545 replies to this topic

[Kilrein]

No, because it didn't address the core problems.

[Sturmforge]

Maybe they need to remove the 30 point heat cap all mechs get, base the heat cap on the number of heat sinks and what type you have (+1 single, +2 double), Then double or triple dissapation to match the increase in rate of fire. You could still run the 4 PPC Alpha Stalker but would have to stand still or shut down while firing. Though you could run an XL and be able to move at the same time though the XL is it's own weakness. This would also make single heat sinks and a lot of the Trial Stock Mechs viable again.

And yes I know this is a an old arguement

Edited by Sturmforge, 18 July 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Drehl, on 18 July 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

I know I'm going to attract the hatred of the "lol wut stupid pgi screw heat penatly" faction but:

Do you guys realise that this change isn't either a dedicated ppc nor a sniper nerf? And never was intented to be.

It is a boating nerf. It punishes masssive usage of one single weapon and firing it at once.
And it works.
There aren't that much 4 ppc stalkers alpahing all the time or ac40 jagers anymore. Even 6 srm6 splat cats are rare. (and seriously.. compared to a ac40s flood we had before, that splat cats are just adorable)
Yes I know there is still the dual ppc/erppc build but they announced that they're going to link these weapons at the end of the month, so stop stating that this is an easy way to work around the penalty -.-.
BUT you can still use this build if you want.. it just isn't the no-brainer option it used to be. Thats great.

So I voted yes. I like the change. Even when it's arbitrary and there is no locical cause of the magically appearing bonus heat.. doesn't matter as long as it helps to bring the meta back to more diverse builds.


High alpha meta is still no fun. There are still to much ppc/gauss. But there aren't that much stupid single weapon boats.

(remember: its a boat, not sniper nerf. 2ppc+ gauss isn't really a boat)


The only thing that bugs be of, is the very low threshold for large lasers. 3 large lasers or even 4 have never been as powerfull as 3 or 4 ppcs fired at once.. for the reason alone that they don't do pinpoint damage and you can easily spread their damage by torsotwisting.
I used to pilot my heavy metal, flame and trebuchet with 3 ll (and intendet to do the same with my viktor) but the change forced me to overthink my builds.
Now I have at least in my viktor joined the dark side and build in a gauss and 2 erppcs (because it's so much easier to use than 3lls...
That's the only point I could agree in with the "heat penalty is bad" guys.

Everything else is fine imo.
I'm sure they're going to adress the sniper meta and especially the slightly overpowered ppcs in future patches.
(and they said they're going to look into increasing the base heat of ppcs.. maybe thats already enough to bring them back in line.. who knows)

The problem is that carrying 2 AC20 is not boating by the community definition. Boating is more than 3 of a weapon. What is absolutely stupid is that the penalty is double the heat firing 2 ACs. and ACs are supposed to be cooler than Energy weapons.

[Drehl]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 July 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

...Boating is more than 3 of a weapon.

so.. an ac20 boat has to use 4 ac20 to be a "real boat"...?

[Wintersdark]

Drehl, on 18 July 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

I know I'm going to attract the hatred of the "lol wut stupid pgi screw heat penatly" faction but:

Do you guys realise that this change isn't either a dedicated ppc nor a sniper nerf? And never was intented to be.

Of course not, sniping is alive and well, and all the good sniper builds are still good sniper builds. Precious few were impacted at all.

PPC stalkers were never good sniper mechs - or even good builds at all, though the 2ERPPC/2PPC one was alright. It's only good in low-elo.

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It is a boating nerf. It punishes masssive usage of one single weapon and firing it at once.
And it works.

Well, this is correct... Kind of. It IS a boating nerf, but it's arbitrary, and nonsensial in many cases. 3LL penalty? Because that 27 point Alpha with a 1 second burn time was grossly overpowered, right?

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There aren't that much 4 ppc stalkers alpahing all the time

Fair enough. I understand and respect that this does improve quality of life in lower Elo brackets. It certainly doesn't affect my matches much at all, I rarely saw more than one PPC stalker every 3-4 games. But, if PPC stalkers were indeed so numerous and lethal in newbie Elo land, then sure, that's a good thing to fix.

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or ac40 jagers anymore.

Now, this, is idiotic.

Seriously. It's stupid.

Instead of AC40 jags, now you get AC20+2PPC Jags. It's a more dangerous build in every way, less ammo, same alpha, longer range, more free tonnage for a bigger engine or more weapons.

AC40 jags were never a problem.

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Even 6 srm6 splat cats are rare. (and seriously.. compared to a ac40s flood we had before, that splat cats are just adorable)

Sure, but not because of the nerf. Because Splatcat's aren't good mechs now. Even without the heat nerf, they're still not good.

Splatcats were lethal in the old days because the Splash bug was essentially a damage multiplier, and for lots of other reasons - none of which still apply. Splatcats are not dangerous mechs anymore, and this has nothing to do with the heat system.

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So I voted yes. I like the change. Even when it's arbitrary and there is no locical cause of the magically appearing bonus heat.. doesn't matter as long as it helps to bring the meta back to more diverse builds.

I'd argue the SRM change alone would have accomplished this. The most common build I saw before this patch? Gauss+2PPC. Without the slightest doubt, that was absolutely the most common build, on practically anything. Occassionally Gauss+3PPC, or ERPPC's, or what have you, but that was the most common build.

Now? I see SRM based builds, and Gauss/2+PPC builds.

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High alpha meta is still no fun. There are still to much ppc/gauss. But there aren't that much stupid single weapon boats.

(remember: its a boat, not sniper nerf. 2ppc+ gauss isn't really a boat)

Why is boating bad? Seriously? Why is AC40 bad, but a JM6-DD with AC20, 2PPC, and say 3 MG's is perfectly fine?

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The only thing that bugs be of, is the very low threshold for large lasers. 3 large lasers or even 4 have never been as powerfull as 3 or 4 ppcs fired at once.. for the reason alone that they don't do pinpoint damage and you can easily spread their damage by torsotwisting.
I used to pilot my heavy metal, flame and trebuchet with 3 ll (and intendet to do the same with my viktor) but the change forced me to overthink my builds.

While I dislike this system entirely (due to complexity, difficulty to communicate the specifics and reasoning to new players primarily) this is the only aspect that really chaffs my ***. I *loved* my 3LL builds, and while I do well in them I just can't get on board with the notion that somehow 3LL's is broken or overpowered. Sadly? I've replaced all my 3LL's with 2xPPC's. Saved a ton, less heat, 20 pinpoint damage instead of 27 damage spread all over the place because, alas, my opponents don't like to stand still for a second while I burn them.

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Now I have at least in my viktor joined the dark side and build in a gauss and 2 erppcs (because it's so much easier to use than 3lls...
That's the only point I could agree in with the "heat penalty is bad" guys.

Indeed.

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Everything else is fine imo.
I'm sure they're going to adress the sniper meta and especially the slightly overpowered ppcs in future patches.
(and they said they're going to look into increasing the base heat of ppcs.. maybe thats already enough to bring them back in line.. who knows)

I actually think increasing the base heat for PPC's will help somewhat - in as much as minor tweaks can help. The sniper will still use the same loadout, and still be successful, but at least he'll have to spend a little more time cooling between shots which increases his vulnerability up close. The real problem with the Gauss+2(ER)PPC sniper build right now is that it's lethal in close quarters combat as well as at range.

[MisterFiveSeven]

MaddMaxx, on 18 July 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Before you get to excited, can you confirm the Ravens load-out? Word is there are lots of Light units running "zero" armor to get more guns?

That makes a Small laser a one shot wonder as well. Save your Heat. lol

I suspect they were both stock 4X's.

The OD painjobs and the fact that they didn't see a stalker lining up a shot implies they weren't the most grizzled vets...

I actually felt guilty about it this morning though lol

[Aim64C]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 July 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Everyone in here is starting to sound like b.utthurt dwellers

Id rather deal with 2 salvos of 2 PPCs than 4 all at once, even if it only requires half a second more to fire them.

Thats a half second to torso twist, or get behind cover, spreading damage or totally avoiding it.
The change is across the board because they dont want people to die so easily, and the system isnt finished.

Not seeing what the huge problem is.

I've been playing MechWarrior for a long time. Not as long as some of these other guys have - but most of my life, I've been playing (since a teen playing Mech3 and discovering older iterations of the title).

The hardpoint system PGI insisted upon using was intended to control this problem.

MechWarrior 4 did a pretty decent job of controlling the problem with its hardpoint system. But PGI insisted that they wanted "more variety."

The problem is that they didn't think things through. They didn't realize the problem that would come from every medium laser on an Assault becoming a PPC (it's not like you could put an AC5 in that slot even if it would be a competitive build).

People like myself, involved in the design of this game before me, said that this very thing would happen and that they needed to refine their hardpoint system to work better with their weapons - or they needed to do some serious thinking about their weapons.

They changed the function of lasers to deal damage through time rather than up-front.

Once again - the PPC was forgotten.

The very thing 'we' warned about has come. It's the same problem every other MechWarrior game has suffered from (PPC) - and has been difficult to balance.

Other games balanced ballistics against the PPC. Mech4 completely shifted the ballistic hardpoint system to favor 'omni' slots compared to energy weapons (if you had the tonnage). Ballistic builds were not quite as restrictive in Mech4 as they have been in games that follow the TableTop format more strictly.

PGI paid no attention.

Now, rather than thinking about ways to fix what they already have - they've gone ahead with an entirely new layer of complexity that is already fraught with conundrums and programming complexities.

For example - the heat scale penalty with PPCs and ERPPCs is different, no? So... let's say I have 2 PPCs and an ERPPC linked together and fire all of them. Which one gets the heat scale penalty applied? The PPC? The ERPPC? If I link 2 ERPPCs and a PPC together, can I fire both ERs and then fire a single PPC for a smaller overall scale penalty?

It's just clunky as can be.

Or what if the 2ppc+gauss highlander is ruled to be too much? If you fire 2PPCs - then the gauss... what's the heat penalty?

Should it get the same heat penalty regardless of how the combination is fired (and does that have to be determined for each combination)? Or is that just "smart piloting?"

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1 Gauss 2 PPCs is better for gameplay than 1 Gauss 3 PPCs. It's a step in the right direction.

MechWarrior 4 had hardpoint systems in place that limited what builds could appear on the battlefield, considerably. A similar hardpoint system under the current laser mechanics would be quite effective (once PPCs, themselves, are balanced).

Why implement this insanity?

tsula, on 18 July 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

So your saying you want to have your high alpha's back. What if I told you they still can be made with skill, and though process. Sorry could not help myself.

This is the problem with forums.

Those of us who are calling it ridiculous are saying that it is ridiculous. We're not saying that we 'want our alphas back.'

The fact is that this game will always gravitate towards builds that deliver large amounts of precise damage over a short period of time. You don't get a prize for dealing 600 damage to a mech if all you've done is stripped off armor and done minor damage to internals. You get a prize for dealing 50 points of damage to the same location and getting to the tootsie-roll center.

If this were MechAssault - DOT and diffuse damage would be more comparable, since we'd be working with a very generalized health bar.

But that's not the case, and we don't want it to be the case.

Which is why this system, essentially, announces an official crusade by the developers to hunt down specific builds that are deemed 'too much damage' and find some kind of penalty for them.

Which is why it will be a virtually never-ending crusade. "20 points is too much without a penalty! Make 4 medium lasers generate 500 heat! They need to learn to chain-fire at speeds so slow that they may as well only carry one medium laser!"

Which is why we should all just get a single small laser and be done with it. Anything more is too much damage. Except for the machine-gun. Which will now generate +1 additional heat per gun-per-gun (3 MGs would generate 3 heat for each MG for a total of 9 when firing in an alpha).

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I'm cutting this short, because no matter how I tries to explain it makes the game better. I'll be told I am a brown noisier, stupid player, who can't figure out the be all to end all build. When one build is used and the others go by the way side its dull. All other weight classes become useless to the alpha arms race. The game becomes stale and stagnate. With this one little tweak that is not perfect by no means it has improved the other option to be competitive. I'm seeing more Light, Medium chassis coming back into the field because its not a get blasted in secs anymore. Ya they hurt but they learn and its not a instant you fail.

I've seen more assaults in my drops since this patch. Though I've been in a couple drops where there were hardly any assaults (though those were all conquests rather than assault missions).

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If you want a instant kill game their are tons of them coming out and already out. Please go find them, and stop slamming the community with negative remarks, non constructive feedback and discouraging new players from trying it out...... Not saying this is a perfect fix, but it did help the meta and we are seeing other builds come out besides the long range pop tart or turret builds.

That play style will return. The main reason you're seeing the shift is because everyone has been 'shocked' by the system and patch. SRMs received a 34% damage buff. PPCs and ERPPCs received some radical changes that people are going to test out slowly.

The initial reaction is often to over-react. People are avoiding the penalized builds like the plague because that's our instinct. In another 2 weeks, we're going to see strong indications of the meta returning. A month following that, we're going to be right back where we started.

The "additional time to react" won't really matter. People will be complaining about the 4 PPC build who sits there and rains long-ranged AC20s into them all day, and how the only way to counter that is to get your own 4 PPC build (possibly one willing to take the alpha penalty) to address the threat.

Why? Because the PPC needs to be balanced. Even if you increase the heat - the weapon is imbalanced in the core of its mechanics.

The Gauss Rifle and other weapon systems are going to get caught up in the collateral damage of whatever stupid idea gets implemented to deal with that.

[Wintersdark]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 July 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

The problem is that carrying 2 AC20 is not boating by the community definition. Boating is more than 3 of a weapon. What is absolutely stupid is that the penalty is double the heat firing 2 ACs. and ACs are supposed to be cooler than Energy weapons.

Yes!!

It's ABSURD that it's cooler (and more effective!) to run AC20+2xPPC instead of just 2AC20's. Ludicrous. The AC20's are bigger heavier(with ammo), require more explosive ammunition... I just hate that there's so much of this new heat system that encourages people to move to MORE PPC's.

[BattleGnome]

You know what's hilarious about the heat nerf? Splatcats and Jagerbombs still can work simply because of this one mechanic PGI made a long time ago: Weapon groups. When Splatcats were the ****, I would field mine with two weapon groups, 3 SRMs per weapon group. Guess what happens to be the SRM cap before heat multipliers? Chain fire each group, and no multipliers! This also works with the Jagerbomb. Simply put, this nerf is a joke.

The only good things that came with the patch are the SRM buff and heat threshold nerf. That was the right direction to go when it came to addressing the problem of long range alphas.

[TheDeckardCain]

Drehl, on 18 July 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

I know I'm going to attract the hatred of the "lol wut stupid pgi screw heat penatly" faction but:

Do you guys realise that this change isn't either a dedicated ppc nor a sniper nerf? And never was intented to be.

It is a boating nerf. It punishes masssive usage of one single weapon and firing it at once.
And it works.
There aren't that much 4 ppc stalkers alpahing all the time or ac40 jagers anymore. Even 6 srm6 splat cats are rare. (and seriously.. compared to a ac40s flood we had before, that splat cats are just adorable)
Yes I know there is still the dual ppc/erppc build but they announced that they're going to link these weapons at the end of the month, so stop stating that this is an easy way to work around the penalty -.-.
BUT you can still use this build if you want.. it just isn't the no-brainer option it used to be. Thats great.

So I voted yes. I like the change. Even when it's arbitrary and there is no locical cause of the magically appearing bonus heat.. doesn't matter as long as it helps to bring the meta back to more diverse builds.


High alpha meta is still no fun. There are still to much ppc/gauss. But there aren't that much stupid single weapon boats.

(remember: its a boat, not sniper nerf. 2ppc+ gauss isn't really a boat)


The only thing that bugs be of, is the very low threshold for large lasers. 3 large lasers or even 4 have never been as powerfull as 3 or 4 ppcs fired at once.. for the reason alone that they don't do pinpoint damage and you can easily spread their damage by torsotwisting.
I used to pilot my heavy metal, flame and trebuchet with 3 ll (and intendet to do the same with my viktor) but the change forced me to overthink my builds.
Now I have at least in my viktor joined the dark side and build in a gauss and 2 erppcs (because it's so much easier to use than 3lls...
That's the only point I could agree in with the "heat penalty is bad" guys.

Everything else is fine imo.
I'm sure they're going to adress the sniper meta and especially the slightly overpowered ppcs in future patches.
(and they said they're going to look into increasing the base heat of ppcs.. maybe thats already enough to bring them back in line.. who knows)

This guy gets it!!!

And apparently you are in the majority because it seems there are more yes's than no's....

Edited by TheDeckardCain, 18 July 2013 - 02:48 PM.

[Aim64C]

hammerreborn, on 18 July 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

You know, instead of typing all of that. A picture says a thousand words.

Hmm... You remind me of an interesting point of research: http://www.livescien...e-ignorant.html

The current shift in meta is actually better for my play-style. I run lights and mediums, primarily. I was effective before the patch - and am even more so, now.

The shift in the meta was overall beneficial - but the system used to do it is going to end up creating far more problems than it solves. The ultimate test of who is genuinely too incompetent to realize it? In the real world - those who can understand their environment and make successful predictions about how it will behave to lead to productive development are considered to be competent.

Time will show that my prediction was successful.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wintersdark, on 18 July 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Yes!!

It's ABSURD that it's cooler (and more effective!) to run AC20+2xPPC instead of just 2AC20's. Ludicrous. The AC20's are bigger heavier(with ammo), require more explosive ammunition... I just hate that there's so much of this new heat system that encourages people to move to MORE PPC's.

The point is I don't use PPCs on any Mech but my Atlas that is collecting dust. I could accept a +6 even a +9 But +24? Double the heat of firing 2 weapons? It is completely insane and the stupidest thing I have ever seen! Also a Hunchback IIC will self destruct if it double taps both UAC20s!

[Goose]

I'm surprised that's not the number they inflected on Gaussi …

[MisterFiveSeven]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 18 July 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

I just can't believe how short-sighted people are.

The fact that people are using varied builds after Tuesday’s patch has nothing to do with the new Heat Penalty.

As has been stated often, it doesn’t work right now and is easily circumvented. So anyone posting that as their reason is just outright wrong.

It’s SRMs being some what viable that has changed the meta, while people test. That might last a week, because they still suck.

But still, the short-sightedness is mind boggling. Are people going to ask for a heat nerf for using 2 gauss rifles next? What happens when PGI releases a mech like the Mauler? OH WAIT, they are PURPOSELY avoiding certain mechs and variants because their Heat Penalty can’t stop them.

And really in the end, which is always going to loom over every band-aid fix that PGI makes, what do you do when the Clans come out?

Are we just going to repeatedly make arbitrary changes to try and stop high damage alphas instead of tackling the core problems?

I’m waiting for this post “We’ve determined that the ability for Clan mech’s to mount 3 Gauss Rifles and an ER PPC, while still using an XL engine that only takes 2 critical slots in their side torso’s is too strong, so we are making it so Omni mechs cannot mount more than 1 Gauss rifle at a time. Sorry guys.”

Everyone defending the heat scale has avoided addressing this problem, because it is unassailable.

Alpha > everything else. I will change my loadout so that in however big of chunks the current gameplay mechanics will allow, I can place my shots for maximum effect. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS. If it's x4 chain-fired 2 by 2 ppc's, or mixed ppc/gauss, whatever.

THIS IS NO FIX FOR ALPHA. YOU MADE THEM SLIGHTLY LESS EFFECTIVE.

I love TT. I love large lasers. But, until there is something that prevents every weapon on a mech fired at once to hit the same spot, pinpoint damage weapons will always be better than duration or spread weapons. You are making extra, ARBITRARY, AND NONSENSICAL mechanics to change the opportunity cost of carrying a particular weapon. Alternatively, you can rebalance the weapons. Those are the only options.

I prefer the mechanic approach, I just wish they had picked one that wasn't so senseless, and if we're honest, intellectually offensive. Give me a reason, any reason, that by whatever space magic makes stompy robots go that this mechanic makes sense. Because if you don't, this will remain Call of Duty played in molasses.

Edited by MisterFiveSeven, 18 July 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[hammerreborn]

Aim64C, on 18 July 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Hmm... You remind me of an interesting point of research: http://www.livescien...e-ignorant.html

The current shift in meta is actually better for my play-style. I run lights and mediums, primarily. I was effective before the patch - and am even more so, now.

The shift in the meta was overall beneficial - but the system used to do it is going to end up creating far more problems than it solves. The ultimate test of who is genuinely too incompetent to realize it? In the real world - those who can understand their environment and make successful predictions about how it will behave to lead to productive development are considered to be competent.

Time will show that my prediction was successful.

So the system is benefitial and helps the meta, but it's bad because reasons?

Wow, you're a shining example of everything wrong with these forums.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I just love the fact that any time I bring up the potential of a 2 Gauss 2 PPC assault (which is very possible), all that is said is "Well they will just add Gauss Rifles into the penalty".

We're going to add heat penalties to a Gauss Rifle? Really? REALLY?!

I can't understand why everyone doesn't find that to be completely absurd. The AC/20 heat mechanic is bad enough. But now people want the Gauss Rifle, the weapon that literally personifies running cool, to add to the heat penalty.

hammerreborn, on 18 July 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

So the system is benefitial and helps the meta, but it's bad because reasons?

Wow, you're a shining example of everything wrong with these forums.

Sometimes I wish these forums worked so that when I ignore you, you stay ignored, alas the forums suck.

He said

Aim64C, on 18 July 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

The shift in the meta was overall beneficial - but the system used to do it is going to end up creating far more problems than it solves.

Can you still not read? Something can do good short term and screw everything up long term. Although I disagree that it's good short term.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Thunder Hawk carries 3 and 10 single BECAUSE 3 GAUSS ARE COOL RUNNING!!!!!

[Drehl]

Wintersdark, on 18 July 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

PPC stalkers were never good sniper mechs - or even good builds at all, though the 2ERPPC/2PPC one was alright. It's only good in low-elo.

Well, this is correct... Kind of. It IS a boating nerf, but it's arbitrary, and nonsensial in many cases. 3LL penalty? Because that 27 point Alpha with a 1 second burn time was grossly overpowered, right?

Fair enough. I understand and respect that this does improve quality of life in lower Elo brackets. It certainly doesn't affect my matches much at all, I rarely saw more than one PPC stalker every 3-4 games. But, if PPC stalkers were indeed so numerous and lethal in newbie Elo land, then sure, that's a good thing to fix.

Don't give me that low elo BS. I'm frequently playing with and against most of the contest winners and a lot of guys that know how to hit lights with their high alpha pinpoint ctfs and hgns... so I guess I can't be that bad.

I never mentioned the hex stalker. It is and was a bad build. You know it, I know it and all the other good players know it.
Nevertheless the 4 ppcs resp. 2ppc/erppc stalker was (and the latter is) a very common build.

Wintersdark, on 18 July 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Now, this, is idiotic.

Seriously. It's stupid.

Instead of AC40 jags, now you get AC20+2PPC Jags. It's a more dangerous build in every way, less ammo, same alpha, longer range, more free tonnage for a bigger engine or more weapons.

AC40 jags were never a problem.

I never had that much trouble with ac40 jagers either. 3 well placed hits and they are gone.
But you are right in this one. the 2ppc/ac20 jager is more dangerous. and still runs hotter than the old ac40 jager.
Actually it was already a better build before the heatpatch.. I'm wondering why they weren't more common...

Wintersdark, on 18 July 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

I'd argue the SRM change alone would have accomplished this. The most common build I saw before this patch? Gauss+2PPC. Without the slightest doubt, that was absolutely the most common build, on practically anything. Occassionally Gauss+3PPC, or ERPPC's, or what have you, but that was the most common build.[/size]

Now? I see SRM based builds, and Gauss/2+PPC builds.

Right. Most common gauss+ ppc, pure ppc/erppc. Pure ppc will be harder to make work now.

Why is boating bad? Because it is a much bigger nobrainer than everything else. As a light pilot I sometimes feel like the guy who brings a knife to an UT instagib match.

Better they fire or 2 different weapons with different projectile behavior than just one weapontype.

Edited by Drehl, 18 July 2013 - 03:34 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

hammerreborn, on 18 July 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

So the system is benefitial and helps the meta, but it's bad because reasons?

Wow, you're a shining example of everything wrong with these forums.

Hey, they could have taken out PPCs and removed the ability to install more than one AC/20 on every mech, and it would also have been "beneficial for the meta". Their system is more complicated, but it's still not good.

And it still fails to address some weapon combos (Gauss Rifle?) and nerfs weapon combos that were not deemed problematic (HBK 4P stock loadout, for example.)

[Joseph Mallan]

MustrumRidcully, on 18 July 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

Hey, they could have taken out PPCs and removed the ability to install more than one AC/20 on every mech, and it would also have been "beneficial for the meta". Their system is more complicated, but it's still not good.

And it still fails to address some weapon combos (Gauss Rifle?) and nerfs weapon combos that were not deemed problematic (HBK 4P stock loadout, for example.)

I noticed only the LRM 15 is on the heat list Only the AC20. Why are the rest not affected by this stupid system?