545 replies to this topic

[Aim64C]

subgenius, on 18 July 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

Yeah yeah, we're all smart snowflakes. We can pull out "special" program certificates to compare all day if you like, but that really doesn't help things now does it?

In your case, no.

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Since you've fallen from any real defense of your argument to a repeated cry of "I will be proven right in 2 weeks" and some odd political/social commentary non sequiturs, it's probably safe to say that you don't have much more than your assumptions.

While I love Barry - Dave has a point.

There's no strategy against crazy. Just like there's no argument against... well... stupidity.

You can sit there and explain, for hours on end, to a stupid person why he/she is about to do a stupid thing. They've done research on this. They aren't going to get it and are going to think you're stupid right up until the point where the stupidity of their idea capitulates into harmful and disastrous results.

Even then, most blame the issue on something else and keep going with the same destructive tendencies.

I suppose that, in the long run, makes me stupid for even trying to have a discussion I know will be fruitless. Or, perhaps, it's a crack in my generally cynical outlook; the inner optimist escaping despite what my mind knows to be the truth.

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Well, that and some anecdotal stories about the test server and references to others who have been illuminated. Since it's fairly pointless to go back and forth about who's in-game experience is more valid, we'll just have to let the numbers speak for themselves.

*shrug*

It's not as if this was going to be solved any other way.

I'll see you before then - but we'll revisit this conversation in a couple weeks. Should be entertaining.

[subgenius]

Aim64C, on 18 July 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

In your case, no.

*shrug*

It's not as if this was going to be solved any other way.

I'll see you before then - but we'll revisit this conversation in a couple weeks. Should be entertaining.

Yeah, it always is entertaining, and I also can't wait to see how this all turns out. Despite my claims regarding your arrogance (and oh boy, are they big) I certainly don't feel put out by any of this. In the future though, I'd refrain from tooting your own IQ horn. It really is unbecoming of a gentleman.

[Wintersdark]

Mystere, on 18 July 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

Did you consider the possibility that stopping alpha striking was not the goal, but instead reducing the frequency of continuous higher-damage (>40) alpha strikes? How do the changes succeed in that area? (It's a serious question as I haven't done any checking yet).

A serious answer: ONLY 3+ PPC or 2xAC20 alpha striking has been impacted significantly. Combinations of weapons that reach 40+ alpha are completely unchanged, so you can fire 2xPPC and AC20 until the cows come home with no trouble. There's still *zounds* of Gauss+2PPC and lots of Gauss+3PPC around - the 3PPC build does take a heat penalty, but it's not that crippling given the 45 point pinpoint 500+m alpha.

Close in SRM based alpha strikes are unaffected of course - the one heat penalty after 3 only impacts the splatcat, and it's terrible now even without the extra little bit of heat.

Seriously folks, I'm not crying to get my PPC stalker back, or my AC40 Jag. I'm not claiming the sky is falling: I don't think this system is going to do any real harm to the game. It's just a poorly designed system that doesn't really fix anything other than a couple "problem" builds... which were immediately replaced with similar builds.

There are lots of brawlers about, but that's to be expected because people have fantasized about non-broken SRM's for a really long time.

In the end: Every high pinpoint alpha assault build I had is either unchanged or uses more PPC's than it did before the patch.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 18 July 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

In the end: Every high pinpoint alpha assault build I had is either unchanged or uses more PPC's than it did before the patch.

Random Discussion That Never Happened said:

Player: So, what should I add to this mech?
Min/Maxer: PPC
Player: LPL?
Min/Maxer: PPC
Player: LL?
Min/Maxer: PPC
Player: 2 meds?
Min/Maxer: PPC
Player: LBX?
Min/Maxer: PPC... I meant Gauss
Player: SSRM?
Min/Maxer: Add a PPC
Player: Why not BAP?
Min/Maxer: PPC is better
Player: How about an ERPPC?
Min/Maxer: Do you already have 2 PPC?
Player: No?
Min/Maxer: Go PPC then
Player: Do I have to?
Min/Maxer: You'll thank me later.

[LTGear]

boomshekah, on 18 July 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

It´s a good system, it works and it´s going to stay.
The silent majority has spoken, deal with it.

Do you have same IGN? coz i'll be looking for u first

ok let us buy cool shot 5x with mc's maybe that's what you expect from us so be it

but if we can't use coolshots 4x pls roll it back

Edited by LTGear, 19 July 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[TheGreatNoNo]

Needs some working. Need to be able to fire another LL, medium lasers should not be on that list and small lasers (never EVER outside of closed beta heard someone say something about them) but other then that it is decent. Starting to see more mediums lately and more AC based assaults.

[Kahoumono]

I don't know what to vote. The restriction took away some of the worst offenders but it totally does not solve the high alpha problem. The penalties just shifted the issue to other weapon groups cause most mechs just swap out the penalized weapon and tossed on some SRMs. The mechs affected where mostly heavies and assaults anyways, there is little difference to a light or medium whether they take 3xPPCs+gauss or 2xPPC+gauss+SRMs.

[Demos]

I abstain from my vote. Why?

The system implemented is too arbitrary. Hardpoint restrictions and convergence would be a definetly better solution. So I don't want to vote that I LIKE this system.
Nevertheless, despite the failings, gaming experience post-patch is better than pre-patch.

[MisterFiveSeven]

subgenius, on 18 July 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

Different speeds. Different ranges. Not so much pinpoint. You're apparently interested in showing clever ways to try and boat, but none of your ideas are terribly dangerous. The issue people have been freaking out about (PPC maina!) is looking pretty well resolved.

Where is this coming from? Do you play with mechs that mix ppc+gauss? Can we even be playing the same game if this keeps getting stated when my personal experience is wildly different (I can't be the only ******* that can aim)?

It is not difficult to put 45 damage on anything's ct over 40 tons while it's moving full speed at 800m. End this idea, please.

[Roughneck45]

Im really trying to reserve my judgement until ER and standard PPC's are grouped together.

Because right now, it hasn't fixed a damn thing. The SRM buff is the only positive change.

Until the PPC types count as one were not going to see much improvement.

[Rippthrough]

subgenius, on 18 July 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

Different speeds. Different ranges. Not so much pinpoint. You're apparently interested in showing clever ways to try and boat, but none of your ideas are terribly dangerous. T

You really think that? Are you playing the same game?
Because that has been THE alpha build since the highlander arrived. It's always been the meta build for the cataphract 3D (better than the PPC boating ones in fact).
I have no issues hitting one spot on a mech 1km away with it as an alpha, neither do hundreds of other players.

Roughneck, I honestly don't think it'll make any difference, they'll either just suck up the extra heat penalty (lets face it, when you're brawling you mainly use the ER and the Gauss anyway) at range or just switch to 3PPC's and the penalty will be similar to the 2PPC + ER build anyway.

Edited by Rippthrough, 19 July 2013 - 04:51 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Rippthrough, on 19 July 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

Roughneck, I honestly don't think it'll make any difference, they'll either just suck up the extra heat penalty (lets face it, when you're brawling you mainly use the ER and the Gauss anyway) at range or just switch to 3PPC's and the penalty will be similar to the 2PPC + ER build anyway.

Possibly, but then we at least get to see the system functioning. Maybe the heat will be too much.

Currently, we have no idea, because everyone is just bypassing it by swapping in a single ER lol.

Im still hoping for a reduction in projectile speed, but it looks like the devs are really attached to how it is performing right now.

Edited by Roughneck45, 19 July 2013 - 05:01 AM.

[Rippthrough]

To save cross posting elsewhere, have a look at this and see what you think:

http://mwomercs.com/...n/page__st__360

It was suggested months ago by myself and few others but I think it got lost in the LRM apocalpyse threads at the time.

[3rdworld]

Rippthrough, on 19 July 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

To save cross posting elsewhere, have a look at this and see what you think:

http://mwomercs.com/...n/page__st__360

It was suggested months ago by myself and few others but I think it got lost in the LRM apocalpyse threads at the time.

Lower cap, higher dissipation has been talked about before.

While it would effectively solve most of the alpha meta, devs have simply said "we thought about it but, no".

The only weapons that would skate by, would have been the Gauss and possibly the AC/20. Both of which could have been fixed with an increase in CD.

[Rippthrough]

3rdworld, on 19 July 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Lower cap, higher dissipation has been talked about before.

Yeah, I know, often, but I'm hoping it might get taken a bit more seriously this time.

[Amsro]

Other then SRM's making a comeback, I see no real difference in ER/PPC's, just slow them down a tad or increase the heat a bit.

The boating penalty is a funny one.

[Chavette]

This poll is outdated, as it was started before paul spilled all the beans.

Amsro, on 19 July 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

Other then SRM's making a comeback, I see no real difference in ER/PPC's, just slow them down a tad or increase the heat a bit.

The boating penalty is a funny one.

The srms are making a comeback because of the srm buff, not the alpha stuff...

[boomshekah]

LTGear, on 19 July 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Do you have same IGN? coz i'll be looking for u first

ok let us buy cool shot 5x with mc's maybe that's what you expect from us so be it

but if we can't use coolshots 4x pls roll it back

Yea, please bring the lamest high alpha build you can think of and you shall see the error of your ways!
Come at me bro!!!

[Elizander]

I've had entire teams charging up hill towards where I am. Can't be so bad. Normally I have to hide for 80% of the match as a brawler if I can't flank the enemy. I'll play a few more games later and see how it goes.

I also have 2 PPCs, a Gauss, and a Large Laser on my Atlas. Totally legit.

[Brilig]

Honestly no I don't like the new penalties. They are better than nothing, but there were several other ideas that would have made more sense.

As far as heat related solutions go lowering heat capacity was a decent idea. Maybe tweak single, and double heat sinks so they have actual advantages/disadvantages. I also think degrading your mechs ability to function at high heat levels was a good idea.(slower twist, acceleration, etc..)Those ideas would also be easier to understand for new players, much better than having to look up how many of each weapon you can fire at any given time.

I still think the root issue is mostly convergence related. After ask the devs 42 it doesn't seem like a convergence tweak will be possible.

Edited by Brilig, 20 July 2013 - 02:45 AM.