44 replies to this topic

[Majed]

Bring back Repair & Rearm costs and you will see many players go back to mediums to save the costs just like in the days of close beta .

[Deathlike]

Mediums themselves are probably more or less "OK" in the sense that they are usable. However, this comes at the cost of a high skill requirement. You literally would have to make up the deficiencies of a medium by generally knowing better... the pitfalls and picking your spots.

If you're doing well in a medium, you could probably be doing better in a non-medium mech.

[Tezcatli]

Gunivar, on 28 July 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

Been getting back into this game, and one glaring thing I notice as a Medium pilot is that there is barely any Medium mechs used. Usually any other Mediums I see are designed for being a fast sniper.
Here is some reasons why I think Mediums are doing badly:
1. Abundance of Heavies and Assaults. Without any system ensuring only a certain amounts of heavier Mechs can be used, any Medium pilot can be forced to fight against almost whole teams of Assaults and Heavies.
Mediums are meant to be the primary force of the team, not the minor support.
2. Slow Rotation Speed
For supposedly being more agile than Heavies, the rotation speed can be rather pathetic, making it hard to use despite sacrificing the armor of Heavies.
3. Fire Power of Lights
Light Mechs can sport firepower that rivals many Medium Mechs that aren't sacrificing performance for more firepower. Combined with being faster, a skilled team of Lights can become far more valuable than a skilled team of Mediums.
4. Dead Too quickly.
Mediums lack the speed to avoid many heavier attacks, and do not have the armor to withstand them directly. While Heavy and Assault mechs can withstand a barrage of missiles without suffering too much, Mediums are just not fast enough to avoid missiles if they are not in a convient place at all times (thus the game ends up being even more like Peeka Boo). Combine this with all the PPC Stalkers...

TL DR: Not enough of a clear firepower edge to justify being slower than Lights, not enough speed to justify being squishier than Heavies.

I agree with everything. Though the first point may be fixed if they implement tonnage restrictions, but I suspect that it'll just mean more lights.

I think the problem is that lights have that lousy hit detection going for them and no collision to slow them down. Plenty of times that I could have knocked a light down, but couldn't, even though they'd just run right into me to get under my line of fire.

Which makes me think maybe Mediums should get a better vertical pitch. It would deter ankle biting and make mediums better on terrain that rises and falls. I think that would definitely give the medium a better tactical ability.

[Corbon Zackery]

Keifomofutu, on 28 July 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

A 72km/h medium IS a slow walking coffin.

No that fine speed for a 45 ton mech that's like 5 walk and 8 run.
My Treb a bit faster but Its packing 3 large lasers and 3 streak launchers.
Cent and hunch are walking at 64kph.

I have 23 mechs plus in Oct. I get 12 because I bought overlord package.

BLACKJACK BJ-1X 28 17 11 1.55 15 18 0.83 4,760 12,110 02:58:50

You can see here that my BlackJack been a beast 15 kills and 18 death in 02:58:50 gameplay time over 4,760 damage.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 28 July 2013 - 09:51 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Corbon Zackery, on 28 July 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

No that fine speed for a 45 ton mech that's like 5 walk and 8 run.
My Treb a bit faster but Its packing 3 large lasers and 3 streak launchers.
Cent and hunch are walking at 64kph.

I have 23 mechs plus in Oct. I get 12 because I bought overlord package.

5/8 is 81kph.
5/8 in MWO is 89.1 (after speed-tweak).

[Corbon Zackery]

One Medic Army, on 28 July 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

5/8 is 81kph.
5/8 in MWO is 89.1 (after speed-tweak).

VOX 225 gets you 5 walk 8 Run on a 45ton I have my own mech-lab.
http://remlab.source...mlab30/mech.lab

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 28 July 2013 - 09:57 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Corbon Zackery, on 28 July 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

VOX 225 gets you 5 walk 8 Run on a 45ton I have my own mech-lab.
http://remlab.source...mlab30/mech.lab

My point was that 72kph is quite a bit below 5/8 as far as MWO equivalency goes.

[Keifomofutu]

Corbon Zackery, on 28 July 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

VOX 225 gets you 5 walk 8 Run on a 45ton I have my own mech-lab.
http://remlab.source...mlab30/mech.lab

This is not TT. You've got a medium running far less speed than the average heavy that will overheat in two alphas. What do you think will happen when that heavy catches you. Or heck a victor.

[Deathlike]

The JJ BJs are truly the slow snipers of MWO. They can snipe, but every other mech that can do the same are marginally slower but bring way more and sustainable firepower to the table.

When you make the BJs Brawlers (BJ-1 + 1DC), they also happen to be the slowest brawlers for the weaker firepower they bring.

If you can make chicken salad out of the chicken poop that is not the BJ-1X, you are a better player than you realize.

[Adridos]

Majed, on 28 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Bring back Repair & Rearm costs and you will see many players go back to mediums to save the costs just like in the days of close beta .

Noone will play them just like in Closed beta.

They were played only when DHS didn't exist, taking a big weapon was a suicide and we lacked any good heavies (well, Catapult was great, but a very specialized deal)..

[Lightfoot]

Strangely, when I take a medium, there are few Assaults, 1 or 2. When I take an Assault, there's 3-5.

Anyway, based on previous MechWarrior games I know for certain that the mechs are all too fragile, weak to damage. Once the Clans arrive mechs will just go pffft! This is why the heat-scaling nerf was the wrong way to go, wrong fix. If you are nerfing Inner Sphere's meager weapons you are in deep do-do. But yeah, don't listen to me, I have only been playing MechWarrior for 14 years so I obviously know nothing.

Anyway, that's why no one takes mediums, they already go pffft! The solution is the mechs need to be tougher. More armor is easy, over-lapping hit-boxes is more work. Nerfing IS tech weapons is pathetic.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Have an idea. Just gonna say it without thinking of the consequences. So here it is: What if... the medium weight class has an overall perk buff. A perk buff as in c-bill making bonus! Huh? Huh? The go-to weight class for grinding moneys! Okay I'm done.

[One Medic Army]

B3RZ3RK3R, on 28 July 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Have an idea. Just gonna say it without thinking of the consequences. So here it is: What if... the medium weight class has an overall perk buff. A perk buff as in c-bill making bonus! Huh? Huh? The go-to weight class for grinding moneys! Okay I'm done.

It's a bad idea to use out-of-match perks to balance in-match performance.
Mediums will be popular enough if they stop being inferior.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

One Medic Army, on 28 July 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

It's a bad idea to use out-of-match perks to balance in-match performance.
Mediums will be popular enough if they stop being inferior.

Would make sense if R&R was still tickin'... okay even then it probably wouldn't. Imma just go back to my jello. :]

[LordDante]

me having fun in my wang all day !

[Khobai]

R&R was a flawed mechanic that did more harm than good to new players and hardly affected good players or 4-mans because they didnt die.

Not to mention R&R had no real purpose... the other mechwarrior games had R&R because you actually had salvage you had to decide whether or not you wanted to repair or just sell off. MWO doesnt have that so R&R has no point whatsoever.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Hotthedd, on 28 July 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

Why take a medium when you can take an assault?

There is no tonnage limit on drops, so there is no reason to take a medium mech.

Assaults are slow wallowing pigs, that is why I don't take an Assault

Mediums get a bad rep. I also use Mediums from time to time with fairly good results. I am not going to outright say that Mediums take more skill, but you do have to play more sneaky. Use speed and cover and make sure you aren't the guy most visible on your team.

I know one guy said that lights have just as much firepower and are faster, but lights are more fragile and lights cannot cool as well as a Medium can as well.

Overall, people like the armor security blanket of an Assault along with good firepower. To me, I can't stand piloting them. Give me a Heavy or a Medium any day over an Assault.

[El Bandito]

Centurions everywhere in my matches. Certain mediums are alive and well.

[Orzorn]

El Bandito, on 29 July 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Centurions everywhere in my matches. Certain mediums are alive and well.

Centurions and Blackjacks are easily the most viable mediums (And both are taken in tournament play). Hunchbacks and Trebuchets are pretty much forsaken, as well as Cicadas (to a somewhat lesser extent. They fit in with a rare few weighted tournament drops).

Centurion sticks around because its crazy hitboxes and shape that let it survive a lot of firepower. BJ sticks around because its zippy and small.

Trebuchet is too big, simple as that. Hunchback suffers because of its hunch, and the only build that doesn't have a hunch (4SP) takes less firepower than a centbomb does, while having more favorable (to the enemy) hitboxes.

[oldradagast]

From what I've seen, their main problems are:

1) Need more speed: Many new players may assume that a Medium's starting speed is fine - it's not. Almost all of them need a larger engine to move faster than heavies, which is what allows them to have a clear role. My classic Hunchback (Standard 250, AC20, 3 m. lasers) moves at about 81 without speed tweak. If it was plodding along at 64.8 with the heavies as it would with the stock engine, it would be rather useless.

2) Oversized models: Major problem with the Centurion and Trebuchet - they are almost as big as assault mechs, yet have the armor of mediums. Oops.

3) Mediums are not good at boating: While the boating meta may die down a big, mediums and lights can't carry a billion PPC's, AC20's, or Gauss rifles, so they aren't used as much.