545 replies to this topic

[SixBottles]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 16 July 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

I'm surprised so many people seem to like it.

I'm curious about what they specifically like about it?

Do they feel there is a difference taking an alpha from 3 PPC's and a Gauss vs. 4 PPC's?

YOU, Warge, aniviron, FupDup and 5 others who like this, dont seem to understand the difference between 28 tons VS. a minimum of 39 tons + the disadvantage a fragile weapon...

Edited by SixBottles, 20 July 2013 - 02:51 AM.

[FupDup]

SixBottles, on 20 July 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

YOU, Warge, aniviron, FupDup and 5 others who like this, dont seem to understand the difference between 28 tons VS. a minimum of 39 tons + the disadvantage a fragile weapon...

How often,exactly, do you see people shooting for a Highlander's arm (the place where it holds ballstics)?

By the way, making high alphas take more tonnage doesn't remove high alphas from the game, because pinpoint damage to a single location (usually the CT) is still the most effective way to kill a mech (other than lights and zombie Cents).

[subgenius]

Keep repeating yourself fup... eventually it might come true.

In game now. Having a blast.

[FupDup]

subgenius, on 20 July 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Keep repeating yourself fup... eventually it might come true.

So you're telling me you see people aiming at a Highlander's ballistic arm often?

subgenius, on 20 July 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

In game now. Having a blast.

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 20 July 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

So you're telling me you see people aiming at a Highlander's ballistic arm often?

I don't know. I myself go for the side torsos, usually from the back. Kills two birds, or three, with one stone.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

This poll is biased because it implies that the system has actually restricted boating.

Edited by Narcisoldier, 20 July 2013 - 10:24 AM.

[Lord de Seis]

The game is playable once more, it was a good change

[Enth]

Since the patch, I've seen no difference. Boating still exists, though I don't see nearly as many PPC stalkers as I used to.

- Still see A/C 40 Cats and Jaegers.
- See more Assault mechs sporting twin LRM20's. or triple LRM10's.
- See LOADS of twin ERPPC+Gauss on ANYTHING that can mount them.
- See a few more "brawler" builds, but nothing to pay much mind to, since most people are already pretty much cored CT or dead by the time they close to 270 meters anyway.
- I see ALOT more twin ERPPC Cicadas and lights carrying PPC's. (Really, PGI? is this what it's come down to?)

As has been said before repeatedly in this thread and other threads just like it, the patch has done nothing to fix the problem. It's a band-aid solution applied to the wrong limb. Inner Sphere 'Mechs are not, and should not be treated as "Omnimechs".

I know I'm probably going to be flamed mercilessly for even suggesting this, but If you want to "FIX" the problem, make I.S. Chassis static...that is to say, the configuration the 'Mechs come with from the factory are LOCKED. What you buy is what you get. Learn to play with the loadouts AS THEY'RE DELIVERED TO YOU FROM THE FACTORY FLOOR...instead of giving people the chance to build ridiculous high-Alpha builds into mechs that aren't designed for them. What's the point of having Mech Variants if the nanosecond after someone buys a chassis he/she strips the 'mech bare and then reconfigures it to take advantage of the current Meta?

Guess it would take too much "fun" and "skill" out of the game if people actually had to learn to maximize their own skill to pilot an "underpowered" 'mech, huh...

[tigerija]

What about 3rd option? I cant say I like or dislike it since there is no reason to.

I would say its minor positive feature added for some, and large negative thing for others.

It does not affect gameplay almost at all. At least not on scale it is supposed to.

Negative side of it is that all new players that are not crazy about this game will have no clue how this works. They will recieve that heat penalty without being aware of it. Will look like random stuff is going on for them.

Edited by tigerija, 20 July 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Trev Firestorm]

Enth, on 20 July 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Guess it would take too much "fun" and "skill" out of the game if people actually had to learn to maximize their own skill to pilot an "underpowered" 'mech, huh...

The customization is 85% of the appeal of these games, so yes it would remove most of the fun of the game.

[Enth]

Trev Firestorm, on 20 July 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

The customization is 85% of the appeal of these games, so yes it would remove most of the fun of the game.

Then maybe it should appeal to a smaller demographic...

[MechFrog1]

While they're waiting for the heat scale noise to die down, veteran players are leaving. They won't be replaced by new players.

[zazz0000]

Enth, on 20 July 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Learn to play with the loadouts AS THEY'RE DELIVERED TO YOU FROM THE FACTORY FLOOR...instead of giving people the chance to build ridiculous high-Alpha builds into mechs that aren't designed for them. What's the point of having Mech Variants if the nanosecond after someone buys a chassis he/she strips the 'mech bare and then reconfigures it to take advantage of the current Meta?

Then 1/2 of the ppl swarm for AWS-9M, which ships stock with 3 erppc, mpl, spl, ssrm2, 20 DHS...

[Enth]

And then they have to deal with the heat. but it would be their choice to buy that variant. There would be more variety in the game other than the current meta.

[Unbound Inferno]

SixBottles, on 20 July 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

YOU, Warge, aniviron, FupDup and 5 others who like this, dont seem to understand the difference between 28 tons VS. a minimum of 39 tons + the disadvantage a fragile weapon...

An up-front alphastrike that'll have the chance to kill the enemy before they kill you?

Not much difference really...

[Trev Firestorm]

Enth, on 20 July 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Then maybe it should appeal to a smaller demographic...

Then call for a stop to 3pv and support one of the actually good anti-alpha systems that have been suggested, removing customization would quite simply kill the game, playing around in the mechlab is all that breaks up deathmatch,deathmatch,deathmatch.

[keith]

FupDup, on 20 July 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

How often,exactly, do you see people shooting for a Highlander's arm (the place where it holds ballstics)?

By the way, making high alphas take more tonnage doesn't remove high alphas from the game, because pinpoint damage to a single location (usually the CT) is still the most effective way to kill a mech (other than lights and zombie Cents).

i used to try to do this all the time and told ppl it was a way to take out 732's. yet ppl whined they were OP. the guass blast ripped out most of that T leaving norm only 1 ppc. that is y most of this community is herp a derp and we have this wtf system paul made

[Heldar1]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 16 July 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

yup, love it. cant wait for gauss penalties and er/normal linkages.

every game today was better, and the only huge offender now is the gauss boat.

which id like to see take a 1 second recycle penalty when alpha striking.

The guass already has a penalty. Its called taking 7 tons, 15 critical slots, 10 rounds per ton of ammo and being made of a material 5 times weaker than paper mache causing an explosion like ammo. Thats big enough penalty for a weapon that cant be 'boated"(two on a single mech isn't a boat). People need to stop whining about the guass. It has its limitations and detriments.

Maybe the issue isn't this fancy heat limitation thing they just implemented. Maybe the issue isn't the guass being "ERM MAH GEEERRRDDD!!! SO OP!!!". Maybe its the fact that the PPC and ERPPC are still running at a buffed heat level (waaaay back in the day when hit registration was extremely terribad), and CAN be boated with 4+ many mechs.

[skullman86]

It seems to have had some effect on what people use, but I disagree with the change because I think it's a convoluted solution to an easily solved problem. It's like their fix for ECM -- they gave everything around it some kind of buff to offset the broken design instead of actually looking into ECM's (and streak's to some degree) functionality.

My problem with this fix is illustrated perfectly in the heat scale post. Paul used a 4 PPC stalker as an example as if it were perfectly normal, and that says a lot about the future of the game. Personally, I don't think stalkers should be allowed to run 4+ PPCs -- I think the stalker chassis should be limited to missiles and lasers with maybe a little room for a PPC or two. PGI is giving IS mechs this much freedom because they are worried about Clan v IS balance or they want people to feel like they have unlimited options (clearly not the case when everyone flocks to high upfront damage builds instead of mixing it up).

Mechs need to be forced into roles for this game to be balanced. You give them just enough space to play around with loadouts, but you keep them on a short leash so they don't go trying to stack a bunch of precision weapons for easy kills. Don't get me wrong, I think high alphas are a legitimate tactic, but everyone is using their hardpoints for high damage, direct fire alphas because it is the path of least resistance. If you force people to use indirect fire weapons (dodge-able) or lasers (damage over time) through hardpoint sizes, you can balance the way players fight and deal damage.

The assault class, for example:

Atlas: Should be used as a jack of all trades. Main focus should be the cannon and then a mix of lasers and missiles. Sizes for weapons will vary based on the choices made by the player, but there should be few or no PPCs involved when loading one up.

Highlander: Jack of all trades with JJs; minimal PPC use except for the 733p

Stalker: Main focus should be missiles followed by some smaller energy weapons. Personally, I wouldn't allow more than two PPCs, that way the player still has a reason to fall back on missiles (otherwise what is the point of having missile hardpoints?). Straight energy should not be the first thing that pops into someone's head when making a loadout for a mech like this. We have a chassis made for energy boating and everyone ignores it because its role has been stolen by the stalker's flexibility.

Awesome: The only Assault that should be boating PPCs. It's an energy platform first and foremost and it has a couple of variants capable of using missiles as secondary weapons.

Victor: Fast jack of all trades with JJs; minimal PPCs use

Hardpont sizes/restrictions should be based on the stock loadouts. Give mechs some flexibility so that they can carry slightly larger weapons or change the way the loadout is balanced, but do not give them the freedom to completely neglect a whole set of hardpoints to exploit another...that is why we have the problems we have. Giving mechs their roles back will eliminate the need for this overcomplicated penalty system.

Edited by skullman86, 20 July 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[Amsro]

This is the one moment in time I wish SRM's hadn't been buffed, if they were still 1.5 no one would be using them and we would see once and for all that this NEW system has had ZERO effect on the Meta game.

I'm sure half of the YES voters have been deceived by this change of loadouts, people are just trying srms again. ER/PPC's are still just as effective.

Edited by Amsro, 20 July 2013 - 02:41 PM.