78 replies to this topic

[Sable]

Title says it all, can we slow down the projectile speed on PPCs already. I'm sooooo sick of being instant cored from 1000m. If they were as slow as ac20s they'd be much harder to hit with at such extreme ranges. They are the easy button right now. I don't have a problem with their damage or heat but they should be harder to use.

The new "heat scale" isn't going to cut it completely either, they are just too good.

[TheGreatNoNo]

Nope, they are going to make them hitscan to even it out for the heat nerf.




And yes, I am bullshitting.

[Mystere]

I find energy-based weapons taking longer to hit than ballistic weapons quite silly. So no.

[Sable]

Mystere, on 13 July 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

I find energy-based weapons taking longer to hit than ballistic weapons quite silly. So no.

Its not the standard energy weapon such as a laser. It projects a supercharge ball of particles. Projecting that takes or at least is supposed to take time.

[Mystere]

Sable, on 13 July 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

Its not the standard energy weapon such as a laser. It projects a supercharge ball of particles. Projecting that takes or at least is supposed to take time.

I used to work with particle accelerators. Guess how fast those "supercharged particles" traveled?

[Corvus Antaka]

1600 or even better 1200 m/s would solve a lot of problems.

[FupDup]

Mystere, on 13 July 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

I used to work with particle accelerators. Guess how fast those "supercharged particles" traveled?

Did you work with giant robots in the year 3050?

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 13 July 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Did you work with giant robots in the year 3050?

I worked on weaponizing energy-based devices (i.e. lasers, particle accelerators, plasma) during the late 20th and early 21st Centuries. Does that count?

Edited by Mystere, 13 July 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[BillyM]

Agreed with the original poster, it was one of the numerous buffs that need to be undone...

--billyM

[FupDup]

Mystere, on 13 July 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

I worked on weaponizing energy-based devices (i.e. lasers, particles accelerators, plasma) during the 20th and 21st Centuries. Does that count?

Seeing how this game takes place many centuries later and is riddled from head-to-toe with unrealistic elements, I'd say that no it doesn't really count. If you're looking for a game that adheres to physics/realism/etc., stay away from Battletech.


A STD 100 engine takes up the same space as a STD 400, and the latter can hold a crapload more heatsinks inside of the same physical space to boot. When I shoot at an Atlas's fist, it damages/destroys his entire arm. With the current angle on many jumpjet ports, most mechs would faceplant when they try to jump. An AC/20 has a tiny fraction of the range of an AC/2, and in fact can be outranged by many modern infantry-carried small arms. Our giant war machines have pitifully insufficient cooling systems to ventilate the heat they generate (in real life, nobody would design a combat vehicle that would melt itself just by firing a few times). Hundreds of missiles can be fed from my legs all the way up into my arms...while moving at over 150 kilometers per hour. "Long" range in Battletech is around only 1000 meters or less, whereas real life weapons go waaaaay farther out than that. Gigantic coilguns--Gauss Rifles--generate very little heat in this game but would be very hot IRL. Why are we driving giant robots at all when tanks have a smaller target profile, are far cheaper and easier to produce, and have more concentrated armor?


If you feel the current PPC speed is fine, use arguments based in gameplay effects instead of physics. You'd probably get more realism out of Pacman than this game.

Edited by FupDup, 13 July 2013 - 09:38 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

PPC and ERPPC projectile speed should be divorced. Have the ERPPC go at least 200 m/s faster, to reflect its greater accuracy and to make it harder to fire the weapons in the same weapon group at long-range moving targets and still achieve single-location alphas.

I like a 1200/1400/1600 m/s arrangement for Gauss/PPC/ERPPC.

[One Medic Army]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 13 July 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

PPC and ERPPC projectile speed should be divorced. Have the ERPPC go at least 200 m/s faster, to reflect its greater accuracy and to make it harder to fire the weapons in the same weapon group at long-range moving targets and still achieve single-location alphas.

I like a 1200/1400/1600 m/s arrangement for Gauss/PPC/ERPPC.

Yup, this I like.

[SirLANsalot]

Standard PPC should go 800m/s (AC20 speed) and ER go about 1000 or 1200 since its "better tech". This would put a lot of skill back into these guns.

[xRatas]

PPC should be fast in theory, but it might still make better game to slow them down a little bit. Certainly no to AC20 speeds though, sniper weapon needs to be quite fast anyway.

Boating nerf is just bad mechanics, fixed with worse mechanics. PPC are boated because they are better than rest of the weapons. Not by huge margin, but enough to be best. Rest is done by community hype, many people would do better with other weapons, but install PPC because everyone say it is best. Decided to finally play light mechs after Elo, and you wouldn't believe what I saw there about people using PPC.

But some fixes I'd do:

Lot more heat to PPC and ERPPC. 10 and 15 heat would be a reasonable start really. Make it a short pulse, i.e. 0,4 sec ray that travels current speed. Damage spreads if it hits several places just like lasers. Also include damage to own internals under minimum range: i.e. at 50 meters it deals 5 damage to target and 4 damage to your own internals to the location where PPC is.

Minimum range to gauss. (this makes no sense in theory, but TT has it, and so should we.) slow down shot the further it moves. Basic physics.

Same with AC:s. Bigger the caliber, more slowdown in midair. make different planets have different atmosphere, so slowdown is not always the same.

Buff the damn SRM to be useful.

And most importantly, fix the hit detection. It has something to do with range, closer you are, more often it happens. Over 150-200m it is rare, under 150m you can not sometimes harm a mech even if you both stand still. It is older bug than HSR, first time I recall seeing it in end of last year. It was crazy when mastering the splat cat, and it is nowdays quite common with PPC:s.

Finally, put that boating nerf to back where you pulled it out. Just follow the smell of it, and you'll find the place.

Edit: and remove pulse laser cooldowns, let them fire continuously so that only heat controls their rate of fire. Increase heat & reduce damage accordingly, if too OP. That would give them reasonably different mechanics and good looks.

Edited by xRatas, 13 July 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[Jay Kerensky]

[Modo44]

Mystere, on 13 July 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

I worked on weaponizing energy-based devices (i.e. lasers, particle accelerators, plasma) during the late 20th and early 21st Centuries. Does that count?

So the answer is "no". Thanks. Get unstuck and realize that this is not about realistic anything, but about balancing a game.

[TehSBGX]

Honestly if they slowed it down to ac5 speed it would be so much more balanced. PPCs need to be toned down a little.

[Corvus Antaka]

xRatas, on 13 July 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Certainly no to AC20 speeds though, sniper weapon needs to be quite fast anyway.

The PPC applies all damage instantly to 1 node. No one will ever pickup an ERLarge over an ERPPC until the ERPPC is slow enough that hitting fast strafing targets at long range starts to become more difficult. Right now the long range sniping is ridiculously easy. Bringing PPC flight time down to CB values might be a huge step in the right direction. ER and large lasers are staple guns and will remain heavily underused until the PPC balance is sorted out.

The erlarge should be a staple sniper weapon used due to ease of hitting the target over the PPC - something severly lacking right now.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 13 July 2013 - 11:43 PM.

[YueFei]

Slowing PPC projectile may also have the knock-on benefit that snipers must lead the target so far ahead that the shot won't converge at the target. If the background is far enough away, the shot will not converge tightly, so even if the target is hit, you'll get individual PPC shots striking different armor panels. At least, for the smaller / faster mechs. Slowing down the projectile speed also makes it humanly possible for larger mechs to reactively twist and turn when a PPC projectile is fired, to tank the hit on fresh armor.

[M0rpHeu5]

If you slow them down they's steak better with other guns and the alpha stike will be more powerfull