14 replies to this topic

[Mapekz]

I'm looking for a mech most similar to a Wolf Assault Ship from EVE Online. The goal is to be able to out maneuver your opponent but still be able to take a decent beating while fighting at short to medium range. I do also want to use ACs (machine guns one day...) as SRMs alone aren't that fun to use.

I've played a CN9A (STD200) but it plays as a decently slow missilebot who just doesn't die and a DRG1C (XL325) but that's very squishy and only seems to work well as a mini-sniper.

Ideally something a CN9D would be able to fit the bill assuming I keep the arm intact but I honestly cannot say for sure without trying it out first.

Any recommendations? Thank you in advance.

Edited by Mapekz, 11 July 2013 - 07:58 PM.

[heleqin]

you can always try the 50 ton trebuchet TBT-7K, it has 2 ballistic slots in the left torso, 2 energy in the right torso and 2 missile slots in the right arm (only 2 tubes though). i run mine as a quasi-sniper, 1 ac5, 1 er ppc and 2 ssrm2. there's also a popular build with 1 er-ppc and 1 gauss, for sniping, but you can also run it as flanker with 2 ac5 or UAC5, a couple ssrm2 and some smaller lasers. its fast, can fit up to a 325 engine, though trebs are tall, and the K does not have jump jets

[Drakari]

I personally love my Blackjacks; they've got a touch less armor than Trebuchets and can't fit as much weight, but they're also very small, cheap and have good hardpoints. The BJ-1 can mount dual ACs from /2 to U/5, and some theoretical builds up to dual AC/20s (though I would recommend only one if you insist on the AC/20). Depending on how much weight you dedicated to ammo, it can also mount lasers to help deal with pesky lights (right now they're really hard to hit with ACs). The BJ-1DC trades the jump jets for additional energy hardpoints, and I can say for sure that those 4 energy weapons right on the torso are really nicely clustered. The -1X is a pretty good light-hunter, with increased max speed and only energy hardpoints, while the -3 is the -1 except with only energy hardpoints.

All that said, the Blackjack really CANNOT take much of a beating, especially with PPCs the way they are until next Tuesday. I actually might recommend the Jagermech, specifically the JM6-DD. It's a heavier mech but it can reach over 80kmph with speed tweak and has the absolute largest ballistic capability of any mech (which means that it's pretty difficult to match its theoretical DPS). It's got plenty of armor and space for any ballistic build you can imagine. The JM6-A drops some ballistic hardpoints for missiles, the JM6-S and Firebrand drop some for more energy weapons.

It really depends on exactly what proportions you want "maneuverable", "survivable", and "powerful". The Blackjack can pretty safely use an XL engine, which allows for high armor, heavy weapons, and decent speed all at once, but none of them to the extent of some other mechs which can offer two of the three to a significantly stronger degree with a modest drop in the other.

[Revorn]

YLW, AC20 and decent 107 kp/h should do it.


Edit: If you like some Range, the CN9-D with 2 AC5 could be a choice as well.

Edited by Revorn, 12 July 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

you could try a cataphract.

i notice the ship you referenced to in eve is a frigate.

a frigate would be 2nd to biggest, or in this case a heavy mech, cataphract is good enough for flank attacks with ballistics, pretty good at that i would say.



if that\s too big for you then try a hunchback woth the ballistic hunch with dual UXAC5,
its nearly as tough as the centurion, a bit smaller and the ballistic is good for hitting people from the sidelines.
good speed too!!

Edited by Mazzyplz, 12 July 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[Qrbaza]

Another one who wants it all in one package. This isnt EVE. Here you choose between speed, armor and damage. You cant have all in one. Mediums are most ****** class in the game thats why i play hunchback so the game gets little more difficult. If you want to tank go with heavy or assault since they can have similar speed and torso traverse as mediums (not to mention they have similar hitbox sizes). They have more firepower and armor. For speed you need XL engine but if someone destroy your left or right torso you die. Choose what fits your playstyle and forget about all in one package...

[Random Incarnate]

Let's start first off, EVE doesn't give you all in one, the Wolf in particular is fast and durable, but only within its weight class. It'll get eaten by something dedicated to killing it, but can be a pain in the arse for anything bigger. And the Frigate class is the smallest.

The 'mech you're looking for, however, is a Cataphract, Hunchback or Centurion. Blackjack has the speed you need, too.

CTF-3D:

340XL (86.6km/h with speed tweak), 4MLs, 2*UAC5, 384 armour.

HBK-4G

250 STD (89.1km/h with speed tweak), 3 MLs, AC20, 322 armour.

The HBK has the murder potential you need, people make a mistake of not paying attention to you...

[Wraithguard]

Cataphract. An Ilya Muromets packs decent firepower. I don't remember what my roommate runs, but he routinely comes out with over 600-700 damage.

[Mapekz]

@heleqin

I've been looking into Trebs a bit. I feel they are somewhat thin (at least compared to my Dragon) so combined with speed they should be harder to hit if they remain moving, yes? I don't think they are nearly as easy to core either.


@Drakari

In EVE at least, the smaller ships rely more on constant movement and close range to make it impossible for large battleships and cruisers to lock onto them with their weapons. Think Jenners/Ravens/Spiders constantly running circles around you and being a pain in the butt to lock onto. Even then, because it is an FPS, you can still rely on raw skill instead of mere RPG stats and dice rolls so these light mechs go bye bye the second you leg them.

I'm looking to sacrifice some of that speed for more firepower and tankiness. I don't expect to 1on1 the most optimally built heavies or the worst built assaults by any means but I do hope to be fast enough to run away from them and find a more fitting target until the heavier guys have been softened up by my team.

I'll go watch some Jagermech/Blackjack videos to get more a feel for these chassis.


@Revorn

The reason the CN9-D popped up is because of the playstyle (and even weapon choices) depicted here:


To be able to pull that off would be awesome but I'm not sure how possible it is now; this video is from five months ago.

I'm split on the Yen Lo Wang but I've definitely considered it. However I don't feel comfortable just yet buying a Hero mech until I'm more vested in this game as I've just started last week.


@Mazzyplz

The base Frigate is the smallest technically, but then it goes down either the Interceptor or the Assault Ship paths (or you can upgrade to a Destroyer/Cruiser/Battleship/etc).

To me the Interceptors of MWO are the light mechs, specifically the Jenner and Raven based off what they've done to me. They are great assassins and cannot be outmaneuvered by anyone while providing great scouting duties.

The Assault Ships, however, are slower but more durable and more ballistics-oriented versions of this class, sacrificing assassination and scouting ability for more of a 'brawler' playstyle that preoccupies an enemy so that teammates can land missile salvos on this distracted foe.

I'll research more about Cataphracts; I was under the impression there were just LRM silos as I keep confusing them with Catapults. I'm wary of Hunchbacks; except for maybe the 4SP which isn't even a ballistics-friendly mech, aren't they all completely useless if you nuke their hunch?


@Qrbaza

I was speaking in terms relative to the two mechs I've played. When I say take a beating, I don't mean at the level of an Atlas, just somewhere between my CN9A (too much) and DRG1C (nonexistent). When I say speed/maneuverability, I don't want to be as unhittable as a Jenner, just more so than my DRG1C with its protruding center torso (torso twisting this guy to protect your CT basically means exposing your rear). When I mean firepower, I mean a more ballistics-focused variant of either of the mechs because I'm happy with the damage levels they currently put out.


@Random Incarnate

People like to pay attention to me when I'm on my Centurion. Is it different as a Centurion vs HBK (because the Centurion is much bigger) or is that just due to poor piloting on my part? Maybe the non-upgraded 200 STD is also holding me back since I move slower than molasses.


A lot of you have mentioned the Cataphract: how is its turn speed and fragility compared to a Dragon?

Edited by Mapekz, 14 July 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[heleqin]

Mapekz, on 14 July 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

@heleqin

I've been looking into Trebs a bit. I feel they are somewhat thin (at least compared to my Dragon) so combined with speed they should be harder to hit if they remain moving, yes? I don't think they are nearly as easy to core either.

A lot of you have mentioned the Cataphract: how is its turn speed and fragility compared to a Dragon?

trebs, while big for a medium, are much harder to core out than a dragon. i prefer the centurions to the trebs, but its mostly just personal preference, both are good at what they do.

the cataphract is bigger than the dragon, much less fragile, is a pretty good choice for what you're looking for if you want to move up to the heavies, at 70 tons, they're currently the top end of the heavies. they are, hoewver, built a little bit like a barn door, and are relatively easy to core out center or side torso, but they can mount decently large engines (except for the 4x) and have decent hardpoints emphasizing energy and ballistic weapons, though you are mixing them up with the missile heavy catapults. i don't think you'll find them as agile as the dragons, but they are marginally better at survival, and can mount much heavier weapons loadouts.

[Drakari]

Mapekz, on 14 July 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

@Drakari

In EVE at least, the smaller ships rely more on constant movement and close range to make it impossible for large battleships and cruisers to lock onto them with their weapons. Think Jenners/Ravens/Spiders constantly running circles around you and being a pain in the butt to lock onto. Even then, because it is an FPS, you can still rely on raw skill instead of mere RPG stats and dice rolls so these light mechs go bye bye the second you leg them.

I'm looking to sacrifice some of that speed for more firepower and tankiness. I don't expect to 1on1 the most optimally built heavies or the worst built assaults by any means but I do hope to be fast enough to run away from them and find a more fitting target until the heavier guys have been softened up by my team.

I'll go watch some Jagermech/Blackjack videos to get more a feel for these chassis.

Hmmm... Well, I have been able to solo pretty terrible PPC stacking assaults before in my Blackjack, but I can't guarantee their ability to run away. Most heavies and some of the Hero variant Assaults can get within 10 kph of the ballistics-capable Blackjacks, some of those even with Jumpjets.

That said, most heavies and assaults DON'T spend their weight on engines large enough to catch up to a fleeing medium, and those that do will either lack weaponry or armor and are a lot less agile than the equal speeds may suggest. I think that it's pretty likely that a well-made Blackjack build with proper piloting should be able to either take out a heavier mech that sacrificed weaponry for speed, or escape from one that didn't. That said, trying to take on multiple opponents is complete suicide, and you will benefit from sticking near teammates even if you still end up getting shot at.

The Jager is more likely to stand and fight; it can reach significant speed with the right build, but there's too much mass to maneuver well and too much size to miss. It can out-DPS most things with heavy ballistic loadouts though, and has enough armor to keep sustained fire or endure through a long cooldown. Not enough to go toe-to-toe with an equally specialized assault, but those are uncommon.

[bowlie]

CN - D.

I love it.

The arm getting blown off happens occasionally, but its not a huge issue and less so if your good at firing across yourself and torso twisting. I have the XL 275 I think, it goes a nice spritely 98km/h to get around the back of people and start firing its AC10 into them.

I tried the AL, but I found the AC10 is the premiere weapon for this mech because you can line it up and fire and twist back while moving much easier than you can keep it centered on someone constantly for AC2's while moving. Incidentally, my AL build with 2AC2's was good, and I used it in a fire support role for a mates Jager. It didnt work as well as a brawler

[Stomp]

Honestly without buying a Yen Lo Wang, you're going to want either the Hunchback 4G, or a Hunchback 4H. Second choices in terms of speed are going to be a Centurion D, and a Trebuchet 7K.

Why I recommend the Hunchback 4G:
FIRSTLY, because they can mount an AC/20, the LARGEST ballistic weapon in Mechwarrior and Battletech, excluding future tech like the Hyper Assault Gauss 40. These mechs serve as fire support and harassers on their larger enemies, popping around corners to catch an unsuspecting Cataphract in the mouth with a ballistic punch. Protecting your hunch is priority number one for a Hunchback pilot; I own the 4G Founder's variant, and I usually move parallel to a large force of heavies/assaults, punching holes in a mech from around the corner while the main force moves to engage. A Hunchback 4G with 1 AC/20 + 3 tons of ammo (21 shots) and 3 Medium Lasers can mount a Standard 250 engine, moving your Hunchback at 81 kph, or 89.1 kph with speed tweak. It's not the fastest, but neither is it the slowest. It can outflank Atlases and Stalkers, but keep away from their Heavy guards, harassing and falling back to their own team quickly. The variant doesn't matter so much, most Hunchies are similar, the Hunchback 4H has more energy hardpoints, and a smaller ballistic, which isn't really my style, the extra energy hardpoints are in it's torso, which takes away slots for your AC/20 haha. Giving your gun time to reload it's payload is critical; hitting with even 10 of the 21 shots at optimal ranges means you'll do 200 damage from your AC/20 alone, which is why committing more tonnage for ammo is silly. Aim carefully, and engage in an intelligent manner, and you will witness the destruction of many opponents. Also, being able to mount that large of an engine ensures that aiming on lighter mechs is easier, bringing an AC/20 to bear on a Jenner or Raven is Death, ensuring a nasty surprise for the careless Raven pilot.

Why I recommend the Centurion 9D: The CN9-D is the most useful variant for harassing; the A has 1 more missile hardpoint, at the expense of a much smaller engine rating; this means the CN9-D will usually be much faster than it's cousin. My favorite build in a Cent D is an AC/5 with a single ton of ammo (30 shots), considering that your arm will not last nearly as long. Also mounted is 2 Medium Lasers and 2 streak SRM 2s with a single ton of Streak ammo: since they're not very many volleys, you get 25 volleys with the Streak 2s with the single ton of ammo, but again this mech is built to harass, you will almost never go through the entire ton. With the rest of the tonnage you mount Beagle Active Probe to cancel any scout's ECM, allowing you to bring your streaks onto the light mech, and a Standard 275 engine, moving your Centurion at 89.1 kph, or 98 kph with speed tweak. Scare the lights away with streaks, and allow yourself to engage heavies and assaults with your ballistic arm. Use cover and advance with another medium, and you should be fine. Standard Engine Centurions end up living forever, so don't be surprised when you end up living for the entire match with nothing but your Medium Lasers; a note of caution: Your huge side torsos deter using an XL engine, you'll get it shot off quite fast. Be sure to play safe, and this mech will end up living forever.

Why I recommend the Trebuchet 7K: This medium is a fast mech with redeemable qualities... I'm sure. But I've owned one forever, and the synergy between it's stock weapons is really poor. Your hard hitting weapons are ALL mounted on your torso, meaning that engaging smaller mechs is more difficult to bring your weapons to bear; that said it's much easier to bring it onto heavier targets, which is why I mounted a Gauss Rifle and an ER PPC onto mine and ran it as a sniper. It's not a flanker, but a torso ballistic means the possibility of mounting an AC/20, which is always something! 1 AC/20, 2 Medium Lasers, except all in the torsos. In fact, the only hardpoints on your arms are two missiles, but with the state of SRMs right now you're better bringing streaks, and guaranteeing that extra damage on lights. But lots of lights run ECM, so you need BAP, etc etc... which adds up to more tonnage, which means your Treb will run slower. It's a wonky mech, but my friend enjoys running the Gauss+PPC build, has a lot of immediate punch without feeling like Velveeta.

Or just buy a Yen Lo Wang, the speed and firepower are not to be underestimated. A good Wang pilot will keep that gun and shred Heavies easily, all they need is a bit of time and maneuverability, and then his team pushes under cover and rounds the corner to mop up that one, ensuring an immediate numerical advantage over the enemy. A good Yen Lo Wang is like a Hunchback 4G with more speed, giving you an advantage over most other mediums in terms of fast, deadly firepower.


EDIT: I only included Medium mechs because you specified it should be small, but there's several Heavy chassis' that will be quite fun once you dip your toes. I'm too lazy to do write-ups of the Heavies, but suffice it to say there's a job for every mech sometimes.

bowlie, on 16 July 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

CN - D.

I love it.

The arm getting blown off happens occasionally, but its not a huge issue and less so if your good at firing across yourself and torso twisting. I have the XL 275 I think, it goes a nice spritely 98km/h to get around the back of people and start firing its AC10 into them.

I tried the AL, but I found the AC10 is the premiere weapon for this mech because you can line it up and fire and twist back while moving much easier than you can keep it centered on someone constantly for AC2's while moving. Incidentally, my AL build with 2AC2's was good, and I used it in a fire support role for a mates Jager. It didnt work as well as a brawler

Brawling + XL Engine + HUGE side torsos = bad for business. I like the AC/10, but I usually found I never keep it long enough to do anything worthwhile with it, so I downgrad to the AC/5 so I can commit more tonnage towards my other weapons and speed.

Edited by Stomp, 17 July 2013 - 11:36 PM.

[oldradagast]

Second the recommendation of a Hunchback H or G with the AC20 build. Standard 250, Ferro, Endo, DHS, AC20, 3 tons of ammo, 3 medium lasers. I've done staggerly well with this build, capping out at a hair over 700 damage, and I've mostly played heavier mechs until this point.

You'll be carrying the largest gun in the game while moving at 81 kph (before Speed Tweak unlock) with 3 medium lasers as back up. You can circle strafe assaults while clobbering them, you can break open smaller mechs like a sledge hammer on a tin can, and you're fast enough to get away from anything that can outgun you.

Other comparable builds might be the "Wang" Centurion, since it can do the same thing with an AC20, and any Blackjack that can mount an AC20 while still being mobile. If there's a decent Blackjack build that can also use jump jets and the big gun, that could be nasty.

Edited by oldradagast, 18 July 2013 - 02:57 AM.

[Stomp]

oldradagast, on 18 July 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

Second the recommendation of a Hunchback H or G with the AC20 build. Standard 250, Ferro, Endo, DHS, AC20, 3 tons of ammo, 3 medium lasers. I've done staggerly well with this build, capping out at a hair over 700 damage, and I've mostly played heavier mechs until this point.

You'll be carrying the largest gun in the game while moving at 81 kph (before Speed Tweak unlock) with 3 medium lasers as back up. You can circle strafe assaults while clobbering them, you can break open smaller mechs like a sledge hammer on a tin can, and you're fast enough to get away from anything that can outgun you.

Other comparable builds might be the "Wang" Centurion, since it can do the same thing with an AC20, and any Blackjack that can mount an AC20 while still being mobile. If there's a decent Blackjack build that can also use jump jets and the big gun, that could be nasty.

This man is on it. Only BJs I've seen with the 20 though mount the XL engine, which is sort of bad, but the BJ doesn't have huge side torsos like Centurion, so it's not the worst. The Hunchback has a better torso twist than the Blackjack though, honestly the 4G does the AC/20 really really well.

Edited by Stomp, 18 July 2013 - 02:46 PM.