14 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

http://ca.ign.com/ar...game-developers

In an interesting and thought-provoking editorial on his personal blog, Activision’s community manager Dan Amrich expressed concern about the treatment of game developers on the Internet by the very people who play and enjoy their games, specifically citing a series of recent examples targeting David Vonderhaar of Treyarch.

In a recent patch of Treyarch’s Call of Duty: Black Ops II, a series of tweaks were rolled-out that reduces the damage and speed of certain weapons. Due to the changes, which no doubt will alter the way some folks play the game, Vonderhaar was subject to ridicule and violent threats. The changes made some “people violently angry,” according to Amrich.


As Amrich explains, “One of [Vonderhaar]’s many responsibilities is to keep the game as balanced as possible,” yet when he does make these changes, he “often gets told he should die in a fire or kill himself or is a horrible person. If anyone thinks for a second that this is okay, it is not.”

“But if the loudest voices in the Call of Duty ‘community’ act like an angry mob instead, guess how the entire world views Call of Duty?” Amrich continued. “Now consider that these Internet Tough Guy rants and demands are not unique to COD, but exist everywhere, in many gaming communities. This is why the world often does not take gaming seriously; this is why gamers are assumed to be immature, whiny assh***s. Because the immature, whiny assh***s are louder.”

Amrich concludes with a plea for more thoughtfulness and calm, asking people to think about how they want to be treated. “If you enjoy your games,” he ends his blog post, “have a little respect for the people who make them – and stop threatening them with bodily harm every time they do their job.”

[Drazlim]

I agree with the OP.

[Corvus Antaka]

Jackson Jax Teller, on 26 July 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

I think the correct response here is respect is a two way street.
If thats the same article I read the other day, it lists literal death threats as telling someone to DIAF or "die in a fire" Which can be the internet equivalent of saying hello for some of the morons out there.
Not that sending actual literal death threats over a video game is varranted but they need to grow a thick skin if youre gonna be relating to ppl on the internet, especially gamers because games r seruz buznuz. Kids online nowadays tend tyo forget theyre talking to actual people and their words can have consequences. ID kinda like to see developers start pressing harassment/threatening bodily harm charges against the ppl that say things like that. Maybe if the ppl typing started to realize they may well get arrested or their parents get fined for what they say they may actually give a ****

It's not far off now. I'm amazed even at some of the trolls around here or the people with the idiotic PGI signatures - one is already a copy write violation they could be sued/banned for, the other is in this modern internet age very close to trolling/bullying.

I guess with games people still assume a layer of anonymity and really they should be more careful in how they act and behave, they push to far and are lucky PGI doesn't call to get them hauled off for some of the insane crap and outright misinformation and lies they spread.

In the past that thick skin - yeah, that's life too. But reality is nowadays it is simply no longer acceptable behavior online, and really only shows the true colours of the people that do it.

[Wired]

Jackson Jax Teller, on 27 July 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Well if the devs dont respect their players they become less deserving of our respect is kinda the two way street part I was referring to. But like I said, the actual threats of IRL violence are uncalled for.

Honestly though; I only see it getting worse and you just really have to look to the history of this game for proof of that. This game's community has degenerated in record time imo.

An on the topic od copyright violation; you just have to change something 75% to use it. Generally, unless youre making money (or the company is a {Richard Cameron}) the use of the image as a sig on a foprum, wont provoke a lawsuit.

Like mine for instance. The picture is changed into an Atlas and the font is freely available.

The devs have always had plenty of respect for us, hence when we demanded Sarah`s mech, they gave it. We have just never had respect for the devs. Everything in the closed beta was amicable until PGI wanted to, you know, test stuff. So they tweaked costs and made the XL engine expensive to repair and that resulted in people rioting and filling these forums with bile. And that attitude has persisted ever since.

Edited by Wired, 27 July 2013 - 10:11 PM.

[DLFReporter]

Most people can't even be bothered enough to write in proper english while demanding immediate fixes by the devs... it's really frustrating.

[Blacktemplar223]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 26 July 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

It's not far off now. I'm amazed even at some of the trolls around here or the people with the idiotic PGI signatures - one is already a copy write violation they could be sued/banned for, the other is in this modern internet age very close to trolling/bullying.

I guess with games people still assume a layer of anonymity and really they should be more careful in how they act and behave, they push to far and are lucky PGI doesn't call to get them hauled off for some of the insane crap and outright misinformation and lies they spread.

In the past that thick skin - yeah, that's life too. But reality is nowadays it is simply no longer acceptable behavior online, and really only shows the true colours of the people that do it.

I agree with you.

I never understood why perceived anonymity always provided the excuse for people to say horrible things and fly off the handle. The thing I've always tried to do is whatever medium I'm communicating through to treat it as if I'm talking to the person face to face. This means showing respect and talking without trying to invoke anger/rage. Given I fail at this time to time, but still.

Why people feel the need to go after Devs making the game they are playing is beyond me. In the case of people going after PGI, it could get to the point where they just pull the plug. This isn't a single player game, so if the devs get tired of it and leave then everyone loses access to the game. PGI has by far been the best group of developers from any F2P game I've played when it comes to communicating with the community. I hate to see it when people are abusing the dev's attempts to get feedback from the community.

[Lugh]

DLFReporter, on 01 August 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

Most people can't even be bothered enough to write in proper english while demanding immediate fixes by the devs... it's really frustrating.

You mean like adding an ... where a comma would do?

[Snowcrow]

I'm always amazed by how many terrible human beings there are on the internet.

[Wired]

http://www.escapistm...on/7831-Go-Fish

[lizardmech]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 26 July 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

It's not far off now. I'm amazed even at some of the trolls around here or the people with the idiotic PGI signatures - one is already a copy write violation they could be sued/banned for, the other is in this modern internet age very close to trolling/bullying.

I guess with games people still assume a layer of anonymity and really they should be more careful in how they act and behave, they push to far and are lucky PGI doesn't call to get them hauled off for some of the insane crap and outright misinformation and lies they spread.

In the past that thick skin - yeah, that's life too. But reality is nowadays it is simply no longer acceptable behavior online, and really only shows the true colours of the people that do it.

I think actual threats and harassment are a long way from general trolling on the forums. Receiving death threats can stress staff and unfairly impact their life even outside of work. Trolling and whinging on the forums is just an annoyance which can be ignored or deleted.

[Ridersofdoom]

Must be " be nice with novice developers like PGI"

[S3dition]

I wrote a few paragraphs in the "Internet Hate" thread, so I'll refrain from doing it twice. But I do find it terrible that car companies can, say, screw up a braking system that leads to deaths without people demanding that the engineers be killed. But when their favorite weapon goes from 10 dps to 9 dps... oh man. They'll kill the developer's families and wear their skin on midnight strolls over that injustice .

Anyway, off the soapbox.

[Jestun]

This works, as long as calm and constructive is actually worth posting.

If it's "We know best" then it's a different story, calm constructive feedback gets you nowhere anyway.

[Stalephreak]

I guess game devs don't live in the real world? I work with the public on a daily basis as a side effect of working in the service industry. People being downright posterior orifices is normal. I've had punches thrown at me, been cussed at, spit on... When it comes to these guys, they're bringing a lot of it on themselves through bad judgement. Really, they are. Overmoderation leads people to believe in cover up. (no, I'm not citing any action in particular, so shove it in your Code of Conduct) Complex solutions for simple problems that fly in the face of all logic and convention will cause ire from anybody. Backing down on your own published pillars and promises for design? Yup, that's akin to forcing somebody to pay triple for a well done steak when they ordered medium-rare. It's not that I don't want to be nice to them. I understand you get more flies with honey than vinegar, but lately we're getting SpecialHighIntensityTraining.

[slightest]

I do agree with OP that much of the hate directed at Devs is unnecessarily harsh and rude.

However, I must also say that it stems from a rage that has been building up over many patches due to the developers' management/mismanagement of the game - massive balancing changes which present "new" issues that the community has forewarned about, implementing things that "everyone" has said they do not want, while leaving core gameplay problems unresolved. To add to this, PGI continues to charge money while saying that MWO is still in open Beta, as well as selling Mechs and having regular sales. Hence, this results in the perception that the developers are money-grubbing scum who do not respect the players, and hardly care about what they think, as long as they continue to buy Mechs.

Not to mention that many people here have played TT, the Mechwarrior series and/or read the novels. You can imagine the expectations that they'll have of MWO and the resulting disappointment.

Whether or not what I said above about the developers are true is debatable. It certainly may be untrue. Unfortunately, the community perceives this to be real and respond accordingly - usually in anger and rage.

Personally? Well, two weeks ago i happened to drop in a game with 2 developers and a couple of players (including me) had a bit of conversation with them over the in-game chat. I must say that the attitude behind their responses to the concerns raised there were very disappointing.