19 replies to this topic

[Corka]

One of the things that came out of the E3 interview was that the developers are endeavouring to make it so each mech will be able to fulfill a certain role instead of simply everyone jumping into the biggest Assault they can get their hands on. The example they gave was with light mechs, stating that it is possible to use them as scouts and they have the ability to harry heavier mechs, and have a few other tricks (NARCing maybe?).

But one thing that wasn't mentioned is how do you balance it so those in the middle actually have a role? I think trying to justify bringing heavies onto the field instead of the assaults might be the hardest.

[GrizzlyViking]

Corka, on 10 June 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

One of the things that came out of the E3 interview was that the developers are endeavouring to make it so each mech will be able to fulfill a certain role instead of simply everyone jumping into the biggest Assault they can get their hands on. The example they gave was with light mechs, stating that it is possible to use them as scouts and they have the ability to harry heavier mechs, and have a few other tricks (NARCing maybe?).

But one thing that wasn't mentioned is how do you balance it so those in the middle actually have a role? I think trying to justify bringing heavies onto the field instead of the assaults might be the hardest.

This first: http://youtu.be/LbC7w9SN3oE?t=1m46s

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 10 June 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

1. With that logic, what would be the point of Mediums either
2. Heavy mechs retain some speed, but more firepower than lights/mediums
3. There are some REALLY nasty heavy mechs.
4. I plan on piloting a heavy mech, because I like having speed but the survivability and firepower that a heavy has, also they make good "sluggers"
5. I dont know why I'm numbering this lol
6. Not everyone wants to pilot a light, medium, or assault.
7. Have faith in the devs
8. I might add more in a bit....

[GrizzlyViking]

Corka, on 10 June 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

One of the things that came out of the E3 interview was that the developers are endeavouring to make it so each mech will be able to fulfill a certain role instead of simply everyone jumping into the biggest Assault they can get their hands on. The example they gave was with light mechs, stating that it is possible to use them as scouts and they have the ability to harry heavier mechs, and have a few other tricks (NARCing maybe?).

But one thing that wasn't mentioned is how do you balance it so those in the middle actually have a role? I think trying to justify bringing heavies onto the field instead of the assaults might be the hardest.

Now this:

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 10 June 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[Yuba Frank]

Didn't I read in here somewhere that they are encouraging those new to mechwarrior to start in heavies and assaults?

Anyway, bringing heavies in is easier than you may think. They are either slightly faster or a bit faster than assaults, carry a decent amount of armor in most cases, and a decent weapons loadout. A couple of heavies can ruin an assault's day especially if the pilots are good. Heck, even a well piloted heavy can be match against a less experienced or equally piloted assault.

What the assault mech jocks need to worry about is becoming missle magnets. Also getting into confrontations with higher speed, quicker turning lights and mediums where it is 1 assault defending against two or more. I'd take a Cataphract over the Atlas for maneuverability. The speed and JJ would allow me to turn and burn, bringing by dual ac's and lasers to bear before the Atlas can get me inside the firing arc.

[GrizzlyViking]

Corka, on 10 June 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

One of the things that came out of the E3 interview was that the developers are endeavouring to make it so each mech will be able to fulfill a certain role instead of simply everyone jumping into the biggest Assault they can get their hands on. The example they gave was with light mechs, stating that it is possible to use them as scouts and they have the ability to harry heavier mechs, and have a few other tricks (NARCing maybe?).

But one thing that wasn't mentioned is how do you balance it so those in the middle actually have a role? I think trying to justify bringing heavies onto the field instead of the assaults might be the hardest.

Finally this:

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 10 June 2012 - 07:07 PM.

[Evedro Solais]

But every 'Mech does have a role. Either I'm piloting it, or it's smoldering remains are decorating the landscape

[Diomed]

1.) Make it so Light Mechs are the only ones able to relay enemy targeting information to other friendly mechs.

2.) give Medium Mechs a bonus to C-Bills so that they are they most cost effective to run in terms of repairs and replacement costs, also give them the most slots in the matchmaker

3.) give heavy mechs a bonus to long-range fire and allot them more slots per battle than assaults

4.) Assaults should have to wait longer in the queue for battles as the matchmaker attempts to fit them into the limited assault slots alloted for them

[Team Leader]

Diomed, on 10 June 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

1.) Make it so Light Mechs are the only ones able to relay enemy targeting information to other friendly mechs.

2.) give Medium Mechs a bonus to C-Bills so that they are they most cost effective to run in terms of repairs and replacement costs, also give them the most slots in the matchmaker

3.) give heavy mechs a bonus to long-range fire and allot them more slots per battle than assaults

4.) Assaults should have to wait longer in the queue for battles as the matchmaker attempts to fit them into the limited assault slots alloted for them

No offence but I don't think those are the best ideas for the game they seem too restrictive. So I humbly disagree, but I cannot provide any input of my own on the subject at this time.

[Orion Pirate]

Mech costs will be a factor for what makes a mech viable or usable to a player.

Playstyle will play a HUGE role in the selection of a mech chassis. This is key!

So where are medium mechs? Fast, well armored, well armed, costs are less then the heavies/assaults.

If you like a fast mech, but want to live a little longer then playing in a light mech, then a medium mech will fit your needs nicely. Remember the role warfare will also determine the mechs you choose to play.

[Corka]

Yes I was thinking that the mediums might also struggle to find a role on the battlefield. One possibility is that they could be a light killer, since they won't be kited and harried as easily as an assault. But I'm still dubious at the effectiveness of speed over armour and firepower though given the existence of pinpoint weaponry like the gauss rifle and energy weapons. Yes, a medium or light might be harder to hit, but this is not a problem for someone who is skilled with these pinpoint weapons- they'll hit regardless.

Watched the videos, and it was the first one that prompted me to make this thread in the first place. The subsequent two really don't adequately answer this question. They state that the mediums are the 'workhorse' mechs and what you will see most commonly. That might be so in the canon, but I suspect that is more because of cost rather than because of the effectiveness of mediums. In reality in a competitive match where anyone can pick whatever mechs they want, I really doubt you would pick a team full of mediums to fight a team full of assaults. According to that video, the role of the hunchback is a 'brawler', but really can it brawl in the higher weights? Maybe with some of the heavies, I certainly wouldn't expect it to be able to against an Atlas, unless MWO makes some significant departures to previous games in the franchise.

Then in the heavy video we get shown the catapult, which is a nice mech, but as far as missile boats though they get made redundant by mechs like the Longbow. The only advantage the catapult has is about 10 km/h speed difference, but the Longbow can field much bigger missile weaponry.

Thats not to say that you can do well in a mech lighter than an assault, its just a quick as to whether you'll be playing with a handicap.

[Unflappable]

Here's an idea: make jump jets a built-in feature for light and medium mechs. Also, make it so that the lighter the vehicle, the longer the jump jets last.

Imagine seeing light and medium vehicles traverse hills and other terrain with ease, making them great for capping flags and capturing points. Heavies and few assault vehicles should be able to mount jump jets, but they should only be able to go a fraction as high compared to the lighter mechs.

Another idea would be to give light and medium mechs a kind of nitro speed booster. Give it a cooldown like the jump jets, but only make it last a short while. This will give lighter mechs a better chance to get away compared to the heavy and assault chassis.

To summarize:

Light mechs should have long jump jets and high speed nitro boosters
Medium mechs should have average jump jets and average nitro boosters
Heavy mechs should have short jump jets and short nitro boosters
Assault mechs should have no jump jets and no nitro boosters (with a few exceptions)

[WardenWolf]

If they do some form of balancing or capping based on tonnage (or some analog of battle value) per side in a battle then it will help balance the mechs played. For example, say your side can only bring 800 tons - you may end up with 4 light mechs, 4 meds, 3 heavies and 3 assault to fit in that tonnage. You couldn't have all assaults, and if you had 6 assaults and 6 light mechs you may not end up with a viable enough mix to win the battle.

[Unflappable]

WardenWolf, on 10 June 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

If they do some form of balancing or capping based on tonnage (or some analog of battle value) per side in a battle then it will help balance the mechs played. For example, say your side can only bring 800 tons - you may end up with 4 light mechs, 4 meds, 3 heavies and 3 assault to fit in that tonnage. You couldn't have all assaults, and if you had 6 assaults and 6 light mechs you may not end up with a viable enough mix to win the battle.

The problem with this idea is it would make it unfair/unfun to players forced to choose mechs they don't want to play.

In a perfectly balanced game, it shouldn't matter what combination you choose. The combination should be optimized around strategy, not some arbitrary weight limitation. A lance of light and medium mechs might be better in ctf but worse in king of the hill or straight up deathmatch. The reverse would be true for a heavy and assault lance.

This makes it fun because in casual, pub matches you can choose whatever mech you want to play, but in more serious matches, you'd have to choose the perfect combination of light, medium, heavy, and assault mechs required to fit the role. It would also allow for an interesting metagame to develop-- imagine seeing a full lance of assaults getting stomped by a full lance of lights or something of that sort.

[rarafungi]

While developers may say that the advantage of medium tanks only at a lower price.
Perhaps they will be able to solve this problem with the maps design or rebalancing mech speed.
Maybe in medium mech there will be more mounting points for the modules EW.

[Major Bill Curtis]

The current batch of medium 'mechs is a bit strange, but I've always found them to be excellent hunter-killers, used for destroying enemy scouts, which will actually be important in MW:O. An up-engined Centurion will own many a Jenner.

The Centurion and Hunchback will make excellent ambushers and perimeter security 'mechs for the fire support (Centurion, Hunchback, and a pair of Catapults is a versatile and useful lance, if slow for a medium/heavy group)

Edited by Major Bill Curtis, 10 June 2012 - 08:38 PM.

[Freyar]

Take a small mech. Let it get run over by a heavy. Mech roles.

[Orion Pirate]

Corka, on 10 June 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

Yes I was thinking that the mediums might also struggle to find a role on the battlefield. One possibility is that they could be a light killer, since they won't be kited and harried as easily as an assault. But I'm still dubious at the effectiveness of speed over armour and firepower though given the existence of pinpoint weaponry like the gauss rifle and energy weapons. Yes, a medium or light might be harder to hit, but this is not a problem for someone who is skilled with these pinpoint weapons- they'll hit regardless.

You forget that lasers are Damage over Time weapons. So sure you hit the fast moving medium, but since the mech is moving fast, the damage is spread over a larger area of the mech, mitigating it.

Ballistic weapons are on hit, but if you miss, you just wasted ammo. Faster targets are harder to hit, even with skill, so it will make pilots work for the kill.

Just one way to look at how the lighter/faster mechs will be valuable in the game, outside of their roles used by their team.

[Woodstock]

Corka, on 10 June 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

One of the things that came out of the E3 interview

Errrr what E3 interview????

[Davers]

This again??

The Devs have stated many times that there are plenty of advantages of playing a medium over a heavy or assault. In fact all the classes of mechs can fight each other- not saying a light can go toe to toe with an assault, but it can circle him and pick him away to nothing.

Medium mechs have better speed, better acceleration, better torso-twist. These are very real in game advantages.

All mechs are viable, just not in the same roles or played the same way.