9 replies to this topic

[Felio]

Because I thought it was the former, but maybe I'm the only person with this belief. PGI certainly doesn't seem to share it.

It doesn't make much difference to me whether someone is using four of the same big gun or four different big guns. The end result is still getting one-shot-killed or having to play very gingerly for the rest of the match, sometimes after the first shot fired, and often without doing anything wrong.

[PEEFsmash]

Other. Brawlers are too weak, and mechanics like Seismic hurt brawlers even more.

[MustrumRidcully]

This is a game balance thread, so the major problem is the damage spike. It doesn't require boating, but boating is the easiest way to get it. And in fact, not just simply boating. Boating ballistics and PPCs.
Lasers "spikes" take 0.5 to 1 second to be delivered, which leaves a lot of room for error.

Beyond that, the other reason to boats are:
1) Range Specialization. As a general rule, specialization works, no matter what the fictional battletech engineers responsible for table top stocks thought.
2) Identical recycle times and projectile characteristics (projectiles with different speeds, beams) make weapon handling easy.
I don't think you can deal with 1), but you can tweak weapon stats for 2) so that there are at least more non-identical weapon mix options.
For example: a Large Pulse Laser might fire every 1.5 seconds for 0.5 seconds (with a different damage than now per shot, of course), and a Medium Laser every 3 seconds for 1 second, then these two weapons could be synced up in their weapon recycling times. LPL+ML => LPL => LPL + ML. That creates a good synergy, and if you're on a mech that can only carry two LPLs effectively but might still be able to squeeze an ML in, this would be an interesting option.

Create more such potential combinations, and maybe you'll never see an LRM5 + PPC + MPL + 2 SL + 2SRM4, but you might get a mech with 2-4 different weapons.



If this was the mech aesthetics look, everyone using boats is a bit boring. But the primary reason, other than a fanatical devotion to symmetry, is that it provides great advantages for the boating player to do just that.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 11 July 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[Corpsecandle]

I played around with a 4ppc 'phract for a and out of habbit I grouped 2 ppcs in weapons group 1, and 2 ppcs in weapons group 2. I found I was just as successful firing the weapons groups in quick succession as I was in alpha striking...often more successful because the extra control over my heat would keep me from accidentally shutting down and allowing someone else to pick me off.

I'm personally on the convergence boat. I know that there's supposed to be some system in the game that allows for a convergence lag, but frankly convergence happens too quickly right now.

[Homeless Bill]

Damage spike. Boating is Canon and was balanced with TT rules. Perfect convergence ***** that up. I don't like affecting accuracy, but at a certain pinpoint damage potential, it's needed.

[skullman86]

I'd say they are close to equal importance with maybe a little lean towards damage spikes. Boating is canon and it is balanced by TT rules (as stated by Homeless Bill), but out of all the boats/alpha builds we have right now, not a single one of them was intended for that role...they go against the spirit of the game IMO.

[Moogy]

Hard point force players to make load-outs.
We all want the biggest bang on our mech... with the hard points that are allocated.
Also player style to take into consideration...

A AC20 player... does not play the same as a LRM20 player..

[Lysander Voidrunner]

The way they grouped LLs with PPCs is kind of a head scratcher. PPCs are instant pinpoint max damage, if it hits, lasers, unless the target is stationary, are never going to do the same kind of damage and on top of that, they need to be constantly kept in the same spot, which is hard to do on a mouving target, so doing max damage with LLs is improbable at best and it takes at least some skill to weild them properly.

[Ralgas]

MustrumRidcully, on 11 July 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

This is a game balance thread, so the major problem is the damage spike. It doesn't require boating, but boating is the easiest way to get it. And in fact, not just simply boating. Boating ballistics and PPCs.
Lasers "spikes" take 0.5 to 1 second to be delivered, which leaves a lot of room for error.

Beyond that, the other reason to boats are:
1) Range Specialization. As a general rule, specialization works, no matter what the fictional battletech engineers responsible for table top stocks thought.
2) Identical recycle times and projectile characteristics (projectiles with different speeds, beams) make weapon handling easy.
I don't think you can deal with 1), but you can tweak weapon stats for 2) so that there are at least more non-identical weapon mix options.
For example: a Large Pulse Laser might fire every 1.5 seconds for 0.5 seconds (with a different damage than now per shot, of course), and a Medium Laser every 3 seconds for 1 second, then these two weapons could be synced up in their weapon recycling times. LPL+ML => LPL => LPL + ML. That creates a good synergy, and if you're on a mech that can only carry two LPLs effectively but might still be able to squeeze an ML in, this would be an interesting option.

Create more such potential combinations, and maybe you'll never see an LRM5 + PPC + MPL + 2 SL + 2SRM4, but you might get a mech with 2-4 different weapons.



If this was the mech aesthetics look, everyone using boats is a bit boring. But the primary reason, other than a fanatical devotion to symmetry, is that it provides great advantages for the boating player to do just that.

with regard to range specialization, as much as i'm going to get beaten to death for this, the new system (while certainly needing work on what it is in the command post) goes aways towards doing just that.

Moogy, on 11 July 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Hard point force players to make load-outs.
We all want the biggest bang on our mech... with the hard points that are allocated.
Also player style to take into consideration...

A AC20 player... does not play the same as a LRM20 player..

just means alpa builds get limited to a couple of variants, rather than weapon combinations as we have now, although it may maker the aws worth driving!!

Edit: oh and the dual gauss jagger is a cannon variant too, so we'd end up there

Edited by Ralgas, 11 July 2013 - 05:47 PM.

[Egomane]

Please use the official feedback thread for the discussion of the upcomming heatscale changes.

http://mwomercs.com/...pdate-feedback/

Thies thread is now closed!