16 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I have noticed that, in the current Pick-up Game queue, Battle Lines often trudge forward 1/2 up the map until they either engage... or go past eachother. With the inclusion of a third Lance on both teams, this will greatly increase the chances of a full Lance of fast Mechs being on either Team which, in turn, necessitates Base Defense.

Do you think the 12v12 environment will reduce the frequency of Massed Assault Mechs going straight through to Map Center, and rather cause them to go only 1/4 -> 1/3 way up until the enemy Fast Movers are spotted? Or do you think the greater number of fast Mechs/Match will not really make a big difference on the initial behavior of massed Battle Lines?

I can personally see myself being uncomfortable leaving my base now undefended and reliant on a group of Fast allied Mechs to RTB, because a larger enemy Cap force (thanks to more players/team) might deplete the cap timer too fast, now, and having more team members on RTB won't get them to base any faster to counteract the increased rate-of-capture.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 13 July 2013 - 08:18 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

It didn't seem to on Thursday for the Hour I played. But I did seem to notice a rise in flanking attacks!

[Deathlike]

I think there's enough mechs on the field to actually defend a cap... and cover most traveled areas... so I don't think it's an actual issue.

For the most part... it's utter chaos and I don't figure that will change when 12v12 is actually upon us.

12v12 discourages the blob movement a little bit, but not entirely. The importance of vision and scouting is even more important here.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 July 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[Odins Fist]

Prosperity Park, on 13 July 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

"Will 12V12 Encourage Initial Battle Lines To Remain Closer To Base?"

Only if you're scared/afraid...

[Gaan Cathal]

Odins Fist, on 13 July 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Only if you're scared/afraid...

Or defending your base.

[Khobai]

the maps are already too small for 8v8. trying to cram 12 mechs into is just a bad idea. Its going to make defensive play completely dominant because no one will want to move out of cover.

[MischiefSC]

What I saw was more lance vs lance combat. The blobs were pretty spread out and people feel a lot more bold flanking when it's 3 or 4 people instead of just 1 or 2. Honestly? More brawling, flanking, it was all pretty bloody.

[Sephlock]

Gigantic megablobs will be the trend, at least among puggers.

[Unbound Inferno]

The spoils of war go to those that are bold.

Depends on the team and situation, but I see more teamwiping with more mechs once they get coordinated or used to the situation.

[Jman5]

First of all, I think it's important that we don't assume the games will play out like they did during testing. The way people played was very similar to how people play whenever a new map comes out. Lots of chaotic running around until people figure things out. Then it settles down into more structured positioning. I would also wager there were a lot more lone wolves who came over to the server just to try it out. When 12v12 goes live, we'll see more 4 man lances on each team and less anarchy.

Back on point, I think we'll still see people blobbing up in similar locations, but there will also be more independent lance movements around the flanks. This in turn will increase teams map awareness and make base capturing more difficult. I'm also hopeful that the weapon rebalancing will encourage more people to take brawler builds, which could decrease the amount of stalemates. How and when they decide to balance seismic will also have an impact on capping effectiveness.

In reality it's actually pretty easy to position your team in a way that spots/blocks base captures on all maps. Even in very forward positions. I think the more players we have the more you will see people accidentally scouting better. Remember, all you need is a single guy to spot the incoming cap rush to shut it down most of the time.

Finally, there are a lot of players who absolutely refuse to base cap and refuse to account for potential base rushes. These people will continue running ahead to get to their favorite sniping spot. I fear no amount of losing will change their attitude.

Edited by Jman5, 13 July 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Akulakhan]

Testing 12 v 12 was pretty mind-numbing, because 12 PPC boats is 50% more frustrating than 8 PPC boats.

It's the same exact game. Just worse.

[Tarrasque]

MischiefSC, on 13 July 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

What I saw was more lance vs lance combat. The blobs were pretty spread out and people feel a lot more bold flanking when it's 3 or 4 people instead of just 1 or 2. Honestly? More brawling, flanking, it was all pretty bloody.

I too saw this. It was a welcome change, but I (unfortunately) think that once people get used to 12v12, it'll be back to the status quo. Just a matter of time before the uber leet gamers find the most efficient way to roflstomp opponents.

Unbound Inferno, on 13 July 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

The spoils of war go to those that are bold.

Depends on the team and situation, but I see more teamwiping with more mechs once they get coordinated or used to the situation.

Precisely. Although I will say it appears that lances feel much more comfortable disengaging and doing a RTB or flanking maneuver, because a lance moving now is only 33% of your forces, rather than 50%.

[Kanatta Jing]

I didn't see 50% more PPC boats. I saw 50% more lights and LRM boats.

I think there is a decided lack of return in investment for larger PPC blobs and that will start to factor into play.

[Lykaon]

Honestly on most maps the map size is small enough to allow even average speed mechs to RTB.

Maybe on Alpine or Tourmaline we may see some counter capping tactics develop but mostly we will see more of the same with the same handful of 85+ ton mechs.

[Farix]

It's too early to tell how 12v12 will change player tactics right now. With 8 more mechs on the field, it opens up a lot more options. However, at the same time, it could devolve into the same meta we see with 8v8.

[Ralgas]

It's going to be map dependent, one thing i did notice on the battles that piled out to sduke it out rather than flank was there were much better sight lines for lrm'ers ( i'd assume due to the extra mechs out there having more visibility coverage).

It's going to become a case of map by map tactics to avoid mech jams and jostling for cover, and or light packs doing the "4 man capper lance"

Edit: if they managed to get collisions back in at the same time as 12v12 results would be hilarious till they figured it out

Edited by Ralgas, 14 July 2013 - 05:03 AM.

[jakucha]

Matches seemed to end up in brawls more easily. I also saw 4 light mechs attack a full health Atlas and take him down, it was like ring around the rosey.