10 replies to this topic

[JingleHell]

If this game is to have a competitive scene (which I'd love, as it would motivate me to play "properly"), there's a few things that requires.

1: Map Balance
I'd better preface this one: For casual play, I love the current map pool.

There's a reason most competitive video games try to have symmetrical maps. If the map gives either spawn point even the vaguest of advantages, competitive players will exploit it all day, because that's one of those competitive things.

Now, maybe if different spawns had totally different types of advantages, and you could choose multiple drop locations, that would be reasonable.

Alpine, for example: I like it as a map. But generally, the ridge with the radio tower on the high ground provides a dominant position. And one team just plain has an easier time controlling that point, because they know where their opponents come from.

So, if we were going to keep non-symmetrical maps, then there should be attacking team and defending team. Defending team chooses spawn first, attacking team is able to spot spawn location and choose theirs second, to give them the best approaches on the enemy for their individual strengths. This way, defenders might get the high ground advantage, but the attackers get more flexibility on how to work around it.

2: Proper Matchmaking
I mean come on, guys. Proper weight balancing, tonnage/class restrictions, minimum # per weight class... something. Granted, sometimes people overcome, but competitive play isn't about overcoming odds that were stacked against you by the game. The odds should be all about the players.

3: Custom Games and Spectating
Spectating from within your teammate's cockpit after you die doesn't cut it. Being able to watch matches as they progress is an awesome feature even if you're not doing a competitive game. Bird's eye view can help you really pick up on stuff sometimes.

Custom games, of course, allow for Scrimmaging and testing, without subjecting people who really didn't want to run into the competitive players. It's hard enough for most games to keep the competitive versus casual stuff out of non-competitive games even if they have these features. Take them out, and it goes insane.


People will, I'm sure, leave comments involving nerfs and buffs, even though that's not what this is about. You can't balance anything else when your information gathering is fundamentally flawed by other forms of imbalance caused by map advantage and team composition.

I'd love to see this game grow into a scene of it's own, instead of an isolated little community with a "Trespassers will be shot" sign. I love to spend time watching games of LoL (which can easily turn into ad revenue, licensing, and the money that comes from increased exposure), and would actually prefer to watch the depth that this game could spawn.

Peanut gallery?

[3rdworld]

Until they have the tech for specific groups to match others, and a better social system or a way for players to interact with each other not just during the match.

It is unlikely the comp scene will ever be larger than it is now (which is probably the lowest it has been since CB).

[OneEyed Jack]

JingleHell, on 29 July 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Alpine, for example: I like it as a map. But generally, the ridge with the radio tower on the high ground provides a dominant position. And one team just plain has an easier time controlling that point, because they know where their opponents come from.

Do you not realize that said hill can be completely ignored, since it's so far away from the line between bases that you could just walk past it, out of any effective weapons range? If one is dumb enough to assault a highly defensible position for no particular reason, they deserve the loss.

[JingleHell]

OneEyed Jack, on 29 July 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Do you not realize that said hill can be completely ignored, since it's so far away from the line between bases that you could just walk past it, out of any effective weapons range? If one is dumb enough to assault a highly defensible position for no particular reason, they deserve the loss.

And if one chooses to ignore it, one's only option is to attempt to cap, because if you move away from the ridge, you have permanently surrendered the high ground. If you do choose to move that direction and cap, unless you're in a team comprised entirely of lights, the other team will get to play fish in a barrel with the slower part of your conga line.

The purpose of finding a means to balance maps isn't to remove options, merely to ensure that, all else being equal, one spawn location isn't inherently superior.

[Ralgas]

OneEyed Jack, on 29 July 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Do you not realize that said hill can be completely ignored, since it's so far away from the line between bases that you could just walk past it, out of any effective weapons range? If one is dumb enough to assault a highly defensible position for no particular reason, they deserve the loss.

or if you really want to you loop around the hills and assault it from the east/west from the same level/higher ground still

[Master Q]

JingleHell, on 29 July 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

And if one chooses to ignore it, one's only option is to attempt to cap, because if you move away from the ridge, you have permanently surrendered the high ground. If you do choose to move that direction and cap, unless you're in a team comprised entirely of lights, the other team will get to play fish in a barrel with the slower part of your conga line.

The purpose of finding a means to balance maps isn't to remove options, merely to ensure that, all else being equal, one spawn location isn't inherently superior.

Not just that, if you choose to try to circle and cap, the enemy team just takes about 100m walk and can bring sniper weapons to bear on their own base, leaving you the choice of either staying put and dying or running back off and losing on timer.

[Mystere]

Ralgas, on 29 July 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

or if you really want to you loop around the hills and assault it from the east/west from the same level/higher ground still

Why bother? We'll just cap the enemy base and let them come to us.

[JingleHell]

Mystere, on 29 July 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Why bother? We'll just cap the enemy base and let them come to us.

Except the team with the high ground has both the safer and more direct routes to cap from those positions. If the lower team wants to circumvent direct fire from the higher ground locations, they've got to go an extra 1-2km out of their way comparatively.

And as for getting to a higher position than ****** Ridge, well, that's also longer distance to get into position than getting to the ridge, unless you deliberately skip cover to do it, and with less cover available once you're in position.

Spoiler

Map to look at, just to help out. If the second team got to pick one of several locations to spawn at, it would let players dictate tactics, rather than the map. Being able to spawn somewhere around H5, for example, would let the bottom team choose a slightly more direct route to the base, with better access to high ground cover of their own, or they could choose the current spawn to try and metagame their opponent.

[NinetyProof]

There is not a problem with alpine ... the com tower hill is not the end all / be all of that map in any way shape or form.

Yes, if the team on that side is a sniper team, and the other team is a brawler team, it can be hard for the brawler ... but what about the other way around? Brawler team would find that hill practically useless. Either way, there are ways for a brawler team to win against a sniper team that has the com tower hill.

Bottom line, the maps are fine and are not at issue at all. Some maps favor sniper heavy teams, some maps favor brawler teams, all maps *can* be won by either or ... it's just harder on some then the others ... takes more tactical brains.

The main and only real issue right now is the in ability to drop "against" a set team. The is really the biggest and *only* real hurdle for competitive play ... everything else is chicken poop in comparison.

[OneEyed Jack]

JingleHell, on 29 July 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

And if one chooses to ignore it, one's only option is to attempt to cap, because if you move away from the ridge, you have permanently surrendered the high ground. If you do choose to move that direction and cap, unless you're in a team comprised entirely of lights, the other team will get to play fish in a barrel with the slower part of your conga line.

Master Q, on 29 July 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Not just that, if you choose to try to circle and cap, the enemy team just takes about 100m walk and can bring sniper weapons to bear on their own base, leaving you the choice of either staying put and dying or running back off and losing on timer.

First of all, it's a lot more than 100m.
Second, there's a large hill they have to go back over/around, and most of the ones with heavy ranged firepower can't go over very quickly, particularly with the new slope effect.
Third, even if they do, the ranges are long enough that the damage is poor, so they have to move even more.
Fourth, there's cover that can be used by mechs standing in the base.
Fifth, that all assumes they can even make it to shooting positions, since most of the idiots go to the far side (border side) of the tower hill and won't even see you go by or realize you did until you're standing on their base.
Sixth, you don't need to rush their base with your entire team, since 1 or 2 is plenty to pull them out of their prepared position and give you the chance to engage them on more favorable terms.
Seventh, the options are in no way limited to rushing the tower hill or taking the long way around on the road.

I know all this may be a little much for you to comprehend. It's called tactics, and it would behoove you to learn a little.

[Tennex]

three words

private game maker

Edited by Tennex, 29 July 2013 - 07:59 PM.