461 replies to this topic

[tredmeister]

So... what is the purpose of my mech shutting down now? I thought this feature was to protect the mech from internal damage? Now If I overheat and shutdown twice, my mech is completely cored...

[H1veM1nd]

Shutting down to save a mech isn't the same as intentionally overheating it beyond 100% just to crank out damage.

[Josef Koba]

I just tested two AC/20s in training grounds. Assuming there isn't some issue with different modifiers or whatever there, I can report the following:

Alpha of two AC/20s on my JM6-DD with XL Engine 260 and ten double HS equals 47% heat. If I chain fire them it goes up to 17%. This was on Frozen City Night. This tells me one thing: I'll have to slow my fire rate somewhat, but this will not prevent people from dying to AC/20 Jagers. I am comfortable that I will still be able to reliable put 40 points of damage into one location using chain fire, which I do with LLas. If the intent was to break the dual AC/20 builds, I don't think this will work. I'll just do each map on training, figure out what my heat does, and go from there.

Also tested the Awesome with four LRM15s. Heat goes up to near 50% or higher with one alpha on Forest Colony Snow. Chain firing them achieves far less heat.

I don't "boat" anything else really, so I can't speak to what other builds do.

By the way, the option to pick your map on training grounds was long overdue. Kudos to PGI for that.

[Iqfish]

My 6x LL Boat died after NINE Shutdowns with over 250% heat.

You should get more damage.

[Kampfer]

Asatruer, on 16 July 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Rather than an arbitrary addition to heat based on numbers of weapons fired, how about the old Heat Scale overlords? You know, like how BattleTech did things where increasing heat starts having ill effects long before the forced shutdown due to heat. This would do a great job of de-incentivising the alpha strikes much more than the current system does. Here, have a look half way down this other post that talks about it. http://mwomercs.com/...-jump-jet-nerf/

I've never played Table Top battletech mechwarrior, whatever, It was before my time

[Buckminster]

PhoenixFire55, on 16 July 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Thats actually not true ...

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hellstar (ERPPC)
http://www.sarna.net...ne_%28Kraken%29 (UAC2)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kodiak (ERML)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder_Hawk (Gauss)

And these are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more.

But these are all clan mechs. A lot of people still think of the old TT stuff, where the Awesome was the only mech with more than 2 PPCs.

[IceSerpent]

SwiftHatchet, on 16 July 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

I simply stated, about as plainly as an individual can, that I welcome the concept and hope it address the gameplay issues at hand. And even injected the comment (of generic support) for the things I very plainly know I do not understand.

Yes, I know what you've stated - you welcome the concept without knowing what that concept is.

Quote

Maybe you can explain to me why I need further knowledge to make the statement that I did.

Do I really need to explain to you why passing judgement on things you know virtually nothing about is a Bad Idea ™?

Quote

And while you're at it, maybe fill me in on the cool things I get to do as a white knight now.

You get to do what you already do - indiscriminately praise everything PGI does.

[Milocinia]

Ok so my feedback.

Patch 1.2.231 = WIN

To all the whiners, how about you take your own F*****G advice for once - adapt or die!

[Sable Dove]

PhoenixFire55, on 16 July 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Thats actually not true ...

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hellstar (ERPPC)
http://www.sarna.net...ne_%28Kraken%29 (UAC2)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kodiak (ERML)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder_Hawk (Gauss)

And these are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more.

Those don't really prove anything. Even the variant with 8 LRM15s could fire all of its weapons in 4 seconds in MWO with no penalty, which is less than one turn.

As much as I hope to see many Stalkers blow themselves up, a better idea would have been to reduce the heat cap and introduce penalties for staying at high heat. But that's just wishful thinking.

[HRR Insanity]

Worst idea ever.

Doesn't fix:
2xGR
2xGR+PPC
2xGR+ERPPC
2xERPPC+GR
2xPPC+GR
GR+AC20

EDIT: Also doesn't deal with people wiling to deal with the heat penalty to insta-gib 'Mechs then hide and cooldown (2xAC20, 3xPPC+GR).

You guys don't get it. As long as you can combine damage from lots of weapons into a single BIG weapon (regardless of what combination), that combination pinpoint alpha will always be better than individual weapons. Those configurations will dominate the meta.

I've told you this before. As have other people. You don't listen because you fundamentally don't understand that you cannot fix this problem by limiting weapons, changing heat, restricting hardpoints, or any other method. The problem is with convergence. You can reduce the impact of grouped damage, but until you address pinpoint convergence, your gameplay is busted.

But keep trying guys... it's been 2 years. I'm sure you'll get it soon. Really.

Edited by HRR Insanity, 16 July 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[H1veM1nd]

I'd still like an explanation of where this multiplier is actually being utilized.

2 PPC alpha with 10DHS in normal weather generated 30% heat (16 heat / 55 heat capacity is roughly 30%).
3 PPC alpha with the same mech reached 67% heat. 67% x 55 = 36.85 heat produced

Try and make a factor or addition of 7 work anywhere into those maths.

[tredmeister]

Kyocera, on 16 July 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

...To all the whiners, how about you take your own F*****G advice for once - adapt or die!

Guess it's time for me to invest in a Jager then... Anyone want to buy some (slightly used) Awesomes?
(J/K )

[Swift Hatchet]

@IceSerpent

My reply was and still is in reply to the OP.

If it's not possible for you to appreciate my appreciation (whether right or wrong) of things being done to address the gameplay issues, thats fine. I really don't see the purpose of twisting my intent and words around. Or generally berating my opinion, simply because you don't share my perspective. And on the topic of "judgement", I see where I made none. Besides, you seem to have it covered.

PM me if you want to continue this, seems rather off topic.

[Tennex]

not sure why this system was based off of chain fire.

when chain fire itself can't even cycle through faster weapons.

Edited by Tennex, 16 July 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[Nightdancer ND]

Asatruer, on 16 July 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Similarly, the Awesome comes by design with 3 PPCs which is more than the 2 max without penalty.
Please, rather than adding arbitrary heat penalties, consider another option, like convergence.

Simply don't Alpha?!?
Fire the 3rd half a second later... that's too hard for you?

[Ningyo]

So you take the idea that over 75% of people posting about it on the forum point out massive problems and no benefits.

With one of the most major problems being how unintuitive and confusing it is.

Then you take all that feedback and decide to make it even less intuitive and more confusing.

And it still does absolutely nothing to address gameplay balance at all.

Decidedly unimpressed, and even though I have only been playing for around 2 months, so far it has been a steady progression to worse balance. Seriously get your act together even the people on forums I disagree with have better solutions and grasps on how the game works than you seem to.

[Mechteric]

I still hope they look at increasing the heat of PPC/ERPPC individually (as Paul indicated they might), as thats the only way to deal with 2PPC/Gauss snipers in some fashion. Maybe also another increase in their refire rate so that brawlers have more of a chance against them.

But I guess when I play tonight I'll see how well its curbs other boats!

[Bloody Moon]

Kyocera, on 16 July 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

To all the whiners, how about you take your own F*****G advice for once - adapt or die!

Ahahah, you thought we point out the mistakes in this Heat mechanic 'cos we cannot/will not adapt?

Way ahead of you, most of my mechs were changed to reflect the new system two days ago, even had some practice in them to see if they are worse than the previous ones and they are roughly on the same level.

The only ones who are ****** over with this are the new players.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 16 July 2013 - 05:13 PM.

[xZaOx]

LL should be 4, or at the min 3. This kills the RS. LL aren't pin point and they drag. Especially if both mechs are moving. You can't chain fire LL like you can with ppc's. They are also not as long or quick as ppc's, why are in the same "boat" as them?

ML 6, LL 4, PPC 2.

[TostitoBandito]

I'm not whining, and hell I rarely even use any builds which would be effected by this. I just need to know from PGI exactly how this system works so I can plan accordingly. You don't make sweeping gameplay changes in a game like this and then leave it up to your players to figure out exactly how it changed and how things work now.