19 replies to this topic

[Training Instructor]

Don't "hang back" while your team is engaged. Don't wait for everyone else to get shot while you're behind a rock, patiently waiting for your teammates to damage enemy mechs so that you can run in at the end and get some free kills on severely damaged mechs with your fresh mech.

I say this not only because it's a cowardly tactic, but because it will inflate your matchmaking rating and soon you'll find yourself in a bracket where everyone on your team is waiting for other people to engage. At this point, you'll have to actually learn how to take chances and go around a corner first, except that the people on the other team will be much better shots, and you'll be punished for not understanding the maps as well as you would have if you had actually played aggressively as a new player, while your matchmaking score was low enough to be playing against opponents who weren't so good at coring you.

If you're a new player, don't charge the enemy, but also don't just hide behind rocks waiting for the other 7 players on your team to damage the enemy before they die. If your teammates are shooting people, you should be to.

[Booran]

Depends. I wouldn't let my Dragon loose until the enemy team is tied up in fighting my allies.

[Queen ChrysaIis]

in conclusion - just find 4ppl party, it will be so much fun

[JayKay17]

Booran, on 26 July 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

Depends. I wouldn't let my Dragon loose until the enemy team is tied up in fighting my allies.

In my Opinion, it's OK for the light, medium and lower end heavy (QKD, DRG) to wait to engage the enemy until the armor (heavy and assault) are engaged, BUT you have to stay near and move into comabt as soon, as the shots start flying. I'm pretty sure thats what Training Instructor meant, don't charge in alone and don't wait until combat is over.
MWO is a Teamplay, if you don't act as a team you will loose.

[B0oN]

I rather hang in the enemies back if I can manage it ^^

[Pando]

Training Instructor, on 26 July 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Don't "hang back" while your team is engaged. Don't wait for everyone else to get shot while you're behind a rock, patiently waiting for your teammates to damage enemy mechs so that you can run in at the end and get some free kills on severely damaged mechs with your fresh mech.

I say this not only because it's a cowardly tactic, but because it will inflate your matchmaking rating and soon you'll find yourself in a bracket where everyone on your team is waiting for other people to engage. At this point, you'll have to actually learn how to take chances and go around a corner first, except that the people on the other team will be much better shots, and you'll be punished for not understanding the maps as well as you would have if you had actually played aggressively as a new player, while your matchmaking score was low enough to be playing against opponents who weren't so good at coring you.

If you're a new player, don't charge the enemy, but also don't just hide behind rocks waiting for the other 7 players on your team to damage the enemy before they die. If your teammates are shooting people, you should be to.

[troll]

I like the players that use cover and strike when opportunity presents itself.

After all, its more money for me if they get the kill.

There is a bracket where people stand around behind cover waiting the entire match? I WANT TO FIGHT THIS BRACKET. All I find these days is PPC/Gauss meta builds. I want to play in your bracket where everyone stands around waiting for everyone else to kick the bucket.

The "Instructor" needs "Training" IMHO.

[/troll

Edited by Pando, 27 July 2013 - 03:35 AM.

[ecued]

the funny thing is that the money is not in the kill shot, its in all the other things that you do to bring it about, such as spotting, tagand narc, kill assists, component destruction, cap assists, ect. so if you want to hide, knock yourself out, more c-bills for the aggressive player in the long run.

Edited by ecued, 27 July 2013 - 04:40 AM.

[Elizander]

The game needs voice commands and better pings on the map (like DOTA 2) for the Lance/Company leaders to use.

[Ridersofdoom]

maybe we should write some codes of war so battles would be between knights.

[CmdrPoopyPants]

Training Instructor, on 26 July 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

I say this not only because it's a cowardly tactic, but because it will inflate your matchmaking rating and soon you'll find yourself in a bracket

While I agree with your general sentiment (hiding hurts your team thus -causing- losses), I should correct you on your understanding of the match maker.

The current match maker randomly stuffs people together to build a team. Now, there might be a little effort to match "team weight" in terms of mech weight classes, but I've been in matches where the enemy has 4 or 5 lights with 3 atlai, and our team had zero lights, 4 assaults, a few heavies and the rest mediums. We seriously outweighed the enemy, yet we got trashed because 3 of the 4 lights were ECM as well as most of the Atlas guys. This is especially distorting on things like Alpine Conquest where lights are the deciding factor against a heavy team.

What people get confused about is the ELO system. In the real world ELO is used to match people for competition (among other things). In MWO, it is nothing more than a PREDICTION ENGINE that PGI uses to "pretend it's doing something with match making". That is, your RANDOM team is "evaluated" based on the total ELO average of the team, then looked at against the other team. Then a PREDICTION is made as to who will win. The team is not "bracketed", not picked because of individual ELOs..

After the match the game says "did the team I thought would win, win?":

If yes, losing team (every member regardless of match score or contribution) all get a "decent bump" to their individual ELO scores. Winning team gets a small bump.

If no, the losing team ALL get a small REDUCTION in ELO and the "underdogs" all get a LARGE bump in individual ELO. Again, not one bit of it is doled out based on individual performance. The guy that sat idle the entire match gets the same boost/drop as the guy that led the charge and got 4 times the damage dealt as anyone else on the team, including the only 3 kills for the team. Next match that "sit and do nothing" guy enters, he has a HIGHER ELO than before, even though he's done -nothing- to get it.

People really need to understand that match making at present is RANDOM (as far as player skills/experience goes). Those of us with 4000+ matches are regularly matched in teams full of people in their first few days of play.

[Konril]

Training Instructor, on 26 July 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

I say this not only because it's a cowardly tactic, but because it will inflate your matchmaking rating and soon you'll find yourself in a bracket where everyone on your team is waiting for other people to engage.

Oh, so don't hang back behind rocks and use cover because you might win? Strange advice.

The ELO system behind the matchmaker assigns a hidden score to each player that is used to predict who will win a particular match and how likely it is. When the prediction is wrong, that is when the team wins a match they are supposed to lose or lose a match when they are supposed to win, the ELO score gets an update to make future predictions more accurate.

If you're doing something to consistently win, then your ELO is going to go up until you are facing other opponents who are consistently winning. So it will naturally get harder and harder to continue winning. Similarly, if you are doing something to constantly lose, your ELO is going to drop until you hit a newbie level. Dropping below the newbie level is actually very difficult because if you perform significantly weaker than an newbie, you'll run out of opponents that are actually weaker than yourself and therefore it's hard for the ELO system to drop you any further.

Therefore, if this "coward's" bracket exists at all, it's probably top-tier. So if you get there, you're doing something right instead of wrong.

[CmdrPoopyPants]

Konril, on 27 July 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

The ELO system behind the matchmaker assigns a hidden score to each player that is used to predict who will win a particular match and how likely it is. When the prediction is wrong, that is when the team wins a match they are supposed to lose or lose a match when they are supposed to win, the ELO score gets an update to make future predictions more accurate.

If you're doing something to consistently win, then your ELO is going to go up until you are facing other opponents who are consistently winning.

Stop and look at what you posted.. "prediction".. -nothing- about "setting up a match" involves PICKING players based on ELO, just PREDICTING who should win based on the random group assembled.

ELO, at this point, is -literally- nothing but code stroking some developer's ego since it does -nothing- to influence the actual forming of teams. You could completely remove ELO from the game, and at this point -nothing- would change about how teams are FORMED.

I read over all the posts on ELO when it was being put in the game. Not ONCE was "picking teams" -ever- discussed, just what happens -after- the team is put together. ELO is not used to keep teams close in skill, it's used to guess who will win or lose.

[Hexenhammer]

How how fast this thread became a gripe fest about ELO.

[Training Instructor]

Well, some of you got the point, and some of you have very little reading comprehension. No shame in that, it's a common problem amongst people in whatever country you come from. If you come from an English-speaking country, the problem is that your teacher didn't hit you in the head with a baseball bat.

Most of the guides for new players tell them to hide behind rocks and wait for their team to do something. It's terrible advice. Your best opportunity to learn the map is while you're new, not while you are in an upper MM bracket where your face gets fried if you show it.

It's a shame some of the posters in this thread have sub triple-digit IQs.

Edited by Training Instructor, 27 July 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[Thunder Lips Express]

Elizander, on 27 July 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

The game needs voice commands and better pings on the map (like DOTA 2) for the Lance/Company leaders to use.

dear god no! no way am i listening to pugs on comms.
but it would be a good feature to have for people who don't have vent or ts3

Training Instructor, on 27 July 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Well, some of you got the point, and some of you have very little reading comprehension. No shame in that, it's a common problem amongst people in whatever country you come from. If you come from an English-speaking country, the problem is that your teacher didn't hit you in the head with a baseball bat.

Most of the guides for new players tell them to hide behind rocks and wait for their team to do something. It's terrible advice. Your best opportunity to learn the map is while you're new, not while you are in an upper MM bracket where your face gets fried if you show it.

It's a shame some of the posters in this thread have sub triple-digit IQs.

now aren't you the pretentious one...
*gag*

[Training Instructor]

Pretentious is when I tell people the wrong advice. The current wrong advice is pretentious, because the owners are cowards who want everyone else to figure out where the enemy team is so they can flash their fresh mech and shoot ppcs.
\

[Roheryn]

Training Instructor, on 27 July 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Pretentious is when I tell people the wrong advice. The current wrong advice is pretentious, because the owners are cowards who want everyone else to figure out where the enemy team is so they can flash their fresh mech and shoot ppcs.
\

You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means.

- The Dread Pirate Roberts

[Bront]

Yeah, the everyone hide in back and let someone else take damage meta is annoying. Seriously, a coordinated push of multiple assaults spreads out the damage (on most teams) and can draw out your enemy. Meanwhile, popping out behind cover is a good way for many mechs to get killed by long range fire, particularly when only or or two at a time are doing it.

No, charging in blindly isn't great either, but it's frustrating when you make a calculated advance with your team only to find you're the only one who kept advancing, because it's easy to get caught out in the open that way.

This is also why lights and mediums are nice, they can flank and draw people out of cocver.

[GMAK]

Training Instructor, on 26 July 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Don't "hang back" while your team is engaged. Don't wait for everyone else to get shot while you're behind a rock, patiently waiting for your teammates to damage enemy mechs so that you can run in at the end and get some free kills on severely damaged mechs with your fresh mech.

I say this not only because it's a cowardly tactic, but because it will inflate your matchmaking rating and soon you'll find yourself in a bracket where everyone on your team is waiting for other people to engage. At this point, you'll have to actually learn how to take chances and go around a corner first, except that the people on the other team will be much better shots, and you'll be punished for not understanding the maps as well as you would have if you had actually played aggressively as a new player, while your matchmaking score was low enough to be playing against opponents who weren't so good at coring you.

If you're a new player, don't charge the enemy, but also don't just hide behind rocks waiting for the other 7 players on your team to damage the enemy before they die. If your teammates are shooting people, you should be to.

I have not noticed any players doing that. Most players appear to do good.

[IAN WAGNER]

While not hiding behind rocks (unless another mech has been kind enough to allow a target lock for me) I have been hanging back as both the current trail heavy and assault chassis are good '500 meters plus' platforms, and something as or more mobile than either of them will usually make short work of them.