248 replies to this topic

[Infidel 8654]

From reading through all the posts here one thing is for sure......the Devs are NOT doing it right and people are NOT happy. I played 5 rounds today and had enough. I just came off of about a 2 week break because of the horribad patch that was supposed to fix the PPC craze but ruined every other build in the game along with it. As of right now the game should be renamed Overheating MechWarrior Online. Instead of enjoying the heat of battle, I'm sitting there doing nothing waiting for heat to dissipate. Or, I'm running a build of mismatched weapons that are not very effective just to try and avoid heat. But, now we have 3 maps that create more heat and I'm right back where I started with sitting there not fighting but watching my heat level go down painstakingly slow.

[Jesus Box]

ZonbiBadger, on 02 August 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Play better. That is the solution.

Sadly that wasn't one people could do. Thus we have the heat nerf system.

[Lightfoot]

Do what I do. 3xPPCs, much better, you just hold out one PPC for a follow-up shot.

Look, the problem is the 2xRecharge. MWO should just drop it. They haven't bothered to support it by making the Mechs tougher. The reason the 2xArmor is too weak is that when big weapons take 6-8 seconds to recharge you can countdown your opponent's recharge and turn away as they fire so the damage hits your Mech's shoulder. At 2-4 second recharge there is no time to turn away and you just get cored. Pretty simple to understand if you ever played MechWarrior before MWO.

[SubRyan]

If you end up in a 1v1 at the very end of the match with someone loaded out with this, I find the best answer is to suicide by map

[Archon Adam Steiner]

2x PPC and 1x Gauss is simply the best pin-point Alpha that exists... period. It's heat-efficient, not too ammunition-intensive, and can be mounted on (theoretically) almost any mid-weight-or-higher battlemech.

I drop in a very high ELO bracket with my team and, while not universal, the absolute cutthroat 'win at all costs even if it's boring' teams will grab a bunch of Highlanders, slap on the topic-title build, and pop-tart like their life depends upon it. Dull, boring, lame, cheesy - call it whatever you wish, but it does happen. It's really a shame, too. There's nothing that can be done (at present) to prevent it, though some 'unofficial' tournaments and leagues have started restricting weapons types in their rules, which has brought a welcome change that leads to more diversity in encounters - pilot skill starts to matter a whole lot more when maneuvering and keeping weapons on target are required!

[Rippthrough]

Lightfoot, on 04 August 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Do what I do. 3xPPCs, much better, you just hold out one PPC for a follow-up shot.

I just alpha the lot, the heat penalty doesn't matter, if you have the opportunity for the full alpha, you take it, same as before, you cycle gauss until you've cooled for another anyway, if you get in a brawl you drop back to the 2xPPC + Gauss like you had to do previously to keep burst damage up.

[FupDup]

Rippthrough, on 04 August 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

I just alpha the lot, the heat penalty doesn't matter, if you have the opportunity for the full alpha, you take it, same as before, you cycle gauss until you've cooled for another anyway, if you get in a brawl you drop back to the 2xPPC + Gauss like you had to do previously to keep burst damage up.

Fun fact: alpha'ing 3 PPCs after the ghost heat update only generates 2.08 more heat than 4 PPCs did prior to ghost heat.

[Erata]

SubRyan, on 04 August 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

If you end up in a 1v1 at the very end of the match with someone loaded out with this, I find the best answer is to suicide by map

You can be reported for this lol, so I wouldn't recommend doing this unless you're ok with getting temp-banned.

[Elizander]

I'm going against the flow and using 2xPPC + UAC5 (sometimes two on an Atlas).

[SubRyan]

Erata, on 04 August 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

You can be reported for this lol, so I wouldn't recommend doing this unless you're ok with getting temp-banned.

How is this ban worthy?

[YueFei]

FearTheAmish, on 04 August 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

So your saying for LRM's to not counter snipers they have to be much more peek and shoot (so staying down), Have ECM (limit the number of jump snipers). Most good LRM teams run 1 ECM atlass with LRMS and 2 stalker LRM boats and a spotter with tag. This allows them to rain on a position either causing the snipers to move or keep them down if they bounce up LRMS are incoming.

What is this I don't even.... you realize snipers peek and shoot because to stay exposed is to invite death, whether that comes from enemy LRMs or from enemy snipers. If a sniper can peek and shoot and successfully avoid counter-sniper fire, he will easily be avoiding LRM fire as well. I don't see what your ECM Atlas does to stop enemy snipers from finding and hitting their targets, considering that they are scanning for enemy mechs by eye, and not relying on targeting data. And like I said, a spotter with TAG is easily negated by simply jumping and powering down. TAG doesn't maintain target lock on a mech that is shut down. You'd have to send your spotter in suicidally close with BAP, within 150 meters, to target a shut-down mech, and at that range he'll easily get one or two-shotted by the best players.

[Wrayeth]

TBH, I don't think the 2 PPC and 1 gauss build needs to be nerfed at all. It's a perfectly viable strategy, and removing it would basically remove the last fully viable sniper build from the game. As that's how I like to play at least some of my mechs (my Founder's Atlas has been running 2 ER PPC and 1 gauss since before double heatsinks were even in the game), I would find that a massive hit to my fun and the variety of different setups available. Also, to those who want to nerf convergence, should people with good aim not get rewarded for accuracy? Or do you want to eliminate skill as an important gameplay aspect?

[YueFei]

Wrayeth, on 04 August 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

TBH, I don't think the 2 PPC and 1 gauss build needs to be nerfed at all. It's a perfectly viable strategy, and removing it would basically remove the last fully viable sniper build from the game. As that's how I like to play at least some of my mechs (my Founder's Atlas has been running 2 ER PPC and 1 gauss since before double heatsinks were even in the game), I would find that a massive hit to my fun and the variety of different setups available. Also, to those who want to nerf convergence, should people with good aim not get rewarded for accuracy? Or do you want to eliminate skill as an important gameplay aspect?

The 2PPC+Gauss build is not working the way it is supposed to based on the IP. And I say this as a person who pilots a Catapult-K2 with 2PPC+Gauss. I've had mech duels that ended in 8 seconds, with just 3 shots. And I'm a mediocre pilot.

The weapon configuration should be allowed and it should be viable, but the way all the damage converges into one spot simply breaks the damage/armor model of TT. It rewards skill, in the same way that an AWP contest in Counterstrike rewards the faster and/or more accurate player, but that's not the style of gameplay that was advertised for MechWarrior Online.

Actually, Homeless Bill's convergence system would've required *more* skill from the shooter to land all shots into the same location. It's easy for someone like me to get lucky once in a while and string together 3 consecutive shots that land in the same spot for a kill. It's much harder for someone to land 9 separate shots on a moving/twisting/evading target, all into the same armor panel. If you have a shooting contest, one in which you must fire more shots to demonstrate consistent accuracy is a more valid way to determine who is really the better marksman.

But since that's not going to be implemented, I'd settle for them raising PPC heat to canonical a values, lowering heat cap to 30, and slowing down PPC projectile velocity. If you slow down the projectile enough, a mech moving laterally forces the shooter to lead off the target, converging weapons on the background and preventing all damage from landing in a single spot... unless the shooter has the skill to compensate for the offset angle, chain fires in a rapid sequence adjusting each time, like an exhibition shooter smashing targets in a rapid fire sequence. Note that even if that case, though, the victim mech has time to move and twist and turn, to take the hits on different armor panels.

Edited by YueFei, 04 August 2013 - 11:46 PM.

[Erata]

SubRyan, on 04 August 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

How is this ban worthy?

Because it is???
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1514160

Mech Suicide Abuse
Some players have been repeatedly finding ways to destroy their ‘Mechs as quickly as possible.
This behaviour denies an otherwise healthy team of an active member, and makes the battle imbalanced. As such, this is prohibited and includes instances of players intentionally and repeatedly running out of bounds, or into the enemy team without tactical intent, or any other way in which a player has found to be self-destructing their `Mech.

[Khobai]

Quote

I'm sitting there doing nothing waiting for heat to dissipate.

Pretty much. The heat penalties they implemented were completely ineffective, and worse yet they punished the hitscan/spread weapons that were keeping lights in check, so now light mechs are out of control again. The best thing PGI could do at this point is just get rid of those stupid heat penalties. Heat was never the problem. It was always convergence as well as a problem with center/side torsos being way underarmored.

Edited by Khobai, 05 August 2013 - 03:44 AM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Wrayeth, on 04 August 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

TBH, I don't think the 2 PPC and 1 gauss build needs to be nerfed at all. It's a perfectly viable strategy, and removing it would basically remove the last fully viable sniper build from the game. As that's how I like to play at least some of my mechs (my Founder's Atlas has been running 2 ER PPC and 1 gauss since before double heatsinks were even in the game), I would find that a massive hit to my fun and the variety of different setups available. Also, to those who want to nerf convergence, should people with good aim not get rewarded for accuracy? Or do you want to eliminate skill as an important gameplay aspect?

I think the issue is that it's arguably the only viable weapon set-up, period. Large Lasers can't compete at long range anymore (thanks, PGI!) and with Medium Lasers generating extra heat and SRMs doing anemic damage, there aren't that many good brawling loadouts, either.

[Purlana]

Elizander, on 04 August 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

I'm going against the flow and using 2xPPC + UAC5 (sometimes two on an Atlas).

You can get 2x PPC + 2 UAC5 on the highlander if you use a XL engine.

Edited by Purlana, 05 August 2013 - 05:37 AM.

[FupDup]

Kinda relevant:


Russ genuinely thought that people used 6 PPC Stalkers. This thought scares me. Please hold me.

[Cybermech]

People did use 6xPPC stalkers and they were not fun to go up against by people who could shoot.
Plenty of videos going around, what you mean is by the time staking penalties were in 4xPPC builds were in.
Funny your sig calls out PGI for not knowing what they are doing.
Yet you can't even remember what was being played.

You guys keep forgetting that PPC and GUASS is being looked at.
Russ is winding you guys up and you can't even see it.

[FupDup]

Cybermech, on 05 August 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

People did use 6xPPC stalkers and they were not fun to go up against by people who could shoot.

People who knew what they were doing used 4 PPC or 2 PPC + 2 ERPPC (or some other mech with Gauss + 2 PPC). The 6 PPC build is a joke that requires an XL engine; and the Stalker has perhaps the largest side torso hitboxes in the game. They also couldn't even alpha strike very much even before the ghost heat change was implemented. It's just a bad build. 6 PPC Stalkers were an endangered species since months ago.

Cybermech, on 05 August 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

Yet you can't even remember what was being played.

So says he who thinks 6 PPC Stalkers were a threat.

Edited by FupDup, 05 August 2013 - 07:04 AM.