29 replies to this topic

[Braggart]

i love how people claim that mediums pilot their mechs like assaults.

no, one one does that, everyone knows that is a bad idea. What people do with mediums is load it up with as many medium lasers, and srms as possible in order to have a decent amount of firepower. They then proceed to attempt to get into short range combat where they can actually do some damage.

While trying to do that, they have to put up with 3/4 of the mechs on the field being quite capable of grievously wounding them before they can get into range, and then its a losing battle entirely because you already got effed up.

I can win in mediums, but its because i am better than the enemy. When I go up against someone as good as me, but they are using something heavier than a medium, well they are gonna win, they have more armor, more firepower, they can keep in their sights, just like I can keep them in mine. They can target my weaknesses, just like I can target theirs.


It is absurd how much more powerful a dragon or quickdraw is when compared to the 3 50 ton mechs. Those guys are exactly what mediums need to turn into.

Edited by Braggart, 29 July 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[VanillaG]

People forget the first rule of piloting a medium mech:

Always be next to a more interesting target.

If you are running a non-fast medium mech (less than 100km/h), you need to be in group of some sort. The faster you can go gives you more leeway in how far you can be away from the big group. If you get caught by yourself out in the open expect to get owned by everything bigger and smaller than you. You need a certain temperament to pilot mediums which requires you stick with your heavies and not run off by yourself. If you can do that, you can do really well in a medium.

Edited by VanillaG, 29 July 2013 - 03:22 PM.

[Murzao]

Braggart you really have no idea what you're talking about. You're pretty much like that moron 6 months ago that was on the forums daily saying PPCs need their heat reduced to 6 to make them playable. And for the last 3 months PPCs have been 'broken OP' from a simple 2 point reduction which they are reversing back to pre-buff levels.......back before the buff I was using PPCs and they were great but still no-nothings like yourself were whining hard for a PPC buff and got it. And we've spent the last 6 months basically going around in a circle.


Fiddling around with armor values won't achieve anything. The only thing mediums possibly could use (they're already better than heavy/assaults).........is for heavy/assaults to lose their speed/turnspeed boosts...or I guess a 2nd turnspeed boost for mediums achieves the same result......I've said that for weeks and guess what, the dev team is pondering just that.

This is like right up there with the dumbest idea ever.


@VanillaG When I'm in my medium I go where I please (even more so in 8v8s since I can kill any scouts and check for ambushes in my medium they can take a hit). I can kill any assault/heavy in a 1v1...it is them that has to run in a pack not to die from me. Period.

Edited by Murzao, 29 July 2013 - 03:29 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Steel Claws, on 29 July 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

If someone has no imagination and tactical savy - that comment might even be true. They are the base defender/light killer/flanking harassing mech and are great used as this. If you try to use them like most people do - as an assault mech - you won't be successful. Mediums are the work horse of the lances.

And for every single one of these tasks you have a better Mech in one of the other weightclasses...

[Steel Claws]

Thorqemada, on 29 July 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

And for every single one of these tasks you have a better Mech in one of the other weightclasses...

Not really -

Lights can't equip the weapons a medium can and don't have enough armor for prolonged fights.

Heavies don't have the speed to flank and manuver that a medium does. The Mediums I run typically go over 90 kph yet pack several heavy weapons. Trebs, Cents, Cicadas and Blackjacks are all good at hit and run. The Blackjack is perhaps the best sniping mech in the game. My K/D ratio in a Blackjack during the Assaults vs the World was like 10 - 1.

Anyone who says Mediums aren't effective has got a hole in their head.

Edited by Steel Claws, 29 July 2013 - 04:37 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Mediums are fine and have a niche. People just don't like/want to use them appropriately (ie, they think that they're a 40-55 ton Assault mech). But the major detriment of the Medium class is the complete and total lack of a weight limitation. While people will scream that they don't want to have to drop with mechs that they don't like (easily solved by allowing players to queue up with multiple mechs), having drops that are 90% Assaults isn't good for the game. The lack of weight balancing and limitations is as bad for all of us as it is having everyone running around boating mass amounts of LRMS (LRM60s+) or the awesome PPC+Gauss meta.

[Thorqemada]

A few examples:
The Victor (Assault) goes ~85kph + Jumpjets
The Dragon (Heavy) goes up to ~100kph
The Catapult (Heavy) goes ~85kph + Jumpjets
The Jenner goes 152kph+ Jumpjets + 30 dmg in a Pinpoint Alpha or combined 20 Pinpoint and 16 Spread.

What gives:
The Medium competes with Heavys and Assaults that practically are as agile, as fast and better armed.
The Medium is outpaced by Ligths that have still a very good Armanent and the Initiative Advantage and often superior battlefield Durability based on their Size and Speed Advantage.

Aside of the BJ and maybe the Hunchback all Mediums have a Size disadvantage...

Edited by Thorqemada, 29 July 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

I don't mind the size thing, really. Its kind of agree with what Garth said in the last NGNG podcast: "If you reduce them down by 10%, what do you really gain?" You can't turn Mediums into something good by making them just a little smaller. You have to change the environment because Mediums are, for all intents and purposes, alright. Its just that we're playing a game where you can run whatever you want with whatever weapons you want and alpha all you want. In that instance, you simply cannot live long enough to make an impact unless you're an absolute beast with your piloting skills and have 7 badass people along side you.

[Craeshen]

True afaik in tt the only mechs that really gave assault's trouble were the clan heavy mediums. Which were really closer in performance to a lighter heavy.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 29 July 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

I don't mind the size thing, really. Its kind of agree with what Garth said in the last NGNG podcast: "If you reduce them down by 10%, what do you really gain?" You can't turn Mediums into something good by making them just a little smaller. You have to change the environment because Mediums are, for all intents and purposes, alright. Its just that we're playing a game where you can run whatever you want with whatever weapons you want and alpha all you want. In that instance, you simply cannot live long enough to make an impact unless you're an absolute beast with your piloting skills and have 7 badass people along side you.

Resizing them helps with not being shot at with PPCs and other long range weaponry that much harder.

Check out the profile of even a Jenner or Cicada at > 800m. It is difficult to snipe. When you have mechs like the Trebuchet stick out like a sore thumb at that distance, despite having speeds greater than most mediums and heavies...

In essence, it matters when you are being sniped... not so much when you're brawling. In the current PPC/Gauss meta, this becomes more of an issue.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 July 2013 - 06:12 PM.