461 replies to this topic

[Flying Judgement]

ok i so since last pach i dieing a lot slower and able to take out 2-4 guy before i do. so the patch was a success But
i still see one or 2 ac 40 guys devastating a heavy mech with one shot.

shooting 3 ER PPC in chain fire makes random heat increases like i would shoot all of them at the same time.
Awesome needs an upgrade it become even worse than it was the 8Q 6 large lasser is useless now and the 9m 3 ppc 3 ssrm is unstable too. these guys getting cored wherry fast. they need a big punch at least or a new hit detection. or different heat
i dont see the difference in shooting 2 medium laser 1 large lasser 1 Large pulse and 2 ERppc at the same time from a close should do less heat
but well i can run this in an 8Q instead but this is a bigger alpha build...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...18654a294b37863

before i run this and it was hot before really hot already

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b3fbe854b536f60

[Flying Judgement]

I think we need collision and knock down If the mech don't meet the requirements to withstand a large force from its own cannons its falls on its back Jager could fly quet high or a ppc stalker no one wants to land on its back. but it can be fired if its needed with internal damage plus ending up on the ground then we would be able to use the king crab

[Flying Judgement]

Mr Andersson, on 23 July 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Having played with the new heat system for a while now I have realized that it didn't succeed. There is still a lot of boating going on. The penalties didn't eradicate boating, they just change the rules so that players had to adopt new styles of boating.


I have two different suggestions that take on a completely different approach to solving the problem.

Adjust hardpoints
The hardpoint system is a bit inconsistent, in my opinion. The fact that you can throw out a machine-gun and replace it wth an AC/20 seems a bit weird. I propose instead to have weapons of different "sizes" take up a different number of hardpoints.
For example, it could look something like this:
Small lasers take 0,5 energy hardpoints
Medium lasers take 1 energy hardpoint
Large lasers take 2 energy hardpoints
PPCs take 3 energy hardpoints
Machine-guns take 0,5 ballistic hardpoints
AC/2s take 1 ballistic hardpoint
AC/5s take 2 ballistic hardpoints
AC/10s take 3 ballistic hardpoints
AC/20s and Gauss rifles take 4 ballistic hardpoints
LRM5 and SRM2s take 1 missile hardpoint
LRM10 and SRM4 take 2 missile hardpoints
LRM15 and SRM6 take 3 missile hardpoints
LRM20 take 4 missile hardpoints

Of course, hardpoints on all mechs would have to be revised.

This would put an end not only to the 6PPC Stalker, but also to things like 2ERPPC Cicadas (which in my opinion should not exist either). It would also trash my GaussCat, but I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

As a secondary effect it would also make mechs more limited to which builds they can run and, as a consequence, more unique from each other.

Implement a spread penalty
Instead of getting a heat penalty when you are firing too many weapons of the same type, you would get a spread penalty, meaning that a percentage of each hit would go to a neighboring body part instead of to where it hits. The more weapons you fire, the higher the percentage.

I think this only needs to be added to the high damage, pinpoint weapons, ie PPCs, Gauss and AC/20.

but still the best idea is this hardpoint restriction

[jollyrancher1]

KhanHeir, on 25 July 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

And to add hilarity to this entire thing you complained about large pulse lasers getting a heat nerf, When if you read the dev diaries patch notes and followed the game, you would see that PGI is changing the way pulse lasers work soon.

This is the first I have heard. Where do I go to get such information.

[Veebora]

I think it was a good idea, but when I played I found the problem of increasing too much the complexity of playing.

I always use loadouts with 2 types of weapons, max 3 if I have LRMs. In that way I just have to use 3 weapons buttons as we already have to control speed, zoom, torso and legs.

Now even using 2 weapons systems loadouts you must create groups with the size of the penalty limits. Which can multiply the weapons keys to 4+.

What I use to like most in MWO was the simple play style as in World of Tanks, where you should master precision and positioning. But it is becoming something more like World of Warcraft with tons of buttons and complexities.

Last time I played with the new patch was the last until now, not much will to play that way.

[Sasha Volkova]

Veebora, on 26 July 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

What I use to like most in MWO was the simple play style as in World of Tanks, where you should master precision and positioning. But it is becoming something more like World of Warcraft with tons of buttons and complexities.

World of Warcraft being complex???
Have you played that game at all the last year or so?
The game has NOTHING complex remaining.
It is push 1 button to heal, 2 buttons to tank, 3 buttons to dps.
It is more simple than opening an unlocked door or taking a step.

If MWO ever becomes so simple it will remove any requirement of skill AT ALL. thus ending up in a huge pile of kiddos raging at eachother for using ¨OP¨ weapons and crying OP on the forum whenever they die.
...
...
You know what... Looking at that last part above me made me realize something, PGI might already need to start actively saving their own game.
It has already begun...
((the last part above is referring to the fact that if MWO became as simple as WOW it would be effed up so badly that it was beyond repair))

Edit: Parentheses added for clarity and to make the point clear for dear old grandpa who had troubles understanding what was actually written above and as such seems to have almost had a heart attack.

Edited by 0okami, 26 July 2013 - 05:50 AM.

[Veebora]

0okami, on 26 July 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

World of Warcraft being complex???
Have you played that game at all the last year or so?
The game has NOTHING complex remaining.
It is push 1 button to heal, 2 buttons to tank, 3 buttons to dps.
It is more simple than opening an unlocked door or taking a step.

If MWO ever becomes so simple it will remove any requirement of skill AT ALL. thus ending up in a huge pile of kiddos raging at eachother for using ¨OP¨ weapons and crying OP on the forum whenever they die.
...
...
You know what... Looking at that last part above me made me realize something, PGI might already need to start actively saving their own game.
It has already begun...

Dude, I don't know if you are a 16 years old kid with a lot of time and energy to research a lot of thinks, create macros, install addons and so.

But I am not, I have the right of playing what I like to play, and pay for it. Because I don't have time but I have money, that is what happens with most people, a trade.

Anyway I have the right of giving my opinion about what I like and what I don't.

Edited by Veebora, 26 July 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Sasha Volkova]

Veebora, on 26 July 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

Dude, I don't know if you are a 16 years old kid with a lot of time and energy to research a lot of thinks, create macros, install addons and so.

But I am not, I have the right of playing what I like to play, and pay for it. Because I don't have time but I have money, that is what happens with most people, a trade.

Anyway I have the right of giving my opinion about what I like and what I don't.

What are you talking about? macros?
Are you referring to wow?
HAHAHAHA that game had a ingame macro manager!
They even had 2 billion tutorials on how to use that thing.
If you never took the 2 minutes required to learn how to use that it was your own fault.
But dont worry.
the above example I made claiming it was 1 button to heal, 2 buttons to tank, 3 buttons to dps, was WITHOUT macros.
If you used anything more than 1 button to heal, 2 buttons to tank and 3 buttons to dps, then either you were wasting resouces such as mana/rage/energy or your team was useless.

Also ¨the right to play¨ what are you on about?
I never said anything about taking ¨the right to play¨ from anyone xD
Whats up with all your wild accusations there grandpa?
I have a suggestion for you.
Go find your reading glasses and try reading my previous post again.
NOT ONCE did i try to take your dear ¨rights¨ away from you or in any way whatsoever try to control you.
You just made me giggle so hard that I almost peed myself.
Please dont do that again xD

[RolloI]

Heat patch penalizes only the LLasaer-ppc boat ..... need increase the heat Lrm ...... unplayable and not fun take 80-90 lrm and that can not be avoided even being attached to a wall

[Guntherstreiker]

I really think this modification is a very bad idea.

When a mech or weapon has imbalanced characteristic, we can understand it can be nerfed (range or damages reduction, heat increasing, etc.), to avoid this item being spammed on the battlefield.

But here, this is not a characteristic adjustment. This is a modification which directly affects the gameplay.

First example or this use was about disturbing jumper mechs zoom. Personally, I’m not a fan of this kind of mechs, and players using them are really annoying me. But I must admit that the solution which has been given is really awful.

And now, to make happy some whiners who can't deal with snipe, devs gives a solution that directly affects the most basic pleasure that a player can enjoy in a mechwarrior game, which is the simple capacity to shoot with all weapons in the same time (so familiar that it gets a name : “to make an AlphaStrike”).

I won’t argue about the fact that this modification won't solve anything, WaddeHaddeDuda already did this very well (Stalkers will play 2 ppc + 2 er ppc to avoid penalty). Snipers will continue to snipe despite of this restriction, because this use is totally part of the game.

My point is more focused around unfair modification and losing game variety.

1) Unfair modification :
Thinking you’re making the game fair, you make the contrary because you favorise lighers mechs (lights to heavies) and disadvantage assaults, simply condemning some variants to be useless. For example, why should I play my Atlas RS instead of my Atlas DC if I'm limited to 2 ER PPC ? I prefer playing my DC and get ECM.
And finally, why should I play my Atlas DC which run to 50 if I can play my Dragon which can run to 90 and carry the same armament ? OK, Atlas have ECM and better armor, but he’s fat and slow, so better target.
You see the aberrations where we are falling ?

2) Losing game variety :
By leveling down with penalty the number of weapons that a players can use in an AlphaStrike, you finally get a game where all mechs has the same specifications, whatever the tonnage they have (for example : 2 ER PPC / 1 gauss), you destroy the variety and potential that the game can offer because players will lose the choice to specialize their armament, wich is problematic for a game where mech customisation is central (this is all the interest of getting a MechLab !).
Then devs should better give them uncustomizable variants like trials.

To summarize, instead of making modifications destined to make happy some people crying about snipers, and leveling down the game, you should on the contrary assume the fact that Mechwarrior is a brutal game, where assault mechs are WarGods, and thus should have greater firepower in an Alphastrike than smaller ones.

There will always be whiners and people crying against rules because they dont fit to their gameplay.
If you devs want that the words “Assault mechs” still keep a signification, you should go back fast and cancel this bad changing.

Edited by Guntherstreiker, 28 July 2013 - 07:30 AM.

[Grey Death Storm]

Alienfreak, on 23 July 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

People wanted Mech WARRIOR online and not Mech CHEESE or Mech BOAT online.

And if you happen to know at least a bit about MechWarrior or Battletech you also know that the builds we are seeing right now are closer to the spirit of MW and BT than anything we have seen the last few months.

We all know you are a fan of boating... (PPCs, Lasers, LRMs)
So stop your QQ and get your weapon chains ready!z

Why do you call it (Mech CHEESE or Mech BOAT online) for starters i don't understand why people refer to these builds as cheese builds or mech boating. if it works for that player and does damage to an enemy mech then its not a Cheese builds its a good build, now that does not mean say I agree mounting 6 PPC also Mack has told you best way to deal with these types mech.

Everyone has a right to try new builds in the Mechlab whether its a 5 pulse laser build, 6 PPC, or any laser build, the original Heat plan punished players fairly

if someone decides experiment with there builds that's their business at end of the day they came up with something that works for them. There are way to deal with PPC boat ether warn lance mates or use cover from buildings and mountains get up close and personal and there screwed because the original heat plan punished them fairly.

seems to be the way these days is to cry to developers change this or that because new players cant learn to deal with a situation or special build. Now the game is dull because everyone comes in more less same builds.

the fact some one came out with dangerous builds such as PPC Boat it adds some excitement and fear to game makes the game more interesting or would you guys like game where everyone has more less same things in every battle to me sounds boring plus takes away the joy to player who's created Frankenstein Monster

You cant balance a game by taking away the person right to experiment because you guys dont like that build, do that you destroy spirit of the game for everyone and make it dull

Edited by Death Storm, 28 July 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[AntharPrime]

There are plenty of canon boats out there and they are effective under the right circumstances AND they are just as vulnerable to a 3 SRM6 medium or light sneaking around them and blowing away their rear torso.

[Tennex]

the 0.5 cooldown feels kind of dumb. people using chain fire don't even fire at 0.5 seconds, they push the button as fast as they want to.

my suggestoin get rid of 0.5 penalty cooldown altogether.

Use same calculation for heat penalty. Split that penalty among all weapons being boated.

For example say 7 medium lasers generates 0.7 penalty for that extra laser. Split the 0.7 between all the lasers. Each laser fires at 7.1 heat, always.

[Alois Hammer]

Niko Snow, on 16 July 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Tell us what you think of the new Heat Scale Additions!

Just one more salvo in the war of "evolution" versus (the nonexistent here) "intelligent design."

[MasterC]

I thoroughly dislike the new heat penalty. It is an anti-boating nerf and an arbitrary one at that.

High alpha builds with pinpoint damage are still possible with mixed weapon loadouts (ie Gauss and PPC). The heat penalty merely incentivizes players to choose mixed weapon loadouts over homogeneous weapon loadouts.

High alpha builds with pinpoint damage were not OP. Even the much maligned 6 PPC Stalker had serious weaknesses which were easily exploitable. As it was the 6 PPC Stalker was just barely viable. Now it is a museum piece.

Loadouts without pinpoint damage are just as (or more) deadly than loadouts with high alpha pinpoint damage. For example, my Stalker 3H with 2 LRM 20s, 2 SSRMs and 4 MLs is significantly more powerful than my Stalker 5S 6 PPC boat. I've played hundreds of matches with each mech. With my 5S 6 PPC boat, I have a kill/death ratio of 2.09 and an average damage per match of 307 points. With my Stalker 3H, my kill/death ratio is 2.45 and with an average damage per match of 365 points. That's at least a 17% difference in favour of my mixed loadout Stalker 3H.

Half the fun of playing this game is coming up with new mech loadouts. The heat penalty has effectively reduced the number of loadout possibilities available to players. (In my own case 30% of my mechs were negatively affected). I don't see how less choice equals more fun.

The other half is killing mechs. Constantly moving the goalposts to make it harder and harder to kill mechs is not fun either.

In my view the heat penalty tried to fix something that was not broken and has unbalanced the game in the process.

PGI, if you are reading this, please ditch the anti-boating heat penalty. Don't change it. Don't tinker with it. Just get rid of it.

Edited by MasterC, 28 July 2013 - 11:16 AM.

[Bellarophon]

my 2 cents, the heat scale is garbage and annoying and I won't be playing until its gone or heavily reduced, let me play my mech the way i want

[Antarius]

Guntherstreiker, on 28 July 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

I really think this modification is a very bad idea.

2) Losing game variety :
By leveling down with penalty the number of weapons that a players can use in an AlphaStrike, you finally get a game where all mechs has the same specifications, whatever the tonnage they have (for example : 2 ER PPC / 1 gauss), you destroy the variety and potential that the game can offer because players will lose the choice to specialize their armament, wich is problematic for a game where mech customisation is central (this is all the interest of getting a MechLab !).
Then devs should better give them uncustomizable variants like trials.

To summarize, instead of making modifications destined to make happy some people crying about snipers, and leveling down the game, you should on the contrary assume the fact that Mechwarrior is a brutal game, where assault mechs are WarGods, and thus should have greater firepower in an Alphastrike than smaller ones.

There will always be whiners and people crying against rules because they dont fit to their gameplay.
If you devs want that the words “Assault mechs” still keep a signification, you should go back fast and cancel this bad changing.

... omg ...

how does "keeping you from alphastring" lower the varity of "useable" build? I would say it increase it, because you got a lot more non-alpha weapons (laser, mg, flamer, maybe lrm, ac2/5) and they got more useful.

btw. try to fire your weapons with different weapon groups, its not so hard :-)

still, its a nonsense system they implemented, it coops with some "issues" more by accident, but dont realy attacks the mainproblem:
a bit of divergence for weapons, to get some more a BattleTech feeling. (no i have no problems to aim and want to nerf you godlike aiming skills, if i want to play a game with pinpoint accuracy i play a normal FPS, and even the most of them have it only with a sniperrifle)


Alphastrike is an important game-"mechanic", for sure, but it shouldnt be a standard-firemode. Alphas are (depending on the Mech) for good situations but coming with a downside, heat (for the most cases, ballistics dont suffer from this, therefore they need ammo).
Set the heatcap to a reasonable level (e.g. in TT the penalties for your Mech started at 4 points overheat), you can still do what you want but have to pay your tradoff.

And weapon dont get bad because you cant fire it in huge amounts at the same secound! (Play an 3ppc awesome since closed beta never had a problem with the old ppcs, weapon-delay, high heat, slower rate of fire and fired them all the time in two groups and hit both groups in the some spot most of the time, this is skill so dont cry about your alphas...)

[tigerija]

Improve chain-fire feature!

Otherwise heat system is very clunky and makes game frustrating to use. Game mechanic that you are using almost all time (like firing weapons) has to be user friendly. Not frustrating to use.

Currently lots of people use autohotkey just to avoid that annoyance.
So 2+2PPC is fire 1st two fire 2nd two 0.5 seconds later.
So that is what Heat system did. Now there is gap of 0.5 seconds in between firing 2 PPC weapons.
That is fine but using it is way too frustrating because of how chain-fire works. You can only fire weapons 1 by 1 and pause in between is 1 second...

[Y2kHippy]

I am not reading 23 pages or commenting on other players post.

I can only post my opinion from my perspective taken from games played since the patch.


The instances of 4 PPC stalkers have not reduced as they instantly changed their builds to 2PPC + 2ERPPC if they were not previously. I have see only 2 4xPPC builds though several 6xPPC builds since the patch. The 6PPC stalkers are used for snipers that will take one single alpha strike shot and then move back under cover until cooled down so the meta will not change with this%

[Brkojle]

the idea for limit of hardpoints is the best.
Stupid but only workable idea so far.