9 replies to this topic

[Will9761]

I have always though about the concept of having firepower that could cause mechs to fall down based on the mech's tonnage. Basically saying, lighter chassis would be more likely to fall down as heavier chassis would lean forward trying to stand themselves up. Let's say you strike a Commando in the RT (which has 12 armor) with 1 PPC (causing 10 damage) or 6 volleys of LRM-15s .The mech would fall down as part of a damage bonus. This system was common in both the Tabletop games and the Computer games. In Tabletop game you have to check your piloting skills to see if your mech gets up, while in the MW4, it's based on you firepower. It's sensible when you take in the mech's size or the firepower they're carrying.

What do you think about the idea of firepower knockdowns?

Edited by Will9761, 30 July 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Davers]

No thank you. No stun-lock effects for me please. We already saw this when we had collisions in-game: teams based around knocking people down and keeping them down. This is one of those TT rules that would be REALLY BAD to implement.

[Prezimonto]

Jenner bowling was terrible. I don't think they could quite get away with it anymore now that HSR is in, and I do desperately want Knockdown back in.

I wouldn't mind seeing damage based knockdowns, as long as there were also recoil based chances to fall over.

[Big Giant Head]

We could have them until collisions come.

[Hotthedd]

Will9761, on 29 July 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

I have always though about the concept of having firepower that could cause mechs to fall down based on the mech's tonnage. Basically saying, lighter chassis would be more likely to fall down as heavier chassis would lean forward trying to stand themselves up. Let's say you strike a Commando in the RT (which has 12 armor) with 3 PPCs (causing 30 damage) or 6 volleys of LRM-15s .The mech would fall down as part of a damage bonus. This system was common in both the Tabletop games and the Computer games. In Tabletop game you have to check your piloting skills to see if your mech gets up, while in the MW4, it's based on you firepower. It's sensible when you take in the mech's size or the firepower they're carrying.



What do you think about the idea of firepower knockdowns?

You touch on the ACTUAL problem in your question: Hitting a mech (commando) in ONE location (RT) with multiple weapons (PPCs) with ONE shot is a game-breaking mechanic.
Not to mention, in your example the Commando would be dead anyway, so a knockdown would be moot.

[shadowsedge43]

I like the Idea of Knockdowns, and I think I have a solution that prevents abuse:

I have posted a suggestion for a balance-and-falling- game mechanic that includes knockdowns In this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...ce-and-falling/

Under these conditions, knockdowns are only possible if the enemy engages in "risky" behavior that reduces his balance, like heating up, firing weapons that have recoil, running, jumping, maneuvering hard , ...

[Tice Daurus]

I suggested this months ago, but based for TT rules. The rule states in TT that only direct fire weapons doing 20 points of damage to a single area would force the pilot to make a piloting roll or face knockdown. Since we can't follow TT rules by making a piloting roll, on this it should be based on skill with the mech itself.

For example, say you are a beginner on the mech with no BASIC skills and just starting out, and you take 20 points of damage to one spot. The chance to be knocked down - 16 percent.
If you finish all of the basic skils - that gets cut in half to 8 percent.
If you finish all of the elite skills - that gets cut in half again to 4 percent.
And if you have a mastery aka master level on the mech - that gets cut in half once more to 2 percent. Thus there is still a chance for a knockdown to a mastered mech, but it's very rare, 2 percent out of 100.

Now, if the person however takes say 40 points of damage to one area say in say a 2-3 second time frame, that chance is then DOUBLED.
No basic skills - 32 percent
All BASIC's done - 16 percent
ALL ELITE skills done - 8 percent
MASTER DONE - 4 percent

Now how does direct damage happen? From physical weapons. AC ballistic shots, Gauss cannons, and missiles that can provide impact damage, as well as a collision. The more impact damage in the same area, the greater the knockdown. So if you take a crapload of damage, you're going down and take falling damage in the process.

That's how the rules from tabletop should be applied here in the game. Now if you want to fudge some of my numbers to make it happen, I'm cool with that. But that's how it should be based. The more experience you have in a mech, the less chance of a falldown/knockdown you take, but the more DIRECT DAMAGE you take in a single blow/strike (i.e., 2-3 second window of damage) it can increase the chances of you going down.

This is the most fair and logical way I can describe how a knockdown should take place.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 30 July 2013 - 12:51 PM.

[Mackman]

Tice Daurus, on 30 July 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

I suggested this months ago, but based for TT rules. The rule states in TT that only direct fire weapons doing 20 points of damage to a single area would force the pilot to make a piloting roll or face knockdown. Since we can't follow TT rules by making a piloting roll, on this it should be based on skill with the mech itself.

For example, say you are a beginner on the mech with no BASIC skills and just starting out, and you take 20 points of damage to one spot. The chance to be knocked down - 16 percent.
If you finish all of the basic skils - that gets cut in half to 8 percent.
If you finish all of the elite skills - that gets cut in half again to 4 percent.
And if you have a mastery aka master level on the mech - that gets cut in half once more to 2 percent. Thus there is still a chance for a knockdown to a mastered mech, but it's very rare, 2 percent out of 100.

Now, if the person however takes say 40 points of damage to one area say in say a 2-3 second time frame, that chance is then DOUBLED.
No basic skills - 32 percent
All BASIC's done - 16 percent
ALL ELITE skills done - 8 percent
MASTER DONE - 4 percent

Now how does direct damage happen? From physical weapons. AC ballistic shots, Gauss cannons, and missiles that can provide impact damage, as well as a collision. The more impact damage in the same area, the greater the knockdown. So if you take a crapload of damage, you're going down and take falling damage in the process.

That's how the rules from tabletop should be applied here in the game. Now if you want to fudge some of my numbers to make it happen, I'm cool with that. But that's how it should be based. The more experience you have in a mech, the less chance of a falldown/knockdown you take, but the more DIRECT DAMAGE you take in a single blow/strike (i.e., 2-3 second window of damage) it can increase the chances of you going down.

This is the most fair and logical way I can describe how a knockdown should take place.

No chances, dude! Random percentage-based chance with consequences that severe are game-breaking.

Can you imagine a competitive match? Two teams, pretty evenly matched, all in mastered mechs, when... out of nowhere, the RNG gods just **** on one of the teams and have two of them get knocked down within a couple seconds of each other. They get mopped up, due to no fault of their own, and you have a match decided entirely by random chance.

Now, if instead it required you to hold keys to rebalance yourself (sort of a quick-time event or something), then that could work. Because then it would be your actual skill that decides whether you fall or not.

Edited by Mackman, 30 July 2013 - 01:01 PM.

[Will9761]

Hotthedd, on 30 July 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

You touch on the ACTUAL problem in your question: Hitting a mech (commando) in ONE location (RT) with multiple weapons (PPCs) with ONE shot is a game-breaking mechanic.
Not to mention, in your example the Commando would be dead anyway, so a knockdown would be moot.

Thank you for clearing that up, I was basically trying to say that because the Commando was lightly armored, it couldn't withstand enough firepower to stand on its feet.

Edited by Will9761, 30 July 2013 - 01:04 PM.

[orcrist86]

knockdown used to be an important aspect of the game in TT. Hit a guy with a bunch of lasers and then charge him and you might get a knockdown. In MWO I can see knockdown being viable under the following conditions:

Massive hits from missile or ballistic weapons, or being charged by a heavier mech.
Knockdown should come as a result of a pilot failing to correct his gyros with his neurohelmet. Someone suggested a QTE, and I think something along those lines applies.

I wouldn't want to see it implemented unless a solid skill based mechanic was implemented.