15 replies to this topic

[Blue Hymn]

So, after getting my arse handed to me repeatedly for some time now, I want to ask the community for some advice, tips and tricks for certain conditions and matches, given some of the things I've encountered in the current meta of MWO.

Note - I almost always run PUGS, so I don't have the benefit of running premades or being able to communicate to other teams via fancy teamspeak or stuff like that. That, and I usually run the Awesome Chassis. And before you laugh at me for choosing that mech - I like the mech, and it needs loving. Serious loving. More loving than what the community and the developers are treating it nowadays.



Case 1: FATLAS DROPS

3+ Atlas D-DCs.

I'm seeing them in almost every drop, and while I can understand their deadliness, it sucks dealing with more than 2 atlases. They're sticking to each other like glue, and roflstomping their way towards your base. Heaven help you if it's Assault, though Conquest is a bit more manageable, given their slow speed. Tips and tricks against fighting against these behemoths?

Case 2: Premades & Sync Drops

They seem coordinated, their banners are the same color, you get the gut feeling that they're premades when you see a bunch of the same mech running around in tight fashion. Kiss your rear goodbye, or is there a potential game-changer that can be done against the lethal group?

Case 3: For the Swarm

Nothing sucks more than being swarmed by enemy lights. Three jenners can run circles around you and tear your mech apart, and while your team might be able to help shoot at the fast ********, most matches are every man for himself. Any tips, tricks to combat against the hostile zergling swarm?

Case 4: Facehugger Syndrome

With heat penalties nerfing the crap out of energy weapons (plus the incoming ER/Normal Energy weapon grouping nerf on the 30th), a lot of matches have been switching over to ballistics and missiles. Understandable, but you now see a lot of Victors, Cataphracts, Jagers and whatnot in matches nowadays, switching over to the famed but deadly AC20s, Gauss Rifles and its counterparts. Add that with SRMs, and it ruins somebody's day somewhere, sometime. Tips and tricks against a swarm of these Facehuggers?

Case 5: ECM Blackout

Missile support is one way of dealing with Case 4, the Facehugger syndrome, but all it takes is just one ECM mech to get close and neuter your capability to fight. Heaven help you again if it's FATLAS and D-DCs.

Case 6: Last Man Standing

Those times when your team gets annihilated by the cases mentioned above, and you're the last man standing. Life sucks, you're not fast enough to outrun them, and you're stuck in a hot map. Eject, or go down blazing?

So, fellow readers. What are your suggestions for these cases? Have you encountered some other situations that needs some tips, tricks and advices as well?

Discuss.

[aniviron]

If you're looking for one thing to combat all of this, you'll be very disappointed. Then again, a few weeks ago, I would have said, "PPCs can fix every single one of these problems for you," and at least that isn't true anymore.

But really, most of these can be solved by just being a better pilot, and sticking with your team, insofar as there is a solution. I mean, there's nothing in the game that will just make you better than a premade group, which is honestly a good thing, as it means teamwork and tactics are rewarded. Just stop pretending you can move away from your big ball of pubbies and you won't be getting singled out by lights, and if a premade targets you specifically, your teammates can at least fire back at them.

[RuzzBot]

My first advice would be to make some friends and try premades. There are plenty of friendly groups out there; I'm a ghost bear myself and I can say we have a warm and welcoming group. Being in a premade makes it a totally different game.

Now, for the PUG advice:

Case 1: FATLASS drops:

1) Atlai excel up close. Tearing at them from afar will give you a chance to finish what you started if (when) they get up close. Their most dangerous weapon (ac20/gauss/dual uac5) is in their right torso. Aim for that. Atlai trying to play the sniper/lrm game are at a disadvantage. Note thay you will NEVER be able to stand up to three atlai alone. Stick with the other pUGS, if only to increase the amount of available targets

Case 2: premades

If you're up against a premade, there's usually one on your side as well. Ask at the start of the match if there is one, then stick with them. They'll appreciate the support, and you'll be safer because you're in a group.

Case 3:

Don't be alone. Most light swarms pick on isolated targets. If they pick on you, put your back against the wall and aim for the legs. Type 'help' and your location in chat and hope for a decent PUGger in your team.

Case 4: facehuggers

Don't be in front. The awesome is a support mech, play it like that. Also, learn the mechs and their hitbox locations (http://mwomercs.com/...x-localisation/ ). If they're fast and packing ac20s (jagers come to mind) they're usually running an xl engine. Easier to take that out then the ct.

Case5: ECM blackout:

TAG

Case 6: last man standing: if you can't win, die with honour. Don't prolong the game if there's nothing to gain. If you've almost won on caps: feel free to hide!

I hope this helped you out a bit, and good luck with the awesomes!

Edited by RuzzBot, 27 July 2013 - 11:26 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Have the greater will to live, even in face of the inevitable.

[Blue Hymn]

aniviron, on 27 July 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

If you're looking for one thing to combat all of this, you'll be very disappointed. Then again, a few weeks ago, I would have said, "PPCs can fix every single one of these problems for you," and at least that isn't true anymore.

But really, most of these can be solved by just being a better pilot, and sticking with your team, insofar as there is a solution. I mean, there's nothing in the game that will just make you better than a premade group, which is honestly a good thing, as it means teamwork and tactics are rewarded. Just stop pretending you can move away from your big ball of pubbies and you won't be getting singled out by lights, and if a premade targets you specifically, your teammates can at least fire back at them.

Perhaps I phrased the topic and my question wrongly; I ain't looking for one cure-all solution to this. I am curious however, of anyone who has any insights into tackling some of the common tactics seen in most MWO matches other than sticking together to your team for protection. I understand that yes, it helps ensure survivability when we have mechs sticking close to each other, and yes, focused fire is much better in taking down a mech - though there are times which you find yourself isolated either by a wrong turn in the map, or in the face of overwhelming firepower, or even being the last man standing.

Besides - since this branch of forums is all about Guides and Strategies, it doesn't hurt to ask something that may seem...common sense, per se.

Edited by Blue Hymn, 27 July 2013 - 11:34 PM.

[Tuann]

Well, the advice from ruzz is solid. :-)

If you play a support mech,.. Then stay with your group, the main body. I am repeating it, but it is golden rule 1. (Exception is conquest or if you pilot a scout,.. Scouts need to scout :-). )
It is perfectly ok to support from second line, but within 200m of the front mechs.
It will help you with syndrome 2,3 and 4.
Premades run tightly in coordination, only coordinated fire from your team side on will help.
Try to shoot the same target someone else is also shooting on. Focussed fire helps to remove mechs quicker from the battlefield.

1. Fatlas drops,... Give the ground,.. Do not slug it out f2f,.. Keep your distance, focus fire and aim for side torso's.
Loosing a side torso removes 50% of the atlas' weaponry,... Suddenly it is much less dangerous,.. Xcept for being a meatshield.
If there are 3 atlasses, and one has lost both side toro's,.. Ignore it and shoot the others. Its tempting to go for the kill, but an atlas witout weapons is no threat,.. His two buddies with full weapons are... Be greedy,.. You might Die ;-)
Use your speed to circle around, do not stop moving,...
And yeah, one v three atlasses is pointless :-)

3. Equip some streaks or pulse lasers,.. Go for the legs.

Most tactics against coordinated packs require support and coordination aswell. Without comms you are at a severe disadvantage, and that will always be the case. Like aniviron said,... Thats a good thing....

Edited by Tuann, 28 July 2013 - 03:02 AM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Against Atlases, PPC/Gauss rips them up (slow + big hitboxes + bad long-range weapon locations), and it's reasonably effective in brawls as well.

For Awesomes, the last patch was pretty brutal. You did get a nice SRM buff, and chain-firing your PPCs will avoid heat penalties (and for the next two days, PPC and ERPPC count as different weapons for heat scale purposes), so it's not a complete loss. What sort of weapons do you run?

[Zordicron]

To run an Awesome effectively, you must do these things:

Stay out of the front. Yes, you are 80 tons. And you are more agile then most assault mechs. But you are gigantic, and your loadouts dont include ballistic fire, so you will need to allocate a good bit of crit space to DHS, and your cooldowns for weaponfire will be slower. You need to hang back. Not like, WAY back, but let the other assaults go first. Even a group of heavy mechs. Then, once the enemy has been located and a fight begins, find a fire angle with a bit of cover and off to the side or back out at mid range at least and support fire.

Run a big enough engine. The 8 series is hardly sprint fast, but you need to run more then 48kph in an Awesome. Even if you run an 8R with tons of LRM, try to at least get into the 50's. Anything less will make turn rates and accel. and decel. turtle slow and you will be severely hindered in trying to flank or position. The 9M/baby you should run an XL. I run a 370 in mine. If you are not going to do 75kph+ in the baby or 9M, then the 8 series will do it better, whatever the loadout.

Put most of the armor to the front. Seriously, the stock armor config for an Awesome is like 30 points armor to the rear. Remember that engine thing? yeah, if you run a bigger engine, you can turn to keep the enemy from shooting you in the back, even lights. Then you can run lower armor on the back, which will make eating an LRM salvo or someones poptart shot a little more bearable, and less 2 shot dead.

PPC. The 8Q, 9M are good for PPC. Put 2 in the torso. The rest do better with other things, though a case could be made for the Baby. 8R, run a lot of LRM. It has MEGA tube count, dropping some LRM15+artemis in them makes a solid long range supprt mech. The 8V can also do this, slightly less missile count, slightly more laser. I do not own the 8T, but with two 20 tube launchers, I expect it is similar to the V and R. Running SRM in the 8V, 8R, or even the 8T is likely not a great idea, the 8 series is too slow for prolonged brawl. SRM's are not support fire, they are brawl weapons. I do run SRM lon my 9M and Baby. Not for prolonged brawl, but as a striker. hit and run.

because the Awesome requires longer cooldown and hot weapons, it is paramount to stay out of the middle of the brawl. 8 series should be at mid range, using LRM or PPC to support the brawlers on the team. 9M and Baby should be striker units- stay in cover, find a fringe enemy or something you know you can outrun like even an atlas. Find an angle with a solid retreat route, then full speed ahaed and unload an alpha or two and fade away. 9M and baby also make fair RTB mechs for anti-cap, on smaller maps. On alpine or tourmaline, even a 400XL wont make Baby fast enough to get back. But on things like Forest colony or River city, those jenners or ravens trying to cap will be expecting to see a light or medium coming at them to stop their cap. 80 tons of Awesome will ruin their day. The stay at range and striker styles will help you with that atlas issue. You will not win if you brawl an Atlas.

If you end up somehow out away from your team, it is going to get you killed. While you do not want to be up in front, you also dont want to be 900M away either. The best way to stop swarming lights is to beeline for the bulk of your team, right into the middle of them if you can. The standard PUG is filled with so much HATE of anything small and fast, they will immediatly turn to shoot anything stupid enough to follow you into the crowd, even if there is an Atlas coming over the hill.

As for premades, well- all you got is the skill level of your team. Try to call out enemy locations in team chat. If you see something particularily nasty, or an opportunity to focus an enemy in a bad position, try to call that out. Like a LRM catapult that got too far out from his team, or an Atlas that got left behind and you can flank it. It is really hard to fight as a PUG against a group of voice chat players, but if you can sieze the small opportunity and your team is not a group of derps, you can win.

LRM vs ECM: Fatlas DDC is going to ruin your day, but if you have a light that has half a clue, you will get some targets. Run Tag. Find positions to fire LRM that provide cover and escape routes. Dont be that guy that runs to the middle of the lake on Forest Colony because it gives uyou the best view to fire LRM. Also, do not be afraid to fire a blob of missiles without lock if something is being a derp and standing still. I killed 2 Atlas and several medium mechs this way on my journy to 1/1 Master my 8R LURMPOCKOLYPSE. They think they are safe with ECM. They do not get the Betty "incoming missile warning" they do not see the blob of doom above them, and get face-splat. Most of the time, it will miss from anything over 300M this way, but even then, they will see/hear the explosion near them and it will cause tem to seek cover. LRM play is more diverse then kill the enemy. Area control and harrasment are very important aspects.

hope this helps

[Redshift2k5]

In some cases the maxim "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" comes to mind.

Most of those situations can be overcome with coordination, and coordination is best achieved by playing in group using voice comms. Obviously if you're facing another group, then whoever has the best combination of superior coordination + superior pilots has a huge edge.

But, don't feel that a group of 4 with the same faction tag is always any better than four uncoordinated pilots. I've had lots of matches where I, by myself as a pug, have outmatched an entire 4-man group of heavier mechs.

for lights, as said above, don't get caught alone. The issue of 3-4 coordinated lights tearing up individual players is just as bad as 4 coordinated Assaults doing the same... however both will hopefully be dealt with when we see team tonnage become a factor in building a group.

Quote

http://mwomercs.com/...st-paul-inouye/
While still under heavy investigation, weight balancing during match making will restrict the number of heavies/assaults that a team will be able to bring to the battlefield. There are multiple ways to approach this but we are taking our time to ensure we pick the right path to maximize the effectiveness of what we can do in the short term.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 28 July 2013 - 08:45 AM.

[mailin]

A couple of things that haven't been mentioned. First: mount a BAP in every mech that has either lrms or streaks. If you have the room and available tonnage, mount a BAP in every mech you have. It won't do much if the enemy has multiple ECMs close together, but against a single ECM mech, it makes the world of difference. Second: Lights do best in open terrain. If the enemy has several lights all working together try to move somewhere that will restrict them. Whether it's a cave, or a city. Always try to limit the number of ways they can come at you. Third: For all ECM mechs, the ecm unit is mounted in the left torso. If a DDC has lost its big guns in the RT, shoot at the LT. Take out the ECM and they become a lot easier to deal with.

Edited by mailin, 28 July 2013 - 09:58 AM.

[Blue Hymn]

Great replies from the community. Didn't thought about putting BAP on some of the LRM variant for the Awesome -- hell, I completely forgot that BAP does help against lone ECM mechs. Dx

Royalewithcheese, on 28 July 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Against Atlases, PPC/Gauss rips them up (slow + big hitboxes + bad long-range weapon locations), and it's reasonably effective in brawls as well.

For Awesomes, the last patch was pretty brutal. You did get a nice SRM buff, and chain-firing your PPCs will avoid heat penalties (and for the next two days, PPC and ERPPC count as different weapons for heat scale purposes), so it's not a complete loss. What sort of weapons do you run?

I hate to say it, but I'm running the default stock build of the AWS8Q on a AWS8T. Instead of 3PPCs, 2 of them is ER, and the other one is on the other arm. Since on the 8T there's two energy slots on the left and right arm, when you're leading targets - especially when targeting fast mechs - I get a lot more flexibility in aim compared to the other Awesome variants. Small laser is just there in case both my arms gets blown off, and the rest of the space is devoted to cramming the biggest standard engine I can into the sucker - ST290 - and as many double heat sinks as possible - 20 total.

Main reason why I don't use SRMS was mainly that I find myself placed in hot maps pretty damn often - Tourmaline, for example - and fighting, at least for my Awesome, usually takes place well beyond the 400m range. For preference, instead of placing srms into a ppc build, I rather devote that tonnage into extra heat sinks. Faster cooling of weapons = more chances of firing them in the heat of battle.

[Royalewithcheese]

Blue Hymn, on 28 July 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Great replies from the community. Didn't thought about putting BAP on some of the LRM variant for the Awesome -- hell, I completely forgot that BAP does help against lone ECM mechs. Dx



I hate to say it, but I'm running the default stock build of the AWS8Q on a AWS8T. Instead of 3PPCs, 2 of them is ER, and the other one is on the other arm. Since on the 8T there's two energy slots on the left and right arm, when you're leading targets - especially when targeting fast mechs - I get a lot more flexibility in aim compared to the other Awesome variants. Small laser is just there in case both my arms gets blown off, and the rest of the space is devoted to cramming the biggest standard engine I can into the sucker - ST290 - and as many double heat sinks as possible - 20 total.

Main reason why I don't use SRMS was mainly that I find myself placed in hot maps pretty damn often - Tourmaline, for example - and fighting, at least for my Awesome, usually takes place well beyond the 400m range. For preference, instead of placing srms into a ppc build, I rather devote that tonnage into extra heat sinks. Faster cooling of weapons = more chances of firing them in the heat of battle.

That makes sense. Maybe go to 2 PPC/2 Large Laser? I'm not actually sure how I'd go about making the stock Awesome work in our brave new heat scaling world, but best of luck

[Nebelfeuer]

You might want to consider this alternative loadout for the 8T http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f7e332acde5bea6
It gives you more punsh and adds inddirect fire(allways a good idea on a big and slow mech) and the utility of TAG +BAP while still not running hotter then your 2ER/1PPC builds.

Besides the std 300 is a better choice then the 290 because of the better heatmanagement due to 2 heatsinks inside the engine

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 28 July 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[jozkhan]

How to sink an Atlas?

Shoot him in the back

I run awesomes and get some good results out of mine though I had to save up for the best XL engines for each one, it makes you scary fast (especially in the 9M) which you need to get out of trouble and for good positioning (i.e. getting behind the fatlass)

I also run at least 1 streak on each to keep lights off me

Edited by jozkhan, 28 July 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[Justy Starflare]

My first mechs I bought were the awesome and may have some advice and hopes it helps. 1st utilize your cover try to stay close or under cover as much as possible stay near buildings and hills taller then your mech, don't try sniping you expose too much of your trsos to enemy counter fire.. 2nd. Since you're usually faster then an atlas or stalker or highlander and since there is almost always at least on in a drop follow.(support) them. Let them engage first don't be afraid to fall back under cover . 3rd ams is your friend use it also if your platform allows you to mount 2. 4th paint job if you stand out you will attract more attention. My awesome are red and black harking from my TT gaming days merc colours. I draw a lot of attention even when another plain colour awesome is right beside me. 5th make friends and drop with them even if you don't use voice the more you become acquainted with their play stylesand they to yours, this familiarity with your friends will get you some wins.

[Blue Hymn]

Royalewithcheese, on 28 July 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

That makes sense. Maybe go to 2 PPC/2 Large Laser? I'm not actually sure how I'd go about making the stock Awesome work in our brave new heat scaling world, but best of luck

Thanks. Issues with Large Lasers is generally the requirement of maintaining a steady fire on the target. I used to run 5-6 Large Lasers on the 8Q before the heat nerf, since a burst or two from that can strip armor off an Assault like a hot knife through butter. But with the current heat scale, well...you get the idea.

Also, another reason that I found disdaining for lasers in general, is that heat raises up WHILE firing, and only cools down when the duration of the laser beam is depleted. Instead of the PPCs, in which you get an instant percent of heat spike per fire followed by immediate cooldown, lasers are a quick way to build up heat fast, and begins to be a bit problematic when you're pushing the 70-80% heat tolerance, especially when you're under heavy fire. I do have to say that lasers do work rather well against lights, but in certain situations, the punch of 3 ppcs - instantaneous damage, like ballistics - is my preferred choice to punch through heavy armor, especially when I'm confronted with a team of heavies and assaults.

On the bright side - with a bit of better tactics taken from this thread, I find myself surviving a lot more often than usual. I still play as a PUG, but I think I've found my role in most of the matches - stripping off armor off enemy mechs, and letting my team take the kills. I find it much easier to deal with that while providing a consistent barrage of ppcs against the opposition.

So far, it's working....though I shudder to wonder how bad it'll get again when the heat patch comes in today. Dx