38 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

Well, starting Tuesday, 4ER PPC and 6 PPC builds wont be "High Alpha" viable anymore. Except for a 2 PPC 2 ERPPC combo which will be fixed later. That is a good start.

The problem with the min PPC dropoff is that if you are at 50m or whatever and take a 4 ppc alpha that is probably still 10 or 20 damage. Now atleast these builds are more likely to overheat in a panic.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 13 July 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Mystere, on 13 July 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

I should have been clearer then. I was talking in terms of Physics and not TT.

It's actually very easy to explain a minimum range under which damage is reduced for a gauss rifle. Overpenetration. A small gauss-round sized hole right through an enemy mech will do very little damage to it, being as most of the kinetic energy is preserved in the projectile.

Also. You're arguing physics for a gauss rifle with a maximum effective range of under 2km.

[Unbound Inferno]

Otto Cannon, on 13 July 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Meh. Nerf ppcs and you'll just drive people to erppcs and be taking full short range damage instead of reduced.

We return PPC heat to 10, ERPPC to 15 and make sure PPC harm the user under 90m to push towards ERPPC with higher heat - less shots fired, easier on the battlefield.

Sounds good to me, lets do it.

[Otto Cannon]

Unbound Inferno, on 13 July 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

We return PPC heat to 10, ERPPC to 15 and make sure PPC harm the user under 90m to push towards ERPPC with higher heat - less shots fired, easier on the battlefield.

Sounds good to me, lets do it.

Works for me too, I don't use them. I can only imagine the floods of tears on the forum if you ever got your way though.

[Unbound Inferno]

Otto Cannon, on 13 July 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Works for me too, I don't use them. I can only imagine the floods of tears on the forum if you ever got your way though.

I'll make sure to drown them out with LRM fire.

My K2 would end up being competitive instead of a target and I might actually use its extremely high heat efficient build with 2 decent Energy hardpoints.

[JohnnyWayne]

Unbound Inferno, on 13 July 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

We return PPC heat to 10, ERPPC to 15 and make sure PPC harm the user under 90m to push towards ERPPC with higher heat - less shots fired, easier on the battlefield.

Sounds good to me, lets do it.

You know where PPCs were even without that damage? If you do this you have to **** up any other weapon in the game too, then we can use sticks and swearwords to fight each other.

We'll see how heat penaltys will work out. There is probably still an issue with gauss. I'd propose that gauss capacitors get a chance to overload and explode, if they are fired together with a PPC, due to its electonric interference.

[Unbound Inferno]

JohnnyWayne, on 13 July 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

You know where PPCs were even without that damage? If you do this you have to **** up any other weapon in the game too, then we can use sticks and swearwords to fight each other.

We'll see how heat penaltys will work out. There is probably still an issue with gauss. I'd propose that gauss capacitors get a chance to overload and explode, if they are fired together with a PPC, due to its electonric interference.

Yeah, PPCs would be back to where they should be. Good damage, decent range with a cost.

To be honest, that alternative of yours doesn't make much sense nor is it anything cannon - much like these heat penalties and hardpoint restrictions I'd admit.

I just wish PGI would fess up, admit that there is something fundamentally wrong and just fix that instead of trying to cramp the game in these awkward angles.

[Team Leader]

I actually was nearly legged by a 4 PPC stalker when I was in my lightly damaged jenner about 50m away. I was shocked. I thought they were supposed to be doing 0 damage that close. But nope. Must have done at least 20 points of damage! I think there really should be an inhibitor field, inside 90m you do 1 damage and with the inhibitor off you get exactly what skyfaller said.

[JohnnyWayne]

Unbound Inferno, on 13 July 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Yeah, PPCs would be back to where they should be. Good damage, decent range with a cost.

To be honest, that alternative of yours doesn't make much sense nor is it anything cannon - much like these heat penalties and hardpoint restrictions I'd admit.

I just wish PGI would fess up, admit that there is something fundamentally wrong and just fix that instead of trying to cramp the game in these awkward angles.

PPCs were dead. You obviously didn't play back then. Dude if you have no idea then just don't post. Magnetic flields influenceing each other doesn't make sense? No? Srsly... To be honest Gameplay is more important than canon even though im a purist at times. But right here I'd say **** canon.

PPC alphas won't be that much of an issue but gauss + PPCs will stay.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 13 July 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[Unbound Inferno]

JohnnyWayne, on 13 July 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

PPCs were dead. You obviously didn't play back then. Dude if you have no idea then just don't post. Magnetic flields influenceing each other doesn't make sense? No? Srsly... To be honest Gameplay is more important than canon even though im a purist at times. But right here I'd say **** canon.

PPC alphas won't be that much of an issue but gauss + PPCs will stay.

No, I didn't play back then, but perhaps your missing something?

With what you say using Two Gauss should blow themselves upon firing.

Besides, they don't even have Gauss right here. It should be a 20 dmage hit upon exploding,and the gun has a min range.of 60m.

[JohnnyWayne]

What I'm saying is that when you fire 2 PPCs and a gauss in a certain timeframe the guass should blew up. A PPC creates way more magnetic disturbance than a gauss rifle due to its bolt like behaviour.

A PPC shot theoretically consists of super charged electrons that cause cinetic and heat damage at the same time on impact.
A gauss shot is an bullet (without an propellant charge) fired with high speed (created by magnetic acceleration, magnetic induction <=> also see railgun) and is primarly slowed down because of friction with air.

The conductors in a gauss rifle are not very stable (in BT) what causes a gauss rifle to explode by chance if its destroyed.

2 gauss rifles don't affect each other as much as 2-6 PPC do. I hope I explained it better this time.^^

PPC values:
Back when PPC were on TT values I probably was the only person running them in mwo. Why? Marauder. They were too hot to use it in a proper way due to the faster (3 times faster) pace in mwo compared to TT. They were unbearably hot and just not viable. Right now PPCs can be boated, what created this and any other discussion in the first place. If there are only 2 PPCs in close range use you won't kill anything with them that isn't already nearly dead.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

soarra, on 13 July 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

gauss rifle has a Minimum Range, 2 in tt

And it suffered reduced accuracy under it's minimum range. The damage remained at 10.

[Unbound Inferno]

Astroniomix, on 13 July 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

And it suffered reduced accuracy under it's minimum range. The damage remained at 10.

And how would we put inaccurcy into this game when PGi doesn't want to?

A reduction or elimination of damage like LRMs is about the only other option.

[JohnnyWayne]

You don't. Thats simply it.^^

Reduction of damage? Lrm's are currently at 1.1 ... oh well just look at this thread youll find my opinion to that matter there:

http://mwomercs.com/...n-over-powered/ ^^

[Unbound Inferno]

You need to drive a C4 with two LRM20s.

Their entire missile spread mechanic is skewered and shotty. Their tracking is pathetic and they are grossly out of place of where they should be.

LRMs should be a neigh-feared weapon to keep out of their range or sight, not a slight missile warning that takes a bloated boatfull to deal damage.


Take a look at mine instead; http://mwomercs.com/...28#entry2522028

Buff AMS and increase LRM damage. If you can cope with it it works, if not it does exactly what it should do.

[SMDMadCow]

JohnnyWayne, on 13 July 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

PPCs were dead. You obviously didn't play back then. Dude if you have no idea then just don't post. Magnetic flields influenceing each other doesn't make sense? No? Srsly... To be honest Gameplay is more important than canon even though im a purist at times. But right here I'd say **** canon.

PPC alphas won't be that much of an issue but gauss + PPCs will stay.

I did play back then, PPCs were dead becasue of lower projectile speed and shoddy hit mechanics. Npw that they can reliably hit things, theyre heat needs to jump back up. We also need to lower the max heat cap of every mech and increase disipation rates. That would make even twin ppc and gauss take some thinking to run effectively.
Increased heat plus lower cap equals more shutdowns from pilots who think its ok to ignore their heat scale.

[Odins Fist]

CancR, on 13 July 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

Both PPCs and Gauss should only do 1 point of damage in min range.

PPCs should also have the BT nerf where they cant fire at mechs that are shut down.

Since when have they stuck to BT/TT rules..?? They tweak things to suit them, they annonce a timeline, and then drop it
(as predicted) when it becomes evident development can't keep up with it.

There is so much to say that MWO is only based it's stats on BT to a certain extent...

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

A great fix for PPC minimum range is to have the drop-off stay as-is but take the lost damage and apply it to the firing weapon's location. The whole reason for the minimum range was that PPCs tended to splash back on the firer when used too close, with ERPPCs having that particular problem fixed by their superior tech.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 13 July 2013 - 07:44 PM.

[Iron War]

The PPC mechanics are fine. Just slightly increase the heat of PPC/ERPPC by 1 or 2 points.

FYI: The Field Inhibitor is what protects the firing mech from feedback. As the projected ions get farther from the mech there is less chance of the feedback and thus the damage rise.