlab allows players to customize a 'mech into a form that would tailor their gameplay or just plainly into something they like. I'm gonna just say it now, there will a ton of combat ineffective 'mechs running around, not because the player wants to supposedly suck, but because that is what the player wants to run. A player enjoying himself with his 'mech design is not something to discount offhand. You will probably scoff at this idea, but I wouldn't mind running around with a totally whacky and off the wall design just because I CAN.

[Team Leader]

Frostiken, on 10 June 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Someone might find it useful, but with a more limited mechlab, you start to ensure that people will find it useful, which means more variety overall and more potential money for PGI.

Forcing people to use a handful of canon mechs, instead of letting them design their own, doesn't seem like "variety" to me...

[Orion Pirate]

As for custom IS mech being no different then a Clan Omnimech... Technically you would be correct, in the most strict definition of rules.

But an Omnimech is a canon mech, designed to do a specific deed. Change it's weapon loadouts in a modern by the needs of the mission way.

A player built custom IS mech, is just an IS mech that was not recognized in a TRO, it does not make in an Omnimech because you put whatever weapons you wanted in it.

I believe for MWO the defining difference from an IS mech and a Omnimech in the mechlab will be hardpoints. But this has been mentioned already many times in this thread...

[UncleKulikov]

Thomas Hogarth, on 10 June 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Let's standardize the TT experience. What standardization rules are available to everyone is on the same page? You guessed it, Tournament rules - the most-used set of rules in TT. These explicitly do not allow customs. So really, your BT experience is different than most peoples.



Immersion is the best thing to encourage in any game. Every 'Mech being a super-custom job breaks immersion for people who know the lore. Most 'Mechs being canon encourages immersion for those that know the lore, and does not break immersion for those that do not.



See above: If they don't care about canon, they won't miss the mechlab. What difference will it even make to them?




Again, non-canon players won't know the difference. They won't care one way or the other.

How is that so bad?

I disagree that custom mechs dissolve immersion. The number of people who know each mech default loadout AND who would be bothered by that loadout being altered is minuscule compared to the amount of people who will enjoy being able to customize their machines to suit their playstyles.

Its strange to me how you think that players being stripped of options in the interest of preserving (get this - not 'canon', since the mech custom rules are in every rulebook but) tabletop tournament play "immersion".

Your declaration that non-canon players "won't care" that they can't adjust their mechs according to the precedent of tabletop in addition to every mechwarrior game is flawed.

Edited by UncleKulikov, 10 June 2012 - 01:17 PM.

[BuSH]

UncleKulikov, on 10 June 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

I disagree that custom mechs dissolve immersion. The number of people who know each mech default loadout AND who would be bothered by that loadout being altered is minuscule compared to the amount of people who will enjoy being able to customize their machines to suit their playstyles.

Its strange to me how you think that players being stripped of options in the interest of preserving (get this - not 'canon', since the mech custom rules are in every rulebook but) tabletop tournament play "immersion".

Your declaration that non-canon players "won't care" that they can't adjust their mechs according to the precedent of tabletop in addition to every mechwarrior game is flawed.

Nothing more needs to be said.

This topic is based on the opinion of someone who makes up less than 1% of the gaming community.

[Shredhead]

Wow. I just read 4 pages of this (the first three and the last), and it's ridiculous how many of you didn't even read the whole OP!
So, tell me please where the OP suggests the mech lab to be completely cancelled? I guess 75% of the posts in here are complete BS. BS like in BuSH for example...

Well I only disagree with the OP in having to pay for the swapout of components before you could test them. Everything else I support.
Make it expensive and restrict the possible changes, so it feels like you really achieved something and have maxed out your mech of choice.
Everyone else I recommend to visit the MWO thread of /vg/ for some interesting insight to read.

[Saren21]

I think maybe we are counting our chickens before they have hatched. As of right now we only have a few videos and dev chats explaining the basics to us about mech lab. A lot of posts in this thread had made assumptions about what they perceive the mech lab turning in to or what it already is. I think that it would be prudent of ALL of us to wait until we have played the game in beta open or founders or even launch day to really say if mech lab is broken or not.

[Scipio Nostra]

Anyone who played MC1 probably has an idea where th topic starter is coming from. And I agree. BT is NOT about customizing your mech like there is no tomorrow. Customization is one of the big advantages the Omnis have compared to battle mechs. I dont wanna see Huchbacks running 6/9 and wielding like 10 or more med lasers. This is just stupid. But should this be possible I am gonna jump the wagon and do the same ****.

On one thing I have to disagree with the topic starter: Omnis can also swap their weapon modules in the torso (Timberwolf, Cauldron-Born to name two out of my head)

[CG Chicken Kn]

The OP wants less customization? Mechassault is that way------------>
I not only spent hours in the mechlab but hours per day. Getting the best config for my playstyle and optimal for what I was doing with it. Optimal for the limitations of the daily posted league battle. Tested for hours to find weaknesses. Had literally hundreds of configs saved in every single weight class. Not having cookie cutter fights is one of the biggest appeals Mech had. Why you would want to limit this is beyond me.

[Supremacist]

Let this be the final post in a horrible thread

[ CASH ]
Wrong, never has any customization program ever charged you for the actual change you want to make, its always cost you to simply purchase those other items and the change itself is free.
So there IS a cost to using the mechlab

[ HARDPOINTS ]
Wrong again, the hardpoints already limit what you are able to do, you cant put 3 PPCs where ONE small laser use to be. Since this point is the base of your argument, the rest of your essay was for nothing.

[ ELECTRONICS HARDPOINTS ]
Some of the comments from the devs have said some mechs have an ability to equip certain equipment, others do not. Generally speaking they implied only some light mechs and a few medium mechs will be able to equip it.

[ HARDWARE LIMITS ]
Similar restrictions are in place here that exist in the hardpoints section.
You MIGHT be able to equip that better engine, but its gonna cost you half your armor. I dont see a problem with this. You could make a scout that will truly only be used as a scout, stay out of range, get intel, and run off

[ TECHNOLOGY ]
This is some of the wildest speculation youve made and is completely something no one can comment on.

[ TIME LIMITS ]
This is just hilarious. Now youve gone from limiting something you dont like, to outright making it frustrating for people to do something you dont like. Are you a Republican by chance?

[phelancracken]

Shredhead,

the OP is saying that you can exchange a small laser for a trio of ERLLs. Now that's not going to happen in any released form of BT. I don't care if it's TT or any of the released MW series. Crits, tonnage and hardpoints depending on the system preclude that. I am refraining from saying MWO won't due to it's not being live but common sense would say they won't do that. It would be soo broken it wouldn't be funny. Until it goes live, we don't know how Mechlab is going to work for sure.

[Kazumi]

I think that's silly.

Honestly, I'm drawn into the game for it's ability to customize. I'm tired of cookie cutter gameplay. I want to join a group of folks and build mechs that suite our gameplay. I don't want to play with the "same" 6 mechs every single time. That's boring. Mech warrior has always (Minus mech assault) been about creating a mech that suites your style.

Limiting what we can do will only harm the game, and charging C-bills just to customize would also hurt the game. Players want to tinker around with settings. Paying $2 to move some parts around would be stupid as I"m the type to adjust a build 10-20 times to find that optimal setting.

So I'm glad that won't happen. The game is well past the point of them changing to this silly idea.

[BuSH]

Shredhead, on 10 June 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

Wow. I just read 4 pages of this (the first three and the last), and it's ridiculous how many of you didn't even read the whole OP!
So, tell me please where the OP suggests the mech lab to be completely cancelled? I guess 75% of the posts in here are complete BS. BS like in BuSH for example...

Well I only disagree with the OP in having to pay for the swapout of components before you could test them. Everything else I support.
Make it expensive and restrict the possible changes, so it feels like you really achieved something and have maxed out your mech of choice.
Everyone else I recommend to visit the MWO thread of /vg/ for some interesting insight to read.

Anyone who wants to limit the game like the OP shouldn't play it.

It's pathetic.

As per my post? The OP is a tool for his proposals and as are you for supporting it.

[Anixantheas]

Hawkeye 72, on 10 June 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Does mean we get canon birds with spears? I want one of those!


There will always be canon deviations. And you even said yourself that you want the devs to have a successful game! So why go against/restrict a feature a lot of people will want?

You are an evil, evil man,

As for my $.02, do agree with the whole "costs you a few C-bills to swap things around".
This is mostly becuase I do not want to see a centurian and a Hunchback toting the same loadout, it just seems wrong.
As a Business model, a C-bill sink, even a tiny one, is a good thing. "forcing" people to get a different "laser friendly chasis" is a good thing.
I'm not talking about breaking the bank, or $50 a new chasis, but something that forces the player to actually invest in thier mech sounds , to me, like a good thing.
All to often I get into a mmo, only to have several billion gold/credits by lvl 50, with nothing really to spend on except everyone's overpriced AH crap. Makes everthing feel cheaper.
A mech that took me a while to get, customize, and planout, yeah that is something to be proud of. But not just yanking my lasers from one mech and adding them to another (unless it is omni, then I'm all for swapping things willy nilly)

[RG Notch]

pesco, on 10 June 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Happy to see this topic come up again, as I've made a similar suggestion before. Thanks Frostiken for taking the time to make such a nice write-up.

As far as I see it, the core worries here are:
* Customization will blur out the differences between chassis. Looking at a Mech becomes meaningless.
* How special is your Mech when everyone has a special Mech?
* Customization will make the stock variants vanish, because they're not focused enough.
* Once customization has been free, you can't easily change that. This is a conceptual issue, not something to tweak some time later.

Nobody says one shouldn't customize. But the big picture is that unless there is a deterrent to it, the above are likely results.

The real issue is a lot of people don't want those things deterred. None of your bullet points concerns me in the least and judging by this thread I'm not the only one.