27 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

The Victor is the only assault 'Mech I will ever buy (with the exception of my Overlord Phoenix package and its Battlemasters, which I received as a gift and thus technically did not buy so HAH). Why is the Victor the only assault 'Mech I will ever buy?

Because 85kph w/jump jets. THAT'S WHY.

Do I need an enormous, hugely expensive and vulnerable 385XL to do it? Yes I do. Does that matter.

NOT A DAMN BIT.

I can get nearly five hundred armor going at speeds stock mediums of this time period would envy, and I can do it while still retaining enough focused firepower to ensure that when I get to where I'm going, the other guy is going to feel it. You doubt it?

Meet the Beaminatrix.

This particular VTR-DS is Piranha's own fault. I had a good thing going with my initial DS loadout, slinging a gauss rifle over three large lasers on a 350XL powerplant and doing its aggressive fire support (keyword: aggressive. Aggressive fire support is infinitely better than what your Stalker does!) thing...but then suddenly heatscale and I'm not allowed to fire my lasers together anymore. Sad face. So, since I'm getting a dose of Piranha's secondhand hate, I need something new to do with my good ol' Dragon Slayer. The answer, it turned out, was to Go Faster and Shoot Harder. I may have lost my triple larges, but I got my SRMs back. Who needs ballistics? Not this guy!

Hmm...you need ballistics, you say?

Angry Ape's got you covered, then.

Sure, it's damn near a stock VTR-9B armament, but you know what? When stock gets it right, why change it? Just add more than double the SRM tubes and slot that glorious Limited Edition gold-plated 385XL signed by Henry Mother-Loving Ford himself into that towering monument to delicious excess, flip the Endo and DHS switches, and take that AC-20 out for a night on the town. You want a fifty-damage alpha strike with no heatscale shenanigans, assault 'Mech-level armor, medium 'Mech-level engine speed and jump jets?

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU WANT!

You think XL engines don't belong in assault 'Mechs? I bet you think your face doesn't belong in my crosshairs, either! But I can get your face in my crosshairs, because your Stalker goes sixty-three klicks downhill with a push and thinks it's such hot stuff with its PPCs and junk, but then BAM. VICTOR, ALL UP IN YO GRIZZILL. I'm sorry, was that your side torso? I totally didn't mean to cave it in with concentrated short-range fire from a 'Mech that hits more than twenty klicks an hour better top speed than you, can totally jump over that cliff you're hiding behind like a crazed, claymore-wielding Scottish barbarian with a bellyful of whiskey and a pair of basketball shoes, and has all the Durallex Manplate armor it needs to facetank all the desperation fire a sniping platform has to throw!

Victors – putting the Assault back in Assault 'Mech. Get yours today - you know you want to.

Edited by 1453 R, 21 July 2013 - 05:10 AM.

[NRP]

The Victor is certainly a good mech. Once you get used to it, I think you'll really enjoy it.

[C A R N A G E]

Good pilots in victors can be dangerous but average joe pilots will be cannon fodder to my stalker.:-)

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

This is the same concept as the superfast awesomes. I ran a fast awesome in closed beta before the engine limits were implemented. It's a flawed concept and it won't get you past low elo pugstomps.

Your firepower doesn't matter, and neither does your speed when you have to close to deal damage with your SRMs as one of the biggest targets on the battlefield. This would be good in an 8man of 8 fast Victors, but if you're by yourself and playing against someone who isn't functionally ********, people are going to travel in blobs. You'll get focused down since you're as big as a highlander and almost as big as an atlas. Your side torsos are gonna go down a LOT faster than your CT (assuming you're not CTed out by PPC stalkers). Sure, you might have some really good games where you're not focused down and you're allowed to pick off stragglers, but that's a result of your enemy being idiotic, not your build being strong.

At the end of the day nothing can outperform a team of stalkers landing massive alphas and ducking back down to avoid return fire. By the time the lategame rolls around, they will be completely fresh with no damage taken and you'll be weathered from trying to brawl.

And why the PPC on a clearly close-ranged build? It seems like an anomaly that serves to only take up space.

Edited by OuttaAmmo NoWai, 21 July 2013 - 08:13 AM.

[1453 R]

Then how do brawling Atlases survive as a thing to this day?

I get that there are folks who believe - honestly believe to the bottom of their hearts - that XL engines aren't worth it. That no amount of extra speed or increased firepower is worth the loss of durability, especially in a game currently so dominated with high-tonnage, high-damage alphamonsters To whit: "It doesn't matter how fast or heavily armed you are if you blow up the minute somebody looks at you crossways." These folks can't really understand the striker mentality, think Dragons and Victors both are just the chumpest of chump 'Mechs, and yeah, they generally play things like Stalkers or Atlases. Or Cataphracts, if they have a little bit of Captain in 'em.

I, on the other hand, believe in a different creed. To whit: "It doesn't matter how sturdy you are if you're A.) too slow to make it to the fight, or B.) too undergunned to contribute to it once you get there." With very few exceptions, anything with a standard engine qualifies for A, B, or even sometimes both. The epitome of it is honestly Angry Ape up there. The 385XL weighs only half a ton less than the default 320STD, I'm not really saving any weight whatsoever in the engine to add to weaponry. The second SRM launcher I get over stock configuration, and the ton of ammo to go with it, comes entirely out of Endo Steel, and the huge mass of extra armor comes from the switch to DHS. The engine is pretty much an equal trade-in.

But that 320STD, even with Tweak, gets me going at only 71.3kph tops. Downhill with a push, as the Stalker goes, and that's only a seven-klick lead over the very snipers I wish to hunt. That's no advantage at all. Not when I can get myself fourteen extra klicks with an XL, as well as all the benefits that come with it. Extra jump distance for clearing obstacles from the faster start, quicker and more responsive turning from the bigger engine, and just the flat-out positioning advantage of being able to go a good third again faster than anything else in my weight class. I don't have a single BattleMech with a standard engine in it (excluding my odd-duck Hunchback from really early on in this game, who currently doesn't have any engine because of a MechLab Misclick Adventure >_>), and frankly I tend to avoid those chassis which 'require' standard engines as being ill-suited to my preferred style of play.

Yeah, I get plenty of games where I end up without support and die a horrific death in things like my Dragons, my Trebs, and now my up-and-coming Victors. And eventually my Shadow Hawks. But ye know what? I refuse to live in fear of the snipehards, nor will I play their game and set up a PPC Stalker of my own. I'll play the way I like to play regardless of whether or not it's a good idea and will simply strive to make it as good an idea as I can, and I will simply have to take my victories where I can and bear my losses in good will. Because PPC snipehards only get to ruin my day if I let them.

EDIT: I'm not actually nearly as satisfied with Beaminatrix as I'd like, no >_>. It's the best idea I can come up with for DS given its hardpoints, but damnit I liked my Three Little Laserpiggies and the Big Bad Ferromagnetic Wolf. Stupid heatscale, hatin' on totally kosher configurations for totally kosher 'Mechs...

Edited by 1453 R, 21 July 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[Ens]

1453 R, on 21 July 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

Angry Ape's got you covered, then.

Why DHS in right torso instead of engine?

[1453 R]

Because I've got three tons of AC/20 ammo in there that I really, REALLY don't want to explode on me. The chances are fairly low as it is, true, but they're even lower if I stuff a heat sink in there to soak up some crits, too. The engine-mounted DHS slots are great for when you've got more tons than crits, but engine DHS over the tenth don't add any extra cooling as I recall, and I'd rather lose a heat sink than watch my autocannon ammo cook off. After all, I may be only a minute or so from death with my ST armor stripped, but if I can get off another couple of shots off before then, why not go for it, eh?

Edited by 1453 R, 21 July 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

1453 R, on 21 July 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

Limited Edition gold-plated 385XL signed by Henry Mother-Loving Ford himself

Fun fact, Ford doesn't make fusion engines in battletech but both GM (inventors of the first self sustaining fusion reactor in universe) and Nissan do.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 21 July 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[Bagheera]

No way in hell anyone is putting a Ford engine in my Victor.

Let the engine block flame wares begin!

j/k

[theta123]

I am at the moment running 3 victors. an B model with dual AC/2, AC10, 2 ML and 2 Streaks. It has jumpjets and a speed of 66 KM/H. this is low but it still is so much fun and i am having a great-freaking-time with it.

My S model is more of a brawler with an AC20, Dual LL and 3 streaks (purely for self defense). Simular speed but no jumpjets.
Still having a great time.


The K model has jumpjets, XL340 with a speed of 75KM/H. Well armoured. And one AC10(3T), 3 Large lazers and an SRM 10(1T). with 14 DHS keeping everything decently cool. Gotta love it. Altough i am thinking of installing maybe an LB-10X and dropping one LL.

Victor is a great assault mech. I really love it.

[Leafia Barrett]

1453 R, on 21 July 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Because I've got three tons of AC/20 ammo in there that I really, REALLY don't want to explode on me.

...Why are you putting ammo in the STs to begin with? That just seems like a hilariously bad idea, especially with an XL engine.
Beaminatrix Mk.II
Angry Ape Mk.II
And if you wanted to add on a little more speed for your DS:
Beaminatrix Mk.III Beta
Loses a little bit of firepower (why are you using a PPC in a close-range mech anyhow??) and a lot of armor in the left arm (which is carrying a whopping nothing, so it's only a meatshield anyways), but gains some speed (though the amount is small enough that I wonder if it's worth it).

[arghmace]

1453 R, on 21 July 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Then how do brawling Atlases survive as a thing to this day?

More armor, no XL, more weapons. My Atlases can dish out almost twice the dps of your Victors.

Ens, on 21 July 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

Why DHS in right torso instead of engine?

To serve as crit padding for that ammo. That's the right way to do it. No reason to put it inside the engine.

[Training Instructor]

It's because you see too many Atlas pilots who think they're snipers. The RS can sniper a bit, but the Atlas really shines in the dirty work. An Atlas pilot who is afraid to get dirty with the brawl should go find another mech to pilot.

[1453 R]

Leafia: because honestly I lose leg armor almost as often as I lose ST armor on the damn thing, and STs are easier to pad out. More folks are shooting at legs these days, and I have a theory/superstition when it comes to jump jets anyways. As for Beaminatrix, it was on a 385 because I have no intention of buying a second hilariously oversized engine I can cram in precisely and exactly two 'Mechs, only one of which I actually own. And as soon as they bump the heatscale cap for large lasers up to three, WHERE IT BELONGS, I'ma put Beaminatrix back to her Gaussflash build anyways.

Mace, T.I.: I don't see myself as a dedicated brawler so much as an obnoxiously huge striker. I am perfectly willing to fight other assault 'mechs face to face if it comes down to it - I have Opinions on the subject of assault jockeys who aren't willing to do that and refuse to be one of them - but Victors, to me, are more about maneuverability and positioning than they are straight face-blitzing. Mace has the right of it - an Atlas will always outperform a Victor if they're both on standard engines, but my Victor can gain a serious edge in mobility at the cost of sturdiness in that XL switch-out, and there ain't jack most Atlas jocks can really do about it.

Heh, Atlases aren't my preferred choice of target, anyways. Realistically they shouldn't be anybody's first choice of targets. That'd be Stalkers, who never seem to carry close defense anymore. or Hunchbacks. I never get tired of shooting Hunchbacks, and I'm pretty sure I never will, even if it counts as a guilty pleasure in a Victor.

[Hound of War]

Honesty I enjoy going after Fatlases in my slow (xl 345) Vic K... hit em long with guass/erppc and close with medL/srm, jump right over that poor slow thing (with 5 jj) and its like "whered he go? Whered who go...."

[Bishop Steiner]

arghmace, on 21 July 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

More armor, no XL, more weapons. My Atlases can dish out almost twice the dps of your Victors.

the day I see an Atlas dishing out 132 damage I will be duly impressed. D[er]PS is a useless scale to measuring as it favors MGs and other things over realistically useful weapons. Why sit out there trying to see how long you can hold a target all the while getting pounded to snot when you can be juking and torso twisting instead?

also, I can kick my alpha damage to 75 or so, but don't see the advantage since it comes at the expense of speed and heat endurance. I Still can dance around your Fatlas or Stalker or Highlander, but it doesn't do ballet anymore.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 July 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[Hound of War]

A bit of hard candy for the gung-ho Atlas jockies out there : its all just an illusion...let me explain:
By the time yall get that piece of walking mayhem into combat the enemy has been fighting a wee bit, so Mr. 100+Alphanator gets off a AC 20 round on a nearly cored mech and it goes down. Lots of back slapping and gj team but really all that Atty is, is a garbageman. Now we will hear " im a doing 500+ dammage a game"...well of course you are, cause your targets are in no shape to shoot back ( or are enemy Atlases who finaly made it to the party late...as usual)

[Angel of Annihilation]

arghmace, on 21 July 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

More armor, no XL, more weapons. My Atlases can dish out almost twice the dps of your Victors.

Except that a well build Victor can easily dish out the same DPS as a Atlas. Additionally while you do have the XL vulnerablity and less armor in a Victor, they usually run a minimum of 20+ Kph fast and have JJs for even more mobility. This is definately enough to offset the the vulnerabilities.

I am not going to say a Victor is better than a Altas but it is definately not worse. They just have hugely different playstyles and piloting skills are what will make or break either model in the end.

[arghmace]

Viktor Drake, on 22 July 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Except that a well build Victor can easily dish out the same DPS as a Atlas.

No doubt. I was only talking about the OP's builds. Especially the Beaminatrix is low in both alpha and dps.

[Nexus Omega]

Wow this thread turned into a hating on Atlas's thread.

As a long time Atlas Pilot I feel I should step up and defend it, so I will.

The Atlas is a great mech, yes it has no jump jets, but has more armour and can mount plenty of firepower, is very durable if you can torso twist (getting a little harder now days) and a draws fire away from mechs that A) can't take punishment or B : ) mount more weapons (Stalker comes to mind)

It is defiantly something to fear on the battle field, IF piloted well.

All that said, there seem to be less and less good Atlas pilots around now days, I seem to be able to outfight them in my Highlanders, and have murdered them with an Awesome 8Q (of all things!) both at close range,

I will likely be getting me a few victors soon, haven't quite got the C-bills for all 3 just yet, So we shall see how I feel about them.

Edited by Nexus Omega, 22 July 2013 - 06:57 PM.