36 replies to this topic

[Rando Slim]

Hello again, the last thread I made really got me going with great advice. A few of these things I saw touched on in other threads, but I didn't want to hijack someone else's topic.

1: I have grown to really like piloting a Jenner. I love the speed and maneuvering, I now really get how to build one correctly also thanks to all the help I got. However, variety is the spice of life, I have three mech bays that need filled (bought 2) and it just seems like all the other lights are gimped (I refuse to use the 3L, though maybe the Jenner D isn't any less cheap idk). So I dunno, what mech should I get? I don't think i'd fare too well in something really heavy because now I'm very used to 130 kph or higher speeds, but Cicadas can't jump, and Commandos can't either, and Spiders are soo weak......are Blackjacks any good? I'm at 4mil c-bills and am about to start playing when I post this, so maybe by tonight I'll have enough to start a new mech.

2: How do you more advanced pilots get good at legging other lights? In general I could really use some tips for light vs. light fighting, as I'm not really very good at it. Last night I had a really good game statistically but lost the match for my team because I just couldn't kill the Spider on the other team fast enough to move on to the next cap point (I did kill him but it was too late by then) and I was so busy backstabbing bigger mechs to rack up damage totals and kills earlier in the match I forgot to play my role, I realized then that I do that a lot. But backstabbing slow targets and running away doesn't take much skill, but if fighting lights is what lights are good for, and what is expected, I must get better at it. But the whole Jenners having no arms thing really makes that hard sometimes, and streaks take soo long to lock on to a light, I honestly had better luck splattering twin SRM4s at things.

3: How do I find out what my ELO rank is or what tier I'm in? I feel like sometimes I'm doing way better than I should be (I had a game of 2 kills 5 or 6 assists and 620 damage) and then next match its that I get ***** by two lights and a stray ppc shot and am dead before I even do 40 damage. Am I boucing back and forth between two tiers or something? I've gotten my KDR up a lot the last few days, still bad overall because of how I started, but at least with my Jenner-d it was up over 2 for a while.

4: Is there any strategies for what light mechs should do on the map Tourmaline? I HATE this map with a passion, its huge, hot, and cover that is either really far apart where you've got to run away down long firing lanes, nonexistent, or in useless places. Its specifically challenging as a Jenner with no useful modules and no ECM, how do you other light pilots handle that map? TS would really help me stay coordinated but I don't know if I'm good enough to join a group.

5: i've noticed through spectating that some mechs can tilt up or down to fire at things above or below them better than I can.....how does that happen? I noticed a stalker firing down a 60-70 degree incline on Forest Colony that killed me and I was just like......wtf? I can't do that.

6: As a Jenner, how do you scout effectively? I don't want to compromise my build and put BAP on it honestly and I spent my GXP on a capture accelerator when i should have just got the increased sensor range. I guess I could sacrifice AMS, but I really like my setup of 4mlas, 3 jj, and 2 SRM4 with two tons of ammo. Basically I'm just not a good scout, and if thats half of what lights are supposed to do, it kind of prompted me to make this thread and wonder about what life is like in a different mech.

Sorry for all the questions. And yes I did read the Dear New Jenner pilots thread over in the guides section. I also read another thread about scouting using the search function but felt like it was mostly for Spiders.

[Redshift2k5]

I can't say anything about light mechs (being a Heavy pilot myself) bu I can answer some.

you can't see your elo. It's a private matchmaking weight, seeing it yourself would be irrelevant. The elo range is very broad, so you might be in a match with more newer players, or you may be in a match with more experienced players. Different times off day will lead to th matchmaking finding matches that are more -or less- accurate to the expected Elo rating. If it can't find an even match in enough time, it starts to get less and less picky abotu who ends up in the same match. You also have a different elo for each weight class of mech.

Mechs have a limited amount of torso inclination/declination, but their arms tend to have much more. If you turn off the ARM LOCK feature in the options menu, you will be able to aim your arms much further up or down because they will no longer be limited to the same angle as the torso.

[Tor Gungnir]

SSRMs are really good for being a "Hunter-Killer" against other Lights. Just gotta learn not to lose that lock once you get it, which can be real tricky.

EDIT;
Just be sure to either be close enough to counter their ECM, or have ECM of your own and counter it with that

Edited by Tor Gungnir, 16 July 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[xengk]

1. Blackjack's top speed is around 90+ with speed tweak, unless you take the BJ-1X variant that have a higher engine rating and can go 115+. But the 1X cannot install Jump Jets.

2. During my time in cicada, I learn to fear the pulse lasers. 2 well placed Large Pulse Laser on my leg will strip my fully armour leg down to internals. So I start packing pulse laser too on some of my builds which get harass by light often, like my PPC awesome 8Q and LRM awesome 8R.
Circle dueling a light is never a good option for me, as my best accuracy is only around 85% (I heard good pilots scores above 90% and best pilot are at least 95% with any direct weapon). My method is to deal enough damage to scare them off and backstab them when they decide to pick on a teammate.

3. ELO is hidden from the player.
ELO is used to match as even a team of players as possible. The most ideal outcome is when all 16 players have same or close ELO, match like this are always long and interesting.
I suspect most of the time you get mixed ELO player in a match, this is because when the match maker cannot find 16 players with same/close ELO it start plucking lower or higher ELO player to fill in the gap. It is during these match you will experience what you have described.

4. The closest thing I pilot to a light are my cicadas.
I spend the time before both team making contact to run ahead and scout the enemy team; like where they are heading(let teammate setup ambush/firing line) and what mechs they are compose of(alot of light or mostly assault), possible PPC and LRM threat(any stalker, highlander, awesome that look at me and didn't immediately start shooting I mark them as brawler), etc and rely it back to the team.
Once the fighting have started, I drop behind the main fighting and help focus fire on whichever target my teammates are firing on. Also look for the aforementioned PPC and LRM threat and rush/backstab them when possible.

5. Each mech will have different torso and arm tilt. Generally speaking, anything with upper arm actuator with have good up/down tilt, lower arm actuator will give good lef/right tilt. Mech that have both, like Commando and Awesome, can actually torso twist to look away while still firing at you.
You can go to this site and check their stats.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

6. Im not a fulltime scout so I don't have any advice for you here, other than what I have mention in 4.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

1. I'm a huge fan of my Jenners ... the next logical step (in my opinion) is the Trebuchet ... 2 can equip Jump Jets, one can go really fast (for a 50 ton mech), and you can do some pretty good ML/SRM, ML/LRM, and ML/SSRM builds with most of them, but to do it right, you need to spend about 11 million C-Bills per mech (XL engines). Another option is to try something different.

2. Legging moving SDRs is especially hard ... the best case (after one that's stopped) is to be right behind them ... other than that, it's (literally) hit-or-miss. In a light, you should try to avoid "even" fights ... or any fight where the numbers are against you. The trick (for me anyway) is know when to break away from a losing battle to cap and win rather than die fighting ... particularly difficult while brawling in Conquest, since you may not know how many mechs are left on each team.

3. You can't see your Elo ... in PUGs, there's a pretty good chance you're going to run into experienced and new, good and bad, players on both teams. We all feel your pain ... until the player base gets much bigger, this is they way it's going to be. I didn't start playing until Feb (I know, founder since Aug - real life and other issues kept me from playing) ... I didn't break 1:1 KDR or WLR until about May (but I have been experimenting, a lot, and my stats are still trending up).

4. On TD, if I'm the only fast mech ... in Conquest, I'll try to cap one of the outlying points (eps or kap), then either back-cap the enemy's start or join up with some team mates... in Assault, I'll scout ahead, spot for missiles until I get shot at, then fall back to my team. Once the brawl starts, support the heavies. Communications are probably more important on TD and AP than any other maps.

5. Your arms aren't locked, are they? Assuming that's not it, I dunno ... optical illusion? space magic?

6. Scouting is not just passing target locks ... it's communication. Yes, I know typing in a moving light is a bad idea ... stopping in a light is a bad idea ... but in PUGs, the only way to scout properly is either to get close enough to lock or to type. I always try to let my team know where I'm headed in advance, that way, if I run into trouble, they might notice or know where to look.

[Ewigan]

I actually won't answer to all of your questions right now, maybe i will find the time later.

But one thing is sure: If you got 2 Jenners... get a 3rd!
Master them, then (maybe) sell 1 or 2.
Your playstyle will improve a great big deal with the mech skills that you can unlock via XP.

[Aym]

Scrotacus 42, on 16 July 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

6: As a Jenner, how do you scout effectively? I don't want to compromise my build and put BAP on it honestly and I spent my GXP on a capture accelerator when i should have just got the increased sensor range. I guess I could sacrifice AMS, but I really like my setup of 4mlas, 3 jj, and 2 SRM4 with two tons of ammo. Basically I'm just not a good scout, and if thats half of what lights are supposed to do, it kind of prompted me to make this thread and wonder about what life is like in a different mech.

I love that Jenner build as well but it's not the "scout" Jenner build, it's the "Striker" jenner build. That build is very capably of putting 30+ damage into a single component in one second of a run-by, that's some serious hurt, you can do that 3-4 times with a Cool-shot module while circling and be out before any reinforcements come in, couple that with another striker or a scout, or even a very fast medium/heavy and you have a great striking team for getting cap points and scouting. If however you want to scout on your own, downgrade to streaks and get BAP. Realize that one build probably can't do everything, otherwise what would be the point of all the customization?

[Unnatural Growth]

I will pass on the first 3, as I am not an advanced pilot, I also only play assault mode,

4. The desert map. First, try and stay out of the wide open areas altogether. Skirt around the rock piles and hills as much as possible. Some of those low mounds and craters are tall enough to hide most of your outline since you're so low to the ground. Run. Fast. And if you get "caught" and have to run away, try not to run directly away. Run to a side. A straight away shot is the easiest way to get killed in a light. If you are caught running straight away, use your JJ's to hop-turn quickly from left to right. This does 2 things, it makes you zig zag very quickly, AND it kicks up dust from your JJ's behind you as you go. Both of those together make it harder to hit you.

Heat shouldn't be an issue unless you're trying to alpha those 4 ML's all the time. I would set up a 4 alpha for emergency use, and set up 2 and 2 on separate keys for normal use. I normally run 5 ML's on my -f and if I'm firing 3 at a time, I don't overheat at all with 10 or 11 DHS's. You don't really need more HS's than that. I'd set up those SRM/SSRM's both on one key, and unless you're on the ML's constantly at same time as missiles, the launchers shouldn't overheat you.

Play with it in testing grounds. Get just in close enough behind one (270 meters) for SRM's, then try a 4 ML alpha, then SRM launch, then run away. You really shouldn't be hanging around for more than that for a volley anyway, as by this time they are turning around to try and kill you, and you should be running away to cover so you can set up another run. If you get stuck in a brawl, then just 2 ML's at a time with an occasional SRM strike when they line up well.

5. I think this got covered, but your Jenner doesn't have "real" arms, so your arm travel is more limited. I'm assuming you DON'T have armlock on? If you find yourself in an elevation miss match, then get out of there. Or use your JJ's to change your position relative to your target.

6. Wow, Scouting... in PUGS...

Always a crap shoot. You just never know if your PUG team will be able or willing to use any info you give them. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. The saying it's like herding cats applies I think. That being said, I PUG exclusively and I feel your frustration daily. Sometimes I get so angry I could kick a kitten through an electric fan.

(Kidding of course, but I've always liked that saying, and "herding cats" made me think of it again)

All you can do is try. This is where you need BAP. It is a mistake not to run it if you're really trying to be a scout. Not all lights are scouts, and not all light pilots even try to scout. Some just try and base cap and harass, which can be effective, but it is not scouting. You need to be able to pick up enemy targets, lock when you can for LRM targeting, but DON'T sit out somewhere exposed just to target lock in hopes someone on your PUG team will hit them with missiles. This is why I DON'T carry TAG. Not in a PUG team. TAG makes you vulnerable as you have to sit too close (750 meters) and relatively still for the entire missile flight time, which is too long for your own health, especially in a light with no ECM.

BAP is not as good as TAG, but it's passive, which means you don't have to sit there and target it to make it work. Also it will counter ECM on another mech. It will also detect shutdown mechs at close range, which can be useful if a certain player with a tire company for a name is on the opposing team. I would also recommend seismic sensor module, very handy to have.

Once the 2 sides are fully engaged, your job as a scout is over. Then it is time to be a harasser/base defender/base capper when necessary. You will likely be the only light on your team, so if you hear your base is being capped, you have to break off and go defend. That's not always going to go well, so if you round the corner and see more than you can deal with, break off quickly to type that you need help in team chat, then go back to engage.

If the main battle starts to go badly, you may need to break off from harassing to go cap enemy base. Like if it's 0-4, or 0-5, you better haul Jenner to the enemy base to cap.

[Unnatural Growth]

Also, get the elite level speed unlock. It boosts the Jenner to 152 Kph with the XL300 engine. Every little bit of speed helps you stay alive longer.

[Hammerhai]

It is pointless to unlock arms on a Jenner as its' arm travel is so limited. If you drive with armlock, the override function (Left Shift) is your friend in need. Mechs where it works well would be the Commando and the Spider, I think.

You want to override arm lock when in a circle of death with someone else, btw. I found it most useful to do so on my Dragon. It is easier to get snapshots off against lights that way.

Yeah, but the Jenner is kind of an odd one out due to the practically fixed arms it has anyway.

[Hammerhai]

It is pointless to unlock arms on a Jenner as its' arm travel is so limited. If you drive with armlock, the override function (Left Shift) is your friend in need. Mechs where it works well would be the Commando and the Spider, I think.

You want to override arm lock when in a circle of death with someone else, btw. I found it most useful to do so on my Dragon. It is easier to get snapshots off against lights that way.

Yeah, but the Jenner is kind of an odd one out due to the practically fixed arms it has anyway.

[Hammerhai]

Scouting is very simple <g>. No really. Spot the Heavy/ Assault. He is the slowest, and that is where the brawling group is. Exceptions:
Centurion. The fast one (AH?)
Dragons
Quickdraws.
All these are off cappers, or off scouts. Double check if you see one of these.
Spotting a light you have to make double certain it is a wolfpack, or if he is a loner. If he is alone, look somewhere else for the main group. If it is a wolfpack, you will die on your own. Try and get off a warning message, if you are cornered

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

List of fastest 'Mech chassis (Medium-Assault) not really taking their tonnage into account - just based on available engine size (heavier chassis will go slow than lighter ones for an equivalent engine):

Medium
Cicadas (all) 137.7kph
Centurion (CN9-D) 126.4kph
Trebuchet (all, but the TBT-3C in particular) 126.4kph

Heavy
Dragon (all) 97.2kph
Quickdraw (all) 97.2kph
Firebrand Jagermech 84.7kph
Cataphract (all except the 4x) - The CTF can be fast for a 70t 'Mech if you squeeze a 340 engine into it. 78.7kph
Assault
Awesome (9M and Pretty Baby) 78kph and 81kph
Victors (all, particularly the Dragon Slayer) 78kph and 81kph


If you like Jump Jets, then I would go for the Trebuchet (starting with the 3C) or the Quickdraw. If not - then consider the Cicada or the Dragon.

Edited by Dalziel Hasek Davion, 17 July 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[Hammerhai]

Oh, and there are many groups who will welcome you and train you up. Look in Outreach. There are only a few groups who want top tier only. Eg Kaos. (Sorry guys, no disrespect.) From what you have said of your stats, you are already a better pilot than I am, so you should not feel you will not contribute.

I am in BWC myself, and if you want to know more I will gladly introduce you to the guys. But by all means, make your own choice. Plenty of good groups around.

[DEMAX51]

First off, regardless of your skill level or experience, feel free to join our TS server - ts.ghostwarriorsbrigade.com - and we'll be happy to run with you and give you any tips you need about the game.

Now, from a pilot who has played ~2000 matches in Jenners...

1. If you haven't already, get the other Jenners and get them all through the Basic tier so that you can unlock speed tweak (which is MASSIVELY important to a Jenner) on the ones you want to keep. Personally, I like all 3 variants as each serves a slightly different role.

2. For legging lights, you might want to try turning down your mouse sensitivity just a hair, which should allow you to keep a single component under your crosshairs for the duration of your laser. You could also try using small pulse lasers instead of mediums, as the shorter beam duration makes keeping it on target a bit easier, and the faster rate of fire is pretty nice too. Also, keep in mind not all Jenners are built to be light-killers. What you've got there with 4xML and 2xSRM4 is more of a striker build meant to rip apart heavy's and assault's rear torsos.

3. As has been stated, you cannot find out your ELO score, but the matchmaker tries to form two teams with about-equal average ELOs, it doesn't match up individual players - so in one game you might have some skilled assaults with some noob lights, and in another game it might be the exact opposite, and in a third game you may just have a whole bunch of equally skilled pilots.

4. Personally, tourmaline is my least favorite map, but here are a few tips: Changes in elevation can provide pretty good cover, and Tourmaline is very hilly. The Jenner's small size can make even small hills into adequate cover to break line of sight. There's also plenty of opportunity for flanking on such a large map, where a Jenner's speed really shines.

5. Turn your Arm Lock off in the options. Seriously, learning to use your arms effectively is a huge advantage and will only make you a better pilot in the long-run. If you need to have your torso and arm mounted weapons converge on exactly the same spot you can still use arm-lock at will with left shift.

6. Quite honestly, the Jenner isn't an ideal scout mech as it lacks ECM, that said you can kind of scout in any of them. Just get out there, see where the enemy is, and then get back to your team quickly so you don't get singled out. And if you can, run with a teammate who does have ECM. As I mentioned before, all three Jenner variants can be pretty good, you just have to use them in the right way. The -D with streaks & BAP is a pretty good light killer (at least, it was before the streak nerf, not sure how effective it is now). The -D with SRMs is a great striker designed to deal heavy damage to the rear torsos of bigger mechs. The -F is an excellent skirmisher (and if your aim is good enough, can be an effective light-killer as well). The -K is a great spotter/companion for LRM boat teammates - its extra module slot shines through in this role at the cost of reduced damage dealing potential.

One final tip: You only need 2 jump jets - that extra half a ton can be put to better use as extra armor, in an engine upgrade, or to augment the weight needed to use AMS.

Edited by DEMAX51, 17 July 2013 - 09:15 AM.

[DEMAX51]

Hammerhai, on 17 July 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

It is pointless to unlock arms on a Jenner as its' arm travel is so limited. If you drive with armlock, the override function (Left Shift) is your friend in need. Mechs where it works well would be the Commando and the Spider, I think.

You want to override arm lock when in a circle of death with someone else, btw. I found it most useful to do so on my Dragon. It is easier to get snapshots off against lights that way.

Yeah, but the Jenner is kind of an odd one out due to the practically fixed arms it has anyway.

Incorrect. Even on a Jenner, turning arm-lock off is the way to go. It gives you a MUCH better ability to aim at things above and below you. While this may not seem like a huge difference, it really is.

Arm lock was specifically designed to make the game easier to understand for new players, but once you're comfortable with the way the game plays, it's time to take the training wheels off and unlock your arms.

[Hammerhai]

Interesting. Did not know about the up-down thing. Sideways it is awful. Thx.

[DEMAX51]

Hammerhai, on 17 July 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Interesting. Did not know about the up-down thing. Sideways it is awful. Thx.

No problem! I really do suggest you try it, it makes hitting a jumpjetting spider much easier, and allows you to sit up on top of high hills and fire down on 'mechs well below you. You can even aim your arms so low that you can hit 'Mechs that are so far below you they may appear to be "hidden" behind your minimap!

This can be a pretty huge advantage. For instance...

Say you're one vs. one against a Gauss Cat - his torso-mounted gauss rifles have limited up/down aiming, giving you the ability to position yourself on top of a very high hill and fire upon him without him being able to fire on you at all!



You are right about the lack of side-to-side movement, though. In order to be capable of lateral movement, arms have to have a "lower arm actuator" and those only appear on certain 'Mechs. Turning arm-lock off when you use one of those 'Mechs is even more of a boon.

Edited by DEMAX51, 17 July 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[FrDrake]

Scrotacus 42, on 16 July 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Hello again, the last thread I made really got me going with great advice. A few of these things I saw t

....

1.As another poster mentioned, Trebs are really fun (they can also go 100kph), the J and M can both mount JJ and run very similar builds to a Jenner ( small/med lasers and missiles). If you want to go bigger, Quickdraws are the next step up from that that run in the same tune.

2. For legging, if the other light is circling you, you have to aim just ahead of their legs and I aim at the knee joints, this is the hardest way to leg someone and takes the longest. If they are running directly at you or away from you their legs are way more susceptible to your beam damage. If your goal is to leg then break out of the circle and they will usually chase directly to you, at that point use your JJ to flip around and put all your beams on the leg you want to hit, they usually won't veer off before taking the full damage to one or the other leg. Uneven terrain makes legging way harder too, if you can find somewhere flat to fight them it's better.

3. Elo hidden yada yada yada.

4. I rush theta, then I go eps, as people usually naturally gravitate toward kappa more for some reason. Then I take the opposing base, then I rejoin the fight or if the enemy has a dedicated capper I will retake points. TD ends with 1 mech left and max resources on the winning team tons of times, just like alpine. Sorry but if you're a light and want the win, play the cap game on TD and Alpine, you don't get any glory until all 7 other guys are dead though watching you in your hiding spot, then it's all "GJ light guy, thanks for saving this match".

5. Turn off arm lock as has been mentioned, you get like an extra 40 degrees up and down which really helps on slopes.

6. The only real scouting you do in a pug game is "looks like most of them G5". That's about all that's expected out of you (because honestly ppl don't expect anything from a light other than they run off and die in a pug match). If you start playing organized then finding a good spot to hide and target guys will be more important. But really a jenner even though it's a light is a striker, not a spy. So while you are running from cap point to cap point just yell where the bulk of the enemy is and call your scouting job done.

Edited by FrDrake, 17 July 2013 - 01:13 PM.

[BoPop]

yep, "finish" your jenner, it will be groovy. you think you like that jenner now, wait till 2xbasics. then you can sell off the ones you don't like (they're cheap if later down the road you really want one again you'll have the cbills)

I like ALL the mediums but I've not done trebuchets yet and i'm not really interested in them. however I've got some buddies who are NASTY in them, but then again, they are good in any mech.

the cicada 3m is a nice little ecm laser boat, and the hunchback4p is a fun laser boat too. it's just that hunch.. so easy to take out, has bullseye painted all over it. centurions are awesome, and when you get them totally greased up you may do wonders.

I don't suggest heavies or assaults to new players and many would argue this with me.