76 replies to this topic

[Draevyn]

To be honest, I don't think the clans should be a player-playable faction until technology has had a chance to permeate through the in-game universe. Their introduction into the MWO Game has the perfect potential to be an on-going PvE storyline or event, culminating much later in game with the universal PVP availability of clan tech and machines, and the ability to ally with them or as a pilot for them.

The reason for this is that, quite literally, Clan Technology and Introduction was a curb-stomp for the Inner Sphere in universe. That would go even more so when making Clan weaponry and equipment more appealing to players in the game.

[Broceratops]

Here's how the clan invasion is going to work. They're going to put out a lot of newsletters about mysterious invaders and lost battles. Then they will introduce clan tech for obscene amounts of cbills and new clan factions. The clan factions may require money to join.

That is it.

They are not going to make new maps, make missions, make AI, make clan mechs, etc, just so people can play co-op. This entire thread is delusional.

And I'm not saying any of this to be mean. I'm saying it so people who are expecting some sort of full immersion game can curb their enthusiasm. Its an arena pvp game. Any story stuff is on the forums/website. Maybe if you're lucky they'll have a galaxy map where you can select who you want to fight. You're not going to have full mission briefings and a back story for every fight and a conflict resolution story afterwards and npcs talking to you about how they used to be a mechwarrior until they took a gauss round to the knee.

Buy mechs, customize mechs, fight other people's mechs, get money and exp to improve your mech. If this isn't enough to hold peoples attention, too bad because its 95% of the game.

Edited by Broceratops, 11 July 2012 - 03:25 AM.

[Draevyn]

Broceratops, on 11 July 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

Here's how the clan invasion is going to work. They're going to put out a lot of newsletters about mysterious invaders and lost battles. Then they will introduce clan tech for obscene amounts of cbills and new clan factions. The clan factions may require money to join.

That is it.

They are not going to make new maps, make missions, make AI, make clan mechs, etc, just so people can play co-op. This entire thread is delusional.


And I'm not saying any of this to be mean. I'm saying it so people who are expecting some sort of full immersion game can curb their enthusiasm. Its an arena pvp game. Any story stuff is on the forums/website. Maybe if you're lucky they'll have a galaxy map where you can select who you want to fight.

Ah, it's nice to hear from the Developers what their long term plans are for this game.

I mean, that's what you are, right? You sound like you're speaking on the air of authority.

To go off cynicism, and make a point here, there are far more people who got into the BT/MW games because of their story and involvement, and not because of their multiplayer PVP. Even in multiplayer - using MW4 and MW4 Mercs as an example, the most popular maps were the ones with some element of PVP mixed in with PvE.

Edited by Draevyn, 11 July 2012 - 03:29 AM.

[Atavism]

Broceratops, on 11 July 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

They are not going to make new maps, make missions, make AI, make clan mechs, etc, just so people can play co-op. This entire thread is delusional.

The developers have quite clearly said that they are looking at ways to include PvE in the future, so if anything is delusional, it's claiming that it will never happen. That's not to say that PvE is a sure thing, but until the devs rule it out completely, there's nothing wrong with speculating on how it might work. Just as long as people remember that speculation is all it is, without going off on authoritative declarations about what will happen that they have no way of being certain of.

There's also nothing wrong with telling the devs what we want to see in the game, and so far the poll speaks for itself with only 27% voting against any kind of PvE.

And frankly, they will want to pull in as many players as they can, however they can. Limiting their playerbase strictly to PvPers is limiting their potential paying customers.

Edited by Atavism, 11 July 2012 - 03:32 AM.

[Broceratops]

Atavism, on 11 July 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

The devs have quite clearly said that they are looking at ways to include PvE in the future, so if anything is delusional, It's claiming that it will never happen. That's not to say that PvE is a sure thing, but until the devs rule it out completely, there's nothing wrong with speculating on how it might work.

And frankly, they will want to pull in as many players as they can, however they can. Limiting their playerbase strictly to PvPers is limiting their potential paying customers.

The more bells and whistles they throw out there, the more income they can potentially make, but the more money they'll definitely be spending to produce it. The game would have to have a huge paying population to justify what people are suggesting. Maybe it happens AND I HOPE IT DOES, but to me the developers are just being nice for now.

I AM ALL FOR PvE IF THE GAME IS DOING SO WELL THAT THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES, but most people are throwing out ideas without the least bit of thought on if it makes financial sense. Like, hey the clans are invading, to balance it lets make them a PvE faction. The amount of work to do something like that, when all they have is an arena based PvP game, would be staggering.

Draevyn, on 11 July 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Ah, it's nice to hear from the Developers what their long term plans are for this game.

I mean, that's what you are, right? You sound like you're speaking on the air of authority.

I speak on the authority of a person who can think logically. I'm not here because "darn it I just like mechwarrior so much and this is the first mechwarrior game in ages, and I'm going to build this thing up in my mind until its some sort of ultimate immersion experience". Its not like through your force of will you will be able to alter reality. Its an arena PvP game, deal with it.

Like I said,

Broceratops, on 11 July 2012 - 02:56 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm ALL FOR PVE. Just like I'm ALL FOR EATING STEAKS. But I don't go to dairy queen, order an ice cream cake, and then be like you know what would be great, if this came with a steak, could I get it with a steak please.

This question, "should we have pve?" is literally THE FIRST question they asked when they decided they were going to make a game. It is phase 0 of the design process. Its not something asked 2 weeks from opening the doors to your paying customers.

Finally, I have no expectation for this game beyond what they've stated. Even less than that, because its hard to hit all your targets right off the bat when it comes to games. I'll be happy with this game as long as I can buy a mech, customize it, and shoot at other mechs.

But I have a feeling soooooo many people are going to disappointed because what they really want is the specific game that is perfect for them, but with a mechwarrior setting. There's a multi-page thread about how this game should be DOTA but with mechs for gods sake. Discussion on how to change a game is fine, but when it gets to the point people are suggesting things that would literally CHANGE THE GENRE, I think reality checks are due. This is like saying, "you know what blizzard, world of warcraft is okay, but it would be even better if instead of raids we could just play a co-op RTS map". Sure that could be fun, and if you really want to be liberal with the definition, it's possible. But in reality no its not going to happen.

Edited by Broceratops, 11 July 2012 - 03:59 AM.

[RePoD]

I find it quite amusing how polarised people get on simple issues like this. But just to divide people further, here's my two cents.

The most important feature of all games, especially those reliant on regular income like MWO is a good atmosphere. PvE is one of those things that if implemented correctly can make or break a game. It also has the ability to stop the game becoming boring and repetitive like so many of the COD clones out there.

I certainly believe that PvE has its place, even in exclusively online games,you might want to try out a new mech loadout, or nobody wants to play your favorite map, or perhaps its the beginning of school holidays and you don't feel like loosing your new mech to a 12 year old. sometimes you just need a break.

I don't know what will be in the game at release or even a year down the track. Either way it'll be great, but something as simple as a little "combat simulator" might bring it to another level especially if it levels out the clans when they arrive.

[Vechs]

You guys know PGI has to have AI code for mechs and vehicles just laying around from when they were working on the Mechwarrior 5 campaign. If I was the guy who programmed all that, I'd want it to get used eventually.

[Dozer]

Broceratops, on 11 July 2012 - 02:56 AM, said:

The poll choices don't even make sense. There should be a choice "I realize it is totally unrealistic to randomly ask for a radical alteration just to fit my wants" instead of "screw pve i want to kill people".

Don't get me wrong, I'm ALL FOR PVE. Just like I'm ALL FOR EATING STEAKS. But I don't go to dairy queen, order an ice cream cake, and then be like you know what would be great, if this came with a steak, could I get it with a steak please.

This question, "should we have pve?" is literally THE FIRST question they asked when they decided they were going to make a game. It is phase 0 of the design process. Its not something asked 2 weeks from opening the doors to your paying customers.

And yet DQ sells Hamburgers

It's called riding the success of one product line by adding complementary products that strengthen that line or diversifying into other product lines that provide alternative sources of profitability.

PvE and PvP should not be competing products. They should (ideally) be complementary.

Edited by Dozer, 11 July 2012 - 04:16 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Draevyn, on 11 July 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

The community is going to drive this game because of that. Not everyone played MechWarrior, or Battletech, for that matter, just to "pwn" someone else in PVP. Plot, and not just player created RPs on the forums, were the franchise! The story line, the political intrigue, and the climate behind the universe drove it far more than the interaction between 8 battlemechs on each team ever did. If the community wants a side story or PVE mode, they're going to get it, it's just a matter of the developers having the incentive to add it, and the manpower/creative talent to do so.

It was always the online part that kept Mechwarrior games alive.

[Broceratops]

Atavism, on 11 July 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

There's also nothing wrong with telling the devs what we want to see in the game, and so far the poll speaks for itself with only 27% voting against any kind of PvE.

Nothing wrong with suggesting things, but when you get to the point the suggestions would change the genre, it's time for a reality check of whether it's just someone's attempt to twist what's there into their own perfect battletech game.

Yes, 27% voted to no to PvE, but 23% also voted for PvE on launch, so I wouldn't look to this poll as anything other than the game-twisting mentioned above. Besides, I didn't vote in the poll and from the thread views I'm not alone, because it's a stupid poll with stupid options. Between

PvE when the game launches (really?)
PvE when the Clans come
and "screw PvE i wanna fight people"

I choose to abstain. I'm on record as being for PvE if it makes sense for the health of the game, which is not an option in the poll. All I'm getting from the poll is "when is this game going to have PvE because I would really like to play mechwarrior 5".

Edited by Broceratops, 11 July 2012 - 04:33 AM.

[Quintos Gidieon]

I would definitely like to have PVE content... what that could be... not sure, but it could attract more players and more players could mean more money for PGI. Which in turn means more game content for everybody...

[CJF Ronin]

Dirtie Deeds, on 10 June 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

PVE could be useful to people new to the game and mech testing. Allows a new pilot to used to playing and learn basic tactics without getting hammered by vets. Maybe a few side missions with objectives.

I agree newbies might benifit from this, but for us more exp pilots i think it would be a waste

[William Thor]

I think a

Broceratops, on 11 July 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

But I have a feeling soooooo many people are going to disappointed because what they really want is the specific game that is perfect for them, but with a mechwarrior setting. There's a multi-page thread about how this game should be DOTA but with mechs for gods sake. Discussion on how to change a game is fine, but when it gets to the point people are suggesting things that would literally CHANGE THE GENRE, I think reality checks are due. This is like saying, "you know what blizzard, world of warcraft is okay, but it would be even better if instead of raids we could just play a co-op RTS map". Sure that could be fun, and if you really want to be liberal with the definition, it's possible. But in reality no its not going to happen.

I don't think anyone is expecting the sky at launch. In fact, the devs have been very thorough and honest with what we are getting at launch. This kind of discussion is about what the community as a whole wants out of the game in the longer term. Quite expectedly, most people are champing at the bit for objective based gameplay, a immersive, crazy environment that simulates the scale of a battlefield and a strategic layer that matters and gives each battle a purpose in a larger war.

This is an MMO, no one is expecting much at launch, what they do expect is it to grow and evolve over time once the initial bugs are ironed out. Personally, i see at the very least a DOTA styled (This does not mean RTS DOTA!) game mode in the future.

[Name48928]

How did the Inner Sphere stop the invading Clans?

The Clans had worthless NPC AI.

[Acer Lerxt]

I have no problem with people who want to be able to PVE, as long as it's not competitive.

Hi-Rez's GA has a pretty good PvE system for a PvP-centric game. By pretty good, I mean it's not terribly disruptive to game balancing.

That said, I've seen way too many cases of relatively good PvP systems wrecked because of PvE balancing for competitive players. I'd hate to see that happen here.

[Feralsquirrel]

A point has been made about AI. True, implementing it is a lot of work. I understand this and thus, would never expect it at launch. As has been said- it's a lot of work. Balancing and perfecting it in time for release is just unrealistic. At a later date, sure. I wouldn't mind seeing some PvE getting thrown in at some point. I've said in previous threads that I wouldn't mind it- PvE can make things a little more interesting, if only for a while.

When it comes to the whole "Clan invasion" theme, I'm not particularly bothered- whether it gets introduced one way or another is neither here nor there- having to sell a Mech kidney to afford Clan tech? Fine. Having AI-controlled Clan mechs appear from nowhere mid-match? Sure. Get thrown into a PvE match against a load of AI-controlled Clanners? No problem. Even if it gets implemented so that random players are chosen to pilot clan mechs or something- that's not an issue.

PvE will be nice- no doubt about it. But what we all have to remember is that MWO was never, ever vaunted as possessing PvE action from the get-go. It's going to get put in sometime, somehow and there isn't (as yet) official, stamped confirmation on how/what/when that will be. The Devs will have their hands full for a good length of time just getting the game released and then ironing out a plethora of problems/bugs and such before they start work on adding in tasty extras like PvE.

Hell- if they've got something worked out already, then cool beans to that. But it sure as hell won't be in the release, I'd put C-Bills on that.

[Hackett]

Feralsquirrel, on 11 July 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

A point has been made about AI. True, implementing it is a lot of work. I understand this and thus, would never expect it at launch. As has been said- it's a lot of work. Balancing and perfecting it in time for release is just unrealistic. At a later date, sure. I wouldn't mind seeing some PvE getting thrown in at some point. I've said in previous threads that I wouldn't mind it- PvE can make things a little more interesting, if only for a while.

When it comes to the whole "Clan invasion" theme, I'm not particularly bothered- whether it gets introduced one way or another is neither here nor there- having to sell a Mech kidney to afford Clan tech? Fine. Having AI-controlled Clan mechs appear from nowhere mid-match? Sure. Get thrown into a PvE match against a load of AI-controlled Clanners? No problem. Even if it gets implemented so that random players are chosen to pilot clan mechs or something- that's not an issue.

PvE will be nice- no doubt about it. But what we all have to remember is that MWO was never, ever vaunted as possessing PvE action from the get-go. It's going to get put in sometime, somehow and there isn't (as yet) official, stamped confirmation on how/what/when that will be. The Devs will have their hands full for a good length of time just getting the game released and then ironing out a plethora of problems/bugs and such before they start work on adding in tasty extras like PvE.

Hell- if they've got something worked out already, then cool beans to that. But it sure as hell won't be in the release, I'd put C-Bills on that.

I agree, nice post. I'm fine with any of those ideas re: Clans. PvP is going to be all that we need for a long, long time. But a year from now, having a non-competitive co-op mode vs. Clan NPCs could be a refreshing change of pace. Emphasis on non-competitive, though. Something along the lines of ME3's MP mode, which to me doesn't seem incredibly complicated or requiring extensive balancing.