57 replies to this topic

[Sug]

Alwrath, on 17 July 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

LBX10 works just fine for me. It has always been a close range weapon, so if you have good speed and are using a short/medium range brawling config it does just fine at 150m or less.

Combined with srm's you can strip armor off a mech real quick and your lasers will finish them off.

Can everyone please stop posting how they "feel" about the LBX. Other weapons are better.

Alwrath, on 17 July 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Just tested against a Catapult in testing grounds at exactly 100m and it took 12 shots to kill it. Its a decent weapon because it generates less heat and weighs less than some of the ac weapons out there.

Hey guess what. An AC/10 would kill that Cat in about 7 shots at 100m

And at 200m,

and at 300m

and at 400m

and at 500m....

Sug, on 17 July 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

What is the point of the LBX if you need to get so close that the pellets form a slug?

Edited by Sug, 17 July 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[Deathlike]

Sug, on 17 July 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Can everyone please stop posting how they "feel" about the LBX. Other weapons are better.

No, however I feel that LBX is still the biggest junk weapon that actually consumes serious tonnage and crits. I feel bad when LBX tickles me.

Is that a better response?

[Booran]

I like it, it's not "good" as in you can't cheese build it for easy mode but I've had success in hunting lights and mopping up armour-stripped mechs which I reckon is it's intended purpose.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

QUOTE " Hey guess what. An AC/10 would kill that Cat in about 7 shots at 100m " QUOTE

Wow thanks, I didnt know that. Sarcasm aside, the ac10 takes up more space, tonnage and heat. So like I said, for SOME mechs or certain builds, it is a good combo if you want to use different or heavier weapons in other slots when you are restricted from using heavier weapons in your ballistics slot due to tonnage/heat or cant mount an ac20/ac10, and ONLY if your a close/medium range brawler.

Edited by Alwrath, 18 July 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Alwrath, on 18 July 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

QUOTE " Hey guess what. An AC/10 would kill that Cat in about 7 shots at 100m " QUOTE

Wow thanks, I didnt know that. Sarcasm aside, the ac10 takes up more space, tonnage and heat. So like I said, for SOME mechs or certain builds, it is a good combo if you want to use different or heavier weapons in other slots when you are restricted from using heavier weapons in your ballistics slot due to tonnage/heat or cant mount an ac20/ac10, and ONLY if your a close/medium range brawler.

And an AC/5 would kill that Cat faster than an LBX-10 in a live fire situation. Never mind a UAC/5.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

QUOTE " And an AC/5 would kill that Cat faster than an LBX-10 in a live fire situation. Never mind a UAC/5. " QUOTE

False. Every 5 seconds your dealing 20 damage with lb10x, with 2 shots. 6 seconds for 20 damage from an ac5, and thats if you hit with 4 shots. AC5 is not a brawling weapon, it is a mid range/long range/sniper weapon. You can twist while you brawl with an lbx10, soaking dmg, and its easier to hit with it at close range than an ac5.

UAC5? Well... now were talking about my favorite weapon in the game... but...

UAC5 you have to consantly aim and fire a constant stream of bullets to get max dps out of it... so once again you cant brawl with it cause you cant manuever and twist while using it, so it does not complement a brawler build because you will just get cored.

The LB10X is a mid/short range brawling weapon and it must be used as such. If it does not compliment your build and you can fit an ac20, just dont bother with it.

Edited by Alwrath, 18 July 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[Sug]

Alwrath, on 18 July 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

QUOTE " Hey guess what. An AC/10 would kill that Cat in about 7 shots at 100m " QUOTE

Alwrath, on 18 July 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

QUOTE " [color=#959595]And an AC/5 would kill that Cat faster than an LBX-10 in a live fire situation. Never mind a UAC/5. " QUOTE[/color]

Wtf with your quoting.

Alwrath, on 18 July 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

So like I said, for SOME mechs or certain builds, it is a good combo if you want to use different or heavier weapons in other slots when you are restricted from using heavier weapons in your ballistics slot due to tonnage/heat or cant mount an ac20/ac10, and ONLY if your a close/medium range brawler.

No.

[Gaan Cathal]

Alwrath, on 18 July 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

False. Every 5 seconds your dealing 20 damage with lb10x, with 2 shots. 6 seconds for 20 damage from an ac5, and thats if you hit with 4 shots. AC5 is not a brawling weapon, it is a mid range/long range/sniper weapon. You can twist while you brawl with an lbx10, soaking dmg, and its easier to hit with it at close range than an ac5.

Those two sets of 20 damage aren't equal though. The LBX-10 sprays all over the enemy mech like a teenager who's girl's letting him *** on her for the first time. With the AC/5 you can punch through a compartment much faster. Is the AC/5 actually good for this? No, but it's better than the LBX-10.

Alwrath, on 18 July 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

UAC5? Well... now were talking about my favorite weapon in the game... but...

UAC5 you have to consantly aim and fire a constant stream of bullets to get max dps out of it... so once again you cant brawl with it cause you cant manuever and twist while using it, so it does not complement a brawler build because you will just get cored.

The LBX-10 puts out 10 damage every 2.5s, spread (again). The UAC/5 puts out 10 damage every 1.1s, pinpoint. For less weight and barely any more heat. Yup, you're right. The LBX-10 is clearly superior.

Alwrath, on 18 July 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

The LB10X is a mid/short range brawling weapon and it must be used as such. If it does not compliment your build and you can fit an ac20, just dont bother with it.

It would be a mid/short range brawling weapon if the pellets did something like 1.2-1.5 damage, giving it a reason to exist compared with pinpoint ACs. If you're going to clone a weapon and spread the damage you need to inflate the damage or it becomes worthless.

[Fire and Salt]

Step 1) Make the lbx do double damage to internals.

Step 3) Profit.

[Shufflemuffin5]

An LBX can be used very effectively in some builds. I current have my K2 set like this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1715914ed0a76b9 .

Like others have said, you have to brawl with it but with 2.5 sec CD you can alpha (coupled with my 4 meds) then twist away to spread dmg then turn and alpha again. That's 80 dmg (yes some is spread) in 3 seconds, which is more than the OMG AC40 JAGER!!! ... Have ran about 20 matches or so with this build and cant recall doing less than 400dmg (that includes matches with multiple dc's/mouth breathers on my team) and topping out with 4 matches of ~1100.

So while I agree that an AC10 is better in probably 90% of all builds, don't just say LOL LBX everytime you see one because it can be very effective if used properly. Its very much a niche weapon.

[Oppresor]

Sug, on 17 July 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Pellet Spread

Why does everyone think the spread is crappy? It's supposed to spread out.
The pellets aren't all supposed to hit. The point of the cluster rounds it to make it easier to get a hit, against a damaged opponent, and hope that your cluster of hits gets you some crits.

If the spread were any tighter it would be much harder to hit a moving target.

It's interesting, the main train of thought throughout this thread has been to get in really close with the LBX and hit the enemy Mech square on. I actually gain great satisfaction from doing exactly this, it's the sound of the thing when it fires and seeing those multiple impacts on the target. Now that they have sorted out the bump mapping, you can actually see the damage on the target, it's great! However, as you have rightly pointed out the LBX10 is really an overgrown Shotgun and therefore it is intended to be used at a moderate range for it's spread effect.

Ironically, this is the reason that I initially turned to the LBX for. In the early day's I used to be plagued by Jenner's; it reached a point that if I had more than one Jenner locked on to me, I would give up and except the inevitable. Then I found the LBX10 Scattershot and realised it's potential for catching the circling Jenner's in its spread; I was stunned to discover that this actually works! I'm not saying its the answer, but it's certainly better than doing nothing 'which is exactly what would happen if I was packing an AC10'.

As I said some time back, after discussing the Jenner issue in the forums several MechWarrior's suggested that I supplement the LBX with an AC2; the results were and still are encouraging; it's mainly down to the high rate of fire.

I saw your table above and was stunned to see that there is an LBX15 Scattershot, any ideas when we are likely to get this?

Wintersdark, on 17 July 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

Seriously, people, there is no situation whatsoever where the LB-X is better than an AC10. None.
As soon as ranges spread out, the LB-X becomes utterly useless. Even at 270m it's completely garbage.

Not exactly true; read the comments above and consider firing the LBX10 Scattershot into the centre point of several light that are chasing your Assault. The idea is to do some damage to all of them rather than a lot to one. There's also the morale boost from hearing the thing go off; it's a bit like hearing a Harley engine, you know it's the real thing and there's no substitute.

[Wintersdark]

Oppresor, on 18 July 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Not exactly true; read the comments above and consider firing the LBX10 Scattershot into the centre point of several light that are chasing your Assault. The idea is to do some damage to all of them rather than a lot to one. There's also the morale boost from hearing the thing go off; it's a bit like hearing a Harley engine, you know it's the real thing and there's no substitute.

Far better is learning to aim, and just hitting them with real weapons.

See, if you do some damage to all of them, you're doing 1-3 points damage to each. That's so low it's literally inconsequential. It'll take so long to incapacitate lights that way they'll carve you apart anyways.

Against lights, if you have bad aim, use Streaks, or SRM6's. An SRM6 gives you the same spread love that the LBX gives you, except it only weighs 3 tons and is throwing 12 damage instead of 10. Sure, it's capped at 270m, but if you're looking for a shotgun effect, it's much, much better.

Personally, when I was new and couldn't reliably hit lights with ballistics, I was a huge fan of lasers. The beam duration and hitscan nature means hitting them is as easy as putting your crosshairs on them.

Don't get me wrong, I think the LB-X - leaving actual performance and game impact aside - is the single most incredibly awesome gun in the game. It looks badass, it sounds awesome, the smoke and flames are wild. It's FUN. I don't ever dissuade people from using an LB-X just because it's fun.

But don't kid yourself, it's the worst ballistic option, even worse than machine guns now they've been buffed a few times - despite the fact that they're still pretty bad too - at least they are small, light, and generate no heat.

A real problem in this discussion is that people keep calling the LB-X a "Shotgun" with all the FPS baggage that goes with that term: High damage, short range, more dangerous in close quarters than comparable "Rifles". The LB-X isn't like that. Appearances aside, it's not like a shotgun in a FPS, because it's bad in every circumstance where it's not so close that all the pellets hit the same location... In which case, it's *almost* as good as a regular AC/10.

[General Taskeen]

Oppresor, on 18 July 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Not exactly true; read the comments above and consider firing the LBX10 Scattershot into the centre point of several light that are chasing your Assault. The idea is to do some damage to all of them rather than a lot to one.

Why? I use AC/10's on a Jager and just shoot the legs off Lights, and then kill them. Because if you can aim, you're better off with something that maims and destroys a Mech out right. If it suits your play style, then that's good, but its just very effective for others that prefer pin-point when they have aiming down to an art.

Wintersdark, on 18 July 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

A real problem in this discussion is that people keep calling the LB-X a "Shotgun" with all the FPS baggage that goes with that term: High damage, short range, more dangerous in close quarters than comparable "Rifles". The LB-X isn't like t

This is especially true. Real-life shotguns actually do have range, except for random "custom" shells like the dragon shell or shells full of flechette for close range. Even in BF3, you can get people at range with shotguns.

But going to "canon" an LB-X caliber gun is actually an "extended range" Autocannon. It shoots further with two types of ammuntion, the cluster or a slug, where both have the same range, but the cluster just spread out the damage at the enhanced range.

Logical LB-X gun type balance in other Mech Warrior games knew that if they were to keep an LB-X gun with a "cluster" type round, it still had to have a range advantage, and since there are clusters, they knew to make it do more damage as well. In MW3 it shoots pellets, but in a stream of pellets, in MW:LL it shoots the # of pellets like MWO in a conical spread, but more concentrated to take advantage of the range, and also does way more damage to account for the spread.

Edited by General Taskeen, 18 July 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Man what is up with people putting words in my mouth in this thread?

QUOTE The LBX-10 puts out 10 damage every 2.5s, spread (again). The UAC/5 puts out 10 damage every 1.1s, pinpoint. For less weight and barely any more heat. Yup, you're right. The LBX-10 is clearly superior. QUOTE

I never said it was superior jackass. I said it is usefull in a close range brawling build. huck. Take the time to read my damn posts and stop trying to make it all black and white me vs you. Your trolling in this thread is getting old fast.

If you are brawling take the lb10x, not the uac5. If your playing fire support, by all means take an uac5, as I agree it is better dps than an lb10x!

QUOTE It would be a mid/short range brawling weapon if the pellets did something like 1.2-1.5 damage, giving it a reason to exist compared with pinpoint ACs. If you're going to clone a weapon and spread the damage you to inflate the damage or it becomes worthless. QUOTE

Its only worthless to you because you " think " the damage should be higher due to the spread of the bullets. Oh and it is not a direct clone to the ac10, which I pointed out before, but I guess you missed it. IT IS LESS TONS AND HEAT THAN AN AC10.

Stripping off armor in brawls with your srm's is what this thing is designed to do, and it does it very well. Its also handy vs lights as others have mentioned. Im sorry you feel the lb10x is sub par, we get it. Those of us who have alot of experience using it and know how to use it will keep on using it and do well in brawls.

Edited by Alwrath, 18 July 2013 - 02:25 PM.

[Sug]

Oppresor, on 18 July 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

I saw your table above and was stunned to see that there is an LBX15 Scattershot, any ideas when we are likely to get this?

Sorry to get you excited but I made that weapon up just to show how increasing pellet damage to 1.5 would effect the LBX10.

This is an LBX20 but it is not available in the Inner Sphere until 3058. Along with the LBX2 and LBX5.

[Sug]

Gaan Cathal, on 18 July 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

The LBX-10 puts out 10 damage every 2.5s,

In theory : /

Go to your Stats under your profile. Weapon stats. Look at your LBX10 column and divide your damage by your hits.

For me with 87 LBX hits and 83 AC10 hits mine works out to the LBX averaging 6 damage per shot and my AC10 is at 9.

Wintersdark, on 18 July 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I think the LB-X - leaving actual performance and game impact aside - is the single most incredibly awesome gun in the game. It looks badass, it sounds awesome, the smoke and flames are wild. \

I love it too but man it's bad.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

For a laugh I loaded up my Ilya Muromets with 3xLBX10s instead of the 3xUAC5s I usually run. The rate of fire is good, as is the shake you can get on the enemy 'Mech on chain fire. However - in raw damage done and kills - it's simply not a patch on other weapons of similar weight at the moment.

Quite easy to get kill assists - but also to score friendly fire. Tricky to blow off components. It's a late game weapon - meaning you have to hold back for a long while and hope your team can create some holes in enemy armour for you to exploit.

As a threesome, the UAC5 is superior by miles. However, as a singleton, I found the UAC5 too unreliable. I liked running my Hunchback with 5xMLs and an LBX10. Although I have a sneaking suspicion that's close to heresy.

I'm doing 7.1 damage per hit (5.8 damage per firing) at the moment. Accuracy of 82%. Interestingly, that's just a touch better than my stats with an AC10 (5.66 damage per firing). Perhaps it suits my happy blend of poor eyesight, bad timing and in-your-face brawling.

Edited by Dalziel Hasek Davion, 18 July 2013 - 03:38 PM.

[Erata]

The LBX is a comedy weapon. Don't use it. It's expensive, it's heavy. It has low DPS. It spreads its damage, which accounts for its low DPS.

It's not a serious weapon for the weight you pay.