19 replies to this topic

[Neverther]

Tried playing some again.

1st:


2nd:


3rd one seemed to be bit balanced....and then crash
http://youtu.be/vsRRbSVSpbQ

4th: feels unbalanced, good thing I didnt have to play the match as client crashed.
http://youtu.be/q8MviQjbGtk

5th: running out of mechs, PPC stalker to the CT and then running on outskirts trying to cap




I hope they wipe all stats on launch.
Currently getting a balanced match from matchmaker has very low odds.
For now, not going to play becouse there seems to be no point in doing so.

[Bromineberry]

Welcome to my gaming experience since the moment open beta started.
[sarcasm]But, of course pug stomping, premade advantage and so on are just lies! L2P, Get TeamVentrilloSpeak, get friends and start roflstomping yourself, because that is how the game was meant to be played, noob![/sarcasm]

Edit:
The only thing missing from the screenshots is the smug "gg" that premades often give the other team after an 8:0 stomp.

Edited by Bromineberry, 12 July 2013 - 04:07 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

The stomping is killing it. I get these guys want to play teams and I am all for that but having 8 or even 4 VOIP teams agains pugs is so imbalanced from the start. I dont mind getting trounced by good players but getting trounced by poor players whoose only advatage is VOIP and team familiarity is a game killer. Teams need to fight teams and pugs should have the option of going against them. No honor in slaughter.

[Der Hesse]

Hey, thats me in the 5th. ^^

There are surely a lot of unbalanced matches, but its still possible to pug.
I do this nearly exclusively. Only once a week or once every two weeks i am in a Group of 2-4 People. Despite that i win 2/3 of the matches and have double as much kills as deaths.

Only Thing that really annoys me is when i drop against a well organized Premade of 4 high skilled Players. ELO seems to give up on balancing if such a case occurs. ^^
Even more lame are syncdrops of 8mans, but that not a Problem of elo. More one of bad gamedesign in General and too less Players.

[Ngamok]

Bromineberry, on 12 July 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

Welcome to my gaming experience since the moment open beta started.
[sarcasm]But, of course pug stomping, premade advantage and so on are just lies! L2P, Get TeamVentrilloSpeak, get friends and start roflstomping yourself, because that is how the game was meant to be played, noob![/sarcasm]

Edit:
The only thing missing from the screenshots is the smug "gg" that premades often give the other team after an 8:0 stomp.

You mean, "gg close". I will always say gg no matter if I win or lose. I always view it like giving the other team props for coming to play. Number of years ago I watched the Detroit Red WIngs sweep their opponents in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. You know what, both teams still went out and skated by each other giving their congratulations to each other on a good game played.

Actually looking at the past years, 1995-1998 were all 4-0 sweeps.

[Enigmos]

It is surely just an expression in support of good sportsmanship. If the opponent seemed smug about it... well that is a little challenging to put subtly into text chat. I have certainly felt like they must be chortling in their beers when it was a complete blowout but those times were only because I knew our and my performance was simply awful. When I fgeel that way I try and recognize my sentiment by just saying 'heh'. As in
0-8
GG
gg
GG!


heh

[ApolloKaras]

I'll say this... You do not want the stats to be wiped when the game launches. Can you imagine a bunch of newbies dropping against PEEFSmash, Homeless Bill, and a few other good players that I have had the pleasure of getting hit by and shooting ? lol it would be absurd

Edited by Saxie, 12 July 2013 - 10:04 AM.

[FromHell2k]

Well.. We had.. a bit fun...

Saxie, on 12 July 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

I'll say this... You do not want the stats to be wiped when the game launches. Can you imagine a bunch of newbies dropping against PEEFSmash, Homeless Bill, and a few other good players that I have had the pleasure of getting hit by and shooting ? lol it would be absurd

November/2012 Flashback..

"Your lives. I claim them".. I still hear his voice (sounds kinda friendly btw.). The images in my head. They aren't gone, even after a long time and I'm talking with noone about it.

Edited by FromHell2k, 12 July 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[Rascula]

Pugging is what I usually do to, occasionally ill team with a few friends but with work and all thats not too often. Running into a 4 man is usually fairly obvious from the get go but to be fair the advantage really doesn't seem to be that great. Hell I ran into Hell2k and his mob yesterday too and from what I remember it was a fun and fairly courteous brawl.

The real problem is sync droppers... no fun for anyone at all, and always leaves a dirty taste in my mouth..

[Angel of Annihilation]

I think the problem is ELO and how it tries to balance the match based on player skill rather than tonnage or anything else.

For example, your sitting in que with a High ELO of say 1000. Also in Que are 15 other players with ELO scores of 50-250 lets say.

So what ELO does it puts you on one team and then balances you out with all the ELO 50 players. Then it puts all the better players on the other team. Result is a sweep because no matter how good you are, you can't carry a team of low skilled players to victory against a entire team of decently skilled enemies.

They really need to just go to random selection because statisticly it will always through a random distribution of equally skilled player on each team. Sure you will have some great players, teamed up with really bad players each and every match but there will always be equally great and bad players on the other team. Rarely will it every be so badly skewed that you can't get a decently balanced match.

[Neverther]

Saxie, on 12 July 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

I'll say this... You do not want the stats to be wiped when the game launches. Can you imagine a bunch of newbies dropping against PEEFSmash, Homeless Bill, and a few other good players that I have had the pleasure of getting hit by and shooting ? lol it would be absurd

I remember playing against Homeless Bill, but this was before elo and it wasnt that bad.
Back then there were some rolls but not as bad as currently.
Before Jagermech update everything was fine in my opinion, and a week or two after as I dedicated my HBK-4G as 3L hunter (ballistics rewind, god I hated those pests).
Kinda fun to watch old recordings as they are not full of PPCs.

What I imagine happens when more new players start rolling in, some of these will come:
(thats the fake one).

When alpine came out, I remember players (even in 3Ls as those were their glorydays) just climbing behind the spawn and shutting down, leaving us with quite unbalanced teams (but some did not DC so I saw the timer run out couple times as all the other team had was slow assault or legged cat).

So some matches are bound to be unbalanced, but MM cannot account for that.
Current MM has issues as stated before, ELO avarage for the team, Im not sure if using sledgehammer to bring the elo down for cerentain players is approppriate (I am not sure if it is me in this case but I haven't played but few stray games over two/three months so ELO has not followed/changed with the masses who keep playing).

[Homeless Bill]

Saxie, on 12 July 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

I'll say this... You do not want the stats to be wiped when the game launches. Can you imagine a bunch of newbies dropping against PEEFSmash, Homeless Bill, and a few other good players that I have had the pleasure of getting hit by and shooting ? lol it would be absurd

I don't really think I deserve a mention as a particularly good player, but I do feel bad when I roll up on a total newbie. Sniping with medium lasers... doesn't understand that going fast makes them turn slow... can't aim... chain-firing machine guns... trying to gun down my Awesome in a standing, face-to-face shoot-out with a Raven 4X...

I really hope Elo tier separation is better after launch when the playerbase expands.

FromHell2k, on 12 July 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

"Your lives. I claim them"

I always appreciated that a lot more than "gl/hf." Killing Whispsy has to be one of the game's most satisfying experiences.

Neverther, on 12 July 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

(thats the fake one).

IS THAT ******* GUY STILL AROUND?!?!?! Jesus, dude. I've contacted support multiple times, he's clearly a ******* useless, TKing troll, and they really need to ban him. How long ago was that? He's even running the same ******* 'mech he used to. Looks like it's time to ***** to support again...

[Neverther]

Homeless Bill, on 12 July 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

.....
IS THAT ******* GUY STILL AROUND?!?!?! Jesus, dude. I've contacted support multiple times, he's clearly a ******* useless, TKing troll, and they really need to ban him. How long ago was that? He's even running the same ******* 'mech he used to. Looks like it's time to ***** to support again...

Relax, thats from 23th of March, and I emailed that video to support back then.
I was kinda pissed back then, but found your posts about the guy, I have no hard feelings for you
It was to demonstrate what MM cannot account for, trolls.
(I still have almost every game stored on disk, and still record every match I play)

Sold the 4X as alpine came and I did not feel good about left alone when everone else was faster.

[Homeless Bill]

Neverther, on 12 July 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Relax, thats from 23th of March, and I emailed that video to support back then.
I was kinda pissed back then, but found your posts about the guy, I have no hard feelings for you
It was to demonstrate what MM cannot account for, trolls.
(I still have almost every game stored on disk, and still record every match I play)

Sold the 4X as alpine came and I did not feel good about left alone when everone else was faster.

Praise the banhammer. I'm glad he's not back. You scared me for a minute =P

Yeah the 4X certainly requires a lot of finesse in the current state of balance. If I wasn't a cheap hoarder, I'd probably have sold it too.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bromineberry, on 12 July 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

Welcome to my gaming experience since the moment open beta started.
[sarcasm]But, of course pug stomping, premade advantage and so on are just lies! L2P, Get TeamVentrilloSpeak, get friends and start roflstomping yourself, because that is how the game was meant to be played, noob![/sarcasm]

Edit:
The only thing missing from the screenshots is the smug "gg" that premades often give the other team after an 8:0 stomp.

I see your Sarcasm an raise you my sincere answer. I have been PUGging an alt for 3+ Months. I have a near exact Win Loss record as I do in the Law. So PUG Stomping is not an issue as I can tell. The DEVs even say that teamwork is a Game enhancer so if you are losing and you do not use a Comm program with a few friends you are handicapping yourself. Even when the Law loses we find a reason to laugh and have some fun.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 July 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[Asakara]

As far as the matchmaker's weight balancing goes, according to PGI's standards, the 3 matches you have posted end-game screens of are all considered "tolerable" by their standards.

Difference of 0-40 tons = Tolerable
Difference of 45-75 tons = Not Tolerable
Difference of 80-200 tons = Horrendously Bad

Match 1:
615 tons vs 575 tons = 40 ton difference

Match 2:
510 tons vs 495 tons = 15 ton difference

Match 3:
No end screen

Match 4:
No end screen

Match 5:
555 tons vs 520 tons = 40 ton difference


See this thread for some examples of "horrendously bad" matchmaking weight balancing:
http://mwomercs.com/...54#entry2408854

[Neverther]

Asakara, on 12 July 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

...

Weight balancing =/= weight balancing with elo.

Other one is random mixture, the other one is skill weighted (heyletstakeavrageofthis, meh...good enough) random mixture.

Depending on how used to they are playing the weightclass they perform differently.
MM trying to balance the teams with one to three offset ELO score players might make it miss an cerentain "middle" range of ELO on the team (speculating as MM does stuff based on unpublished data).

Roll the dice.

[Ngamok]

Asakara, on 12 July 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

As far as the matchmaker's weight balancing goes, according to PGI's standards, the 3 matches you have posted end-game screens of are all considered "tolerable" by their standards.

Difference of 0-40 tons = Tolerable
Difference of 45-75 tons = Not Tolerable
Difference of 80-200 tons = Horrendously Bad

Match 1:
615 tons vs 575 tons = 40 ton difference

Match 2:
510 tons vs 495 tons = 15 ton difference

Match 3:
No end screen

Match 4:
No end screen

Match 5:
555 tons vs 520 tons = 40 ton difference


See this thread for some examples of "horrendously bad" matchmaking weight balancing:
http://mwomercs.com/...54#entry2408854

http://cloud-2.steam...5DDEC40EDA9086/

[Diablobo]

All the complaining about PPCs and high pinpoint alphas is nowhere near as frustrating as a bad matchmaking system. Hugely lopsided matches are way more frustrating than running into a PPC stalker.

[Ngamok]

Diablobo, on 13 July 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

All the complaining about PPCs and high pinpoint alphas is nowhere near as frustrating as a bad matchmaking system. Hugely lopsided matches are way more frustrating than running into a PPC stalker.

How about the picture above you? Look at the weight and guess what the stalkers are running, lol.