27 replies to this topic

[KKRonkka]

That's my feedback: it still sucks major ***. Thanks to "ELO" matchmaking I have seen more than enough capraces where one side has 2-3 lights when another has none. Have fun with that, l2p etc.

[Drakari]

Perhaps your side should have brought some fast mediums who can run back to base and stop the capping? I mean, I don't understand why people would aim for a fast cap-win; ending the game in two minutes means nobody on either team is likely to get kills and the bonuses for wins and caps are pretty tiny and only XP.

That said, I don't think they should remove it. Base capping is necessary in order to prevent a single light from JJing to some unreachable part of the map and shutting down in order to annoy everyone by making the match last forever, it can provide some nice underdog wins where the base got whittled down all game and the last surviving member manages to just push that last sliver out for the win, and sending some lights to their base in order to split their forces between offence and defence (at the expense of also splitting your own forces) is a viable and entertaining tactic.

With all that in mind, I don't really care that much about having Light lances rush the base at the beginning; it's annoying, but a single medium can get back in time to sit on the zone and hopefully at least stall long enough for some fire support to arrive and start taking them out. That's 2 of your team fighting 4 of theirs, meanwhile your frontline still has the upper hand. I'm sorry if luck didn't go your way and you ended up in a drop with no meds or lights against a basecap rush lance, but the mechanic isn't the issue.

What DOES bug me a lot, is that right now splitting your team at all is a pretty bad strategy. This leads to lots of games where each side has 8 assaults that move as a single group, but each team picks a completely different route and reach the other side without ever seeing each other. This leaves capping as the only viable strategy because if the other team caps then assaults wouldn't get there in time to do anything and there's a whole team there so you'd need to get YOUR whole team there within 15 seconds (the amount of time a cap takes with 8 mechs on it) in order to stand up against the enemy.

[The Black Knight]

There just needs to be a battle mode where there is NO capping. A true deathmatch mode. Seems like 75% of the assault mode games that end in capping people on both sides, even the winning team, get mad at the capturer. Now that conquest is in place, the assault mode should have the capture winning condition removed. If you are in a light mech and want to cap then play conquest. simple.

[Nebelfeuer]

If you are in an assault mech and want to win assault mode then stay close enough to defend your base, simple.
Seriously, is it that hard to take 5 secounds to check your teams composition at the start of the game and instead of talking a looooong evasive route towards the enemy base that is guaranteed to result in the two teams not meeting each other after a 5 minute walk or simply blindly stumbling towards the usual fighting ground while your team consists of assaults only, to come up with a plan a little more sophisticated?

Assault mode is a capture the base game (be it by stealing the base or by anihilating the oposition) and not a team deathmatch as much as you would like to see it that way. If you forget about the base capture part or ignore it then it is you that is being stupid not the one that did keep it in mind and used that mechanic in his favour.

If you are in an assault mech and want to win assault mode then stay close enough to defend your base, simple.
Seriously, is it that hard to take 5 secounds to check your teams composition at the start of the game and instead of talking a looooong evasive route towards the enemy base that is guaranteed to result in the two teams not meeting each other after a 5 minute walk or simply blindly stumbling towards the usual fighting ground while your team consists of assaults only, to come up with a plan a little more sophisticated?

Assault mode is a capture the base game (be it by stealing the base or by anihilating the oposition) and not a team deathmatch as much as you would like to see it that way. If you forget about the base capture part or ignore it then it is you that is being stupid not the one that did keep it in mind and used that mechanic in his favour.

If you are in an assault mech and want to win assault mode then stay close enough to defend your base, simple.
Seriously, is it that hard to take 5 secounds to check your teams composition at the start of the game and instead of talking a looooong evasive route towards the enemy base that is guaranteed to result in the two teams not meeting each other after a 5 minute walk or simply blindly stumbling towards the usual fighting ground while your team consists of assaults only, to come up with a plan a little more sophisticated?

Assault mode is a capture the base game (be it by stealing the base or by anihilating the oposition) and not a team deathmatch as much as you would like to see it that way. If you forget about the base capture part or ignore it then it is you that is being stupid not the one that did keep it in mind and used that mechanic in his favour.

[KKRonkka]

Capping must be the most miserable game mode ever for mechwarrior... I guess I should be happy not to see capture the flag or similar kind of "nothing original to see here" game modes. Capping is only because they need reason for existance of light mechs? Heck, with this hit detection light mechs are harder to destroy than assaults. IF hit detection would work it would be more bearable, but when Spider takes hit from 4 LL and AC20 without any damage it's annoying.

Quote

Assault mode is a capture the base game

Ooh, how clever! And conquest mode is a capture the bases game, did you know that?

Quote

stumbling towards the usual fighting ground while your team consists of assaults only, to come up with a plan a little more sophisticated?

Thing is the second you even notice enemies have numerous advantage in light mechs when they already are CAPPING YOUR BASE. It's normal to see one ECM mech with two other running next to border and instacapping before you can prevent it. You can't stay at base 5 mins just waiting to see if enemy light mechs come. Especially highlighted in Tourmaline, Alpine peaks and canyon networks maps. It's not L2P, it's just very bad luck. Match that is over in minutes is not "L2P" lesson. It's just ******* boring.

Edited by KKRonkka, 20 July 2013 - 05:57 AM.

[James Montana]

Capping is not fun at all. The whole mechanic is outdated and a very poor fit for such a game.

[Nebelfeuer]

KKRonkka, on 20 July 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Thing is the second you even notice enemies have numerous advantage in light mechs when they already are CAPPING YOUR BASE. It's normal to see one ECM mech with two other running next to border and instacapping before you can prevent it. You can't stay at base 5 mins just waiting to see if enemy light mechs come. Especially highlighted in Tourmaline, Alpine peaks and canyon networks maps. It's not L2P, it's just very bad luck. Match that is over in minutes is not "L2P" lesson. It's just ******* boring.

So you know that your team is slowmoving and your opponent could have faster mechs then you but you are stupid enough to take that risk and ignore these facts and blame the players smart enough to make use of the gamemechanic all players know about? It is absolutely unproblematic to form a battleline close enought to your base until you have enough intel about the enemy team to form a better plan. If you decide not to do that it is you behaving stupid and it is you that is to blame if your team llooses to a fast cap - simple as that.
Besides If you do not like to loose that way why do you decide to run a slow moving mech since it´s reationcapability to such threats is obvieously limited?
Another point would be that tourmaline desert and alpine peaks offer actually a great field of view from lookouts relatively close to your base. True it takes a little bit of selfcontrol not to walk, sorry "storm" towards and engage that first red triangle you get sight of and instead wait a little to get a better impression of the enemys team but given the fact that you like to pilot slow mechs waiting a little should not be a major concern for you should it?

Oh and it was allready said above you would not like to have pure team deathmatches since it would be easy for a fast light to make that game last till the timer runs out by simply hiding or outrunning you..

[Gremlich Johns]

Drakari, on 19 July 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

That said, I don't think they should remove it. Base capping is necessary in order to prevent a single light from JJing to some unreachable part of the map and shutting down in order to annoy everyone by making the match last forever,

15 minutes is not that long, imagine if the game was set for 30-45 minutes. THEN you could say forever, especially if the rest of the opposing team got killed before 7 minutes was even up. Irrespective, I loathe "Capture the Flag" as well and wish there was TDM. And going back as the sole responding fast medium can really suck when there are three mechs there, none of which are lights.

[Fuerchtegott]

Drakari, on 19 July 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

What DOES bug me a lot, is that right now splitting your team at all is a pretty bad strategy. This leads to lots of games where each side has 8 assaults that move as a single group, but each team picks a completely different route and reach the other side without ever seeing each other. This leaves capping as the only viable strategy because if the other team caps then assaults wouldn't get there in time to do anything and there's a whole team there so you'd need to get YOUR whole team there within 15 seconds (the amount of time a cap takes with 8 mechs on it) in order to stand up against the enemy.

And huge maps like Alpine and Network combined with the movementchanges doesn't make things better at all.
As much as I like the genrerall idea, the execution is as bad as it could be.

There is an interesting article on PennyArcade were PGI describes their approach towards mapdesign.
One of the first important things the design is based around is the movementspeed of the different mechs.

Change the speed of the mechs and don't change the maps means just that PGI crapped on their own design decissions.

But maybe they are just a indiedevelopers and this is some sort of kickstarter ...


Great game for two dudes in Daddys garage.
Not so great when 30-40 "professionals" are responsible ....


Flaming PGI got me so good, I forget to wrote something on the cap topic. :-)
Cap is important, especially in a game were a light could shutdown and hide, but that does not mean, we should have the opportunity for so easy caps as we have it now.
Why not just make a base uncappable before at least 4 (or 2 or whatever) mechs are taken out.
Or implement a a factor for the cappingspeed speed based on enemy teammembers left.

Maybe it's a thinking mans shooter, a thinking developers shooter? At the moment it's not in my humble opinion.

Edited by Fuerchtegott, 21 July 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Caboose30]

Drakari, on 19 July 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Perhaps your side should have brought some fast mediums who can run back to base and stop the capping? I mean, I don't understand why people would aim for a fast cap-win; ending the game in two minutes means nobody on either team is likely to get kills and the bonuses for wins and caps are pretty tiny and only XP.

That said, I don't think they should remove it. Base capping is necessary in order to prevent a single light from JJing to some unreachable part of the map and shutting down in order to annoy everyone by making the match last forever, it can provide some nice underdog wins where the base got whittled down all game and the last surviving member manages to just push that last sliver out for the win, and sending some lights to their base in order to split their forces between offence and defence (at the expense of also splitting your own forces) is a viable and entertaining tactic.

With all that in mind, I don't really care that much about having Light lances rush the base at the beginning; it's annoying, but a single medium can get back in time to sit on the zone and hopefully at least stall long enough for some fire support to arrive and start taking them out. That's 2 of your team fighting 4 of theirs, meanwhile your frontline still has the upper hand. I'm sorry if luck didn't go your way and you ended up in a drop with no meds or lights against a basecap rush lance, but the mechanic isn't the issue.

What DOES bug me a lot, is that right now splitting your team at all is a pretty bad strategy. This leads to lots of games where each side has 8 assaults that move as a single group, but each team picks a completely different route and reach the other side without ever seeing each other. This leaves capping as the only viable strategy because if the other team caps then assaults wouldn't get there in time to do anything and there's a whole team there so you'd need to get YOUR whole team there within 15 seconds (the amount of time a cap takes with 8 mechs on it) in order to stand up against the enemy.

You can't choose for your side to bring anything, you're stuck with whatever ELO gives you.

[Mystere]

the black knight, on 19 July 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

There just needs to be a battle mode where there is NO capping. A true deathmatch mode. Seems like 75% of the assault mode games that end in capping people on both sides, even the winning team, get mad at the capturer. Now that conquest is in place, the assault mode should have the capture winning condition removed. If you are in a light mech and want to cap then play conquest. simple.

Do you realize that a pure death match mode just means looking for the last spider powered down in some undisclosed location?

And by the way, I cap for the tears, the vast flowing rivers of male nerd rage tears that capping produces. This thread just shows that it is still working marvelously.

[Charles Fornton]

I think the problem is that even if you do not wish to play a cap game then you have to. I hate capping. In fact I loathe it. However, I can understand why other mech players would like it. The simple solution is to provide me and the rest of the cap haters with a deathmatch. Or make capping less final. Maybe if a team caps then the other team gets a blank mini-map as their comms station has been taken.

[KKRonkka]

There should be something else than capping. If it must require a base there should be something else to do than stand in 40mx40m area and winning - best case scenario is that defenders are few meters from the zone and you magically lose. It suck, it sucks.

If developers would have creativity they wouldnt have copied WoT so much.

[Mystere]

Charles Fornton, on 21 July 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

I think the problem is that even if you do not wish to play a cap game then you have to. I hate capping. In fact I loathe it. However, I can understand why other mech players would like it. The simple solution is to provide me and the rest of the cap haters with a deathmatch. Or make capping less final. Maybe if a team caps then the other team gets a blank mini-map as their comms station has been taken.

As stated several times before:

Pure Death Match = Looking for the last player who powered down in an undisclosed location

[Dr B00t]

Mystere, on 22 July 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

As stated several times before:

Pure Death Match = Looking for the last player who powered down in an undisclosed location

i think the point is that it shows how limited the dev's imaginations are...the game modes are totally uninspired

its also funny that you think ruining other players fun is somehow amusing...go play league of legends if you wanna be a troll

[Mystere]

Dr B00t, on 22 July 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

its also funny that you think ruining other players fun is somehow amusing...go play league of legends if you wanna be a troll

Capping is a valid and perfectly acceptable tactic as per the game's rules. If people don't like losing to a cap, then have a plan to deal with it. It's much more worthwhile than running to the forums to QQ about it. That does nothing but feed the likes of me.

I have played solo 100% all this time and mounting a base defense does not seem to be a problem most of the time.

(What? Say that again? PUG are able to mount base defenses? It can't be! )

Edited by Mystere, 22 July 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[TheBaptist]

How can i plan anything random teams? There are matches where it will create an entire team of heavies and assaults, you have no idea what the other team is, it could be 8 ravens coming to cap your base, or 8 atlas that will never make it to your base in 15 minutes, without some intel on what the other team is made of no good strategies can be made.

Stop trying to imply that your average drop can have some strategy in the team composition before you hit the ground, the current match maker makes that absolutely impossible for people not dropping in 8 man teams, if you are dropping only in 8 mans then you have no reason to be in this conversation because it doesn't affect you.


If there wasn't a 3 minute start up to each match it wouldn't suck as bad when a light capped you out at 2 minutes, but as it is you spend more time searching, looking at the score board, and powering up your mech than you do in match which is really annoying, they should combine those scenes, have the score board up while im powering up and everyone is dropping in so we don't have super long lead ins to super short matches.


Seriously PGI, hire a single quality guy! The quality of the game will improve immensely if you let him grab a newspaper and smack developers making stupid decisions with it!

[MercilessTRADER]

They need base defensives, turrets and what not, commander places them on the map before game starts. Different locations on every map, every game, and even different defensives as clans need to buy them. Modules can also help, remote camera, tank, turret radar etc...... Also don't forget, clans and 12 on 12 will change the current dynamic, with more teamwork and communication.. base ****** would be harder.. A new battle mode outside the world map, or even in it, would be also sweet, as mentioned earlier in post.

Edited by MercilessTRADER, 23 July 2013 - 05:22 AM.

[Mystere]

TheBaptist, on 22 July 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

How can i plan anything random teams? There are matches where it will create an entire team of heavies and assaults, you have no idea what the other team is, it could be 8 ravens coming to cap your base, or 8 atlas that will never make it to your base in 15 minutes, without some intel on what the other team is made of no good strategies can be made.

Stop trying to imply that your average drop can have some strategy in the team composition before you hit the ground, the current match maker makes that absolutely impossible for people not dropping in 8 man teams, if you are dropping only in 8 mans then you have no reason to be in this conversation because it doesn't affect you.


If there wasn't a 3 minute start up to each match it wouldn't suck as bad when a light capped you out at 2 minutes, but as it is you spend more time searching, looking at the score board, and powering up your mech than you do in match which is really annoying, they should combine those scenes, have the score board up while im powering up and everyone is dropping in so we don't have super long lead ins to super short matches.


Seriously PGI, hire a single quality guy! The quality of the game will improve immensely if you let him grab a newspaper and smack developers making stupid decisions with it!

I don't know the quality of the PUGs you have been in lately, but the ones I have been playing in seem to be much more capable and willing to work together compared to several months ago. I have seen people take company and lance command with the rest of the team following orders. I have seen teams form kill zones near their base, blasting enemy scouts that arrive to cap. I've seen scouting and intel gathering.

It doesn't happen all the time. But, it's very nice to see that such things can and do take place in PUGs and that they are happening much more often than they used to.

Edited by Mystere, 23 July 2013 - 07:55 AM.

[Josef Koba]

Mystere, on 23 July 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

I don't know the quality of the PUGs you have been in lately, but the ones I have been playing in seem to be much more capable and willing to work together compared to several months ago. I have seen people take company and lance command with the rest of the team following orders. I have seen teams form kill zones near their base, blasting enemy scouts that arrive to cap. I've seen scouting and intel gathering.

I've actually found them to be much worse lately. My comrade and I are scoring 50-90 match points per game while the rest of our company is in the single digits and teens if they score at all. Last night I saw one Spider with a PPC shoot at enemies 1300+ meters away over and over and in the end he had 0 damage. He didn't attempt a cap. The rest of the team scored sub-20. Over the past few days the quality of PUGs has, in my experience (which is obviously limited), decreased dramatically. I mean DRAMATICALLY.