37 replies to this topic

[Robot Legs]

Ok, I have received information, that the terrorists have devised a nuclear digital whack-a-mole. I will be training with a new mouse prototype over the next few months. This is intense. Ill keep you all informed.

[Roland]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

I didn't say I had 100% Accuracy I just said it is easier than actually shooting. Which you have to admit it is if you fired a weapon a few times.

Lots of things are harder than playing video games.

But the fact remains that most of the folks who claim that shooting in mechwarrior is just point and click are apparently not good at pointing and clicking.

Edited by Roland, 29 July 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I think people are confusing hitting stationary targets with moving a mouse on a computer screen. Aiming a mouse is easy. I'm just slowing with old age.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Robot Legs, on 29 July 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

I think using a boat build does require skill,

Everything in this game requires some type of skill in order to be successful. Some things, however, are inherently more simple, thus making it easier to master and be successful at a particular build or play style.

This is the reason why boating one type of weapon is so favorable outside the blatant bad weapon balancing the game has. Assume that if even all the weapons and roles in this game are perfectly balanced, people would still drift towards one weapon type boating because it is simpler and easier to learn/master.

You can't tell me its not easier to aim on target 8 medium lasers as opposed to say an AC10, 4 medium lasers and an SRM6 and have everything land on target? Thus why people do it, simpler, easier to learn/be successful. Not to say that said other not boated build couldn't be successful, too. It would just take more effort to train yourself to have all weapons hit the target.

Edited by mwhighlander, 29 July 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[Thorqemada]

I was in a Gun Club for a bit of time in my youth though i never liked it really but real life aiming is 1000 times more skill than a "Point and Click System".

What makes aiming hard in MWO is pretty much Hardware and Connnection related and the rest is way more "experience" than superior physical "accuracy".

Edited by Thorqemada, 29 July 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[Robot Legs]

I am good at point and click. I have a Stalker 4n that I have done all sorts of builds with. I can do 900 damage a game, with a few different builds. If I one shot medium, I think its wrong. Better him than me, but at the end of the day, I think its bad for the overall game experience.

[MCXL]

Royalewithcheese, on 29 July 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Random aiming mechanics work when they mesh well with other game elements. Random spread works for Battlefield, it doesn't work in Tribes.

We are a lot closer to battlefield in game play both in pace and in types of projectiles. Tribes the player literally moves up to the same speed as many of the projectiles (if you know how to ski)

It would be like if PPC/AC shots moved at 100KPH

[Xeno Phalcon]

3rdworld, on 29 July 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Explain why there are good players and bad players. if apparently simple aiming is so easy.

Something about some players not being able to control their mech if they can't see its legs to know what direction its going in.

Why do you think 'meta' for awhile involved taking a bunch of ppcs/gauss and jumping up and down like a toddler hopped up on pixie sticks.

[Joseph Mallan]

Robot Legs, on 29 July 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

I am good at point and click. I have a Stalker 4n that I have done all sorts of builds with. I can do 900 damage a game, with a few different builds. If I one shot medium, I think its wrong. Better him than me, but at the end of the day, I think its bad for the overall game experience.

Why? I love it when I drop a Jenner doing 140KpH with a single double AC20 hit. Just like a single AC20 on TT does to a Jenner. If I can One shot a Centurion from behind it makes me all giddy. That is one less Mech My team has to deal with.

[Tor6]

People comparing anything to aiming in a videogame are missing the point of what makes something a skill. Does aiming a mouse with repeatable precision take skill and coordination? Hell yes it does! Have you ever seen someone who has never used a mouse before try to use one? Good lord does it look ridiculous. If you want an example of this, ask someone who has never played a videogame to play a console game. I Guarantee it'll be hilarious when they can't control their character and keep walking off every ledge and into every enemy and shooting at the sky.

Why is using a mouse so easy then? Probably because many people spend upwards of 12 hours a day using one day in and day out. If you have an office job you use a mouse to do your work. When you get home and you browse the web you use a mouse. When you play games you use a mouse. I -guarantee- that if you did ANY activity for 12 hours a day for a decade it'd be second nature for you thanks to muscle memory and practice.

Does this make using a mouse the height of skill? Well no obviously, there's a lot more things that are harder than it. But anyone claiming that using a mouse takes 0 skill are obviously exaggerating greatly. So stop comparing using a mouse (which you do every single day of your lives) to something (like darts) which you probably only do for an hour at a time on rare occasions.

[One Medic Army]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Why? I love it when I drop a Jenner doing 140KpH with a single double AC20 hit. Just like a single AC20 on TT does to a Jenner. If I can One shot a Centurion from behind it makes me all giddy. That is one less Mech My team has to deal with.

Sure. You love it.
The guy on the other end, however, ends up getting frustrated with dying in 1 hit and ends up playing an assault or heavy.

And then people wonder why we have so many Assault and Heavy mechs.

[Screech]

Robot Legs, on 29 July 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'm sorry, did you just equate throwing a dart, to aiming your mouse? If that was the case, I suppose I would be rank 1 dart champ of the world......... I was talking about people who pretend aiming a mouse is hard, and you just proved my point. Get over yourself, aiming a crosshair, is NOT HARD. Throwing a dart, is........ good lord.

Wow. You must really not be good at darts. It's not that hard really. Spend a couple years getting drunk in a bar and you will find it is fairly simple or you will become an alcoholic.

[Joseph Mallan]

One Medic Army, on 29 July 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Sure. You love it.
The guy on the other end, however, ends up getting frustrated with dying in 1 hit and ends up playing an assault or heavy.

And then people wonder why we have so many Assault and Heavy mechs.

Whats your point Medic? A light Mech is not supposed to survive heavy weapons fire it is in the name. They are light Mechs. they sacrifice armor and heavy weapons to be blazing fast! If they quit playing Lights cause a hammer fell on them I would have started playing Lights a long time ago. Cause I die to good light pilots quite often.

[One Medic Army]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Whats your point Medic? A light Mech is not supposed to survive heavy weapons fire it is in the name. They are light Mechs. they sacrifice armor and heavy weapons to be blazing fast! If they quit playing Lights cause a hammer fell on them I would have started playing Lights a long time ago. Cause I die to good light pilots quite often.

My point is that the game currently revolves around combat, any mech which is not good in a combat role is thus underused or un-used as a result.

So long as combat is a primary part of the game, all mechs must be combat viable to be viable.

If you want a game where lights are strictly inferior at combat to everything else, you'll end up getting a game in which nobody plays lights, or they're relegated to the least interesting roles of standing in squares and finding enemies then dying to a single shot.
Which, you know, again means almost nobody will play them.

Oh, and in TT it was much harder to hit the light mech in the first place, not to mention a light mech didn't represent the same force investment as an atlas. Here hitting lights (hitbox issues aside) isn't hard, and a light is to the person controlling it an equal investment as an assault.

Edited by One Medic Army, 29 July 2013 - 05:08 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

One Medic Army, on 29 July 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

My point is that the game currently revolves around combat, any mech which is not good in a combat role is thus underused or un-used as a result.

So long as combat is a primary part of the game, all mechs must be combat viable to be viable.

If you want a game where lights are strictly inferior at combat to everything else, you'll end up getting a game in which nobody plays lights, or they're relegated to the least interesting roles of standing in squares and finding enemies then dying to a single shot.
Which, you know, again means almost nobody will play them.

Then by god give us some of the really good Mechs! Cause if combat is the real point of the game lets have Mechs that can actually fight instead of these Lame ducks that the majority were lame even on TT.

[One Medic Army]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

Then by god give us some of the really good Mechs! Cause if combat is the real point of the game lets have Mechs that can actually fight instead of these Lame ducks that the majority were lame even on TT.

What, like the iconic reseen that are coming soon? Or the ones that Harmony Gold will sue anyone who even thinks about? Or the bunch of hard-hitting iconic mechs we already have? (Atlas, Catapult, Jagermech, Cataphract, Jenner, Hunchback [which was better in TT mainly because of low BV])

There are plenty of combat effective mechs from TT we got, the problem is there's a different measure for effectiveness when fielding something with 1/4 of an Atlases cost and 1/3rd of the firepower is a great substitution. All mechs cost equally here, which is the primary problem we run into for balancing weight classes.

Edited by One Medic Army, 29 July 2013 - 05:18 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

One Medic Army, on 29 July 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

What, like the iconic reseen that are coming soon? Or the ones that Harmony Gold will sue anyone who even thinks about? Or the bunch of hard-hitting iconic mechs we already have? (Atlas, Catapult, Jagermech, Cataphract, Jenner, Hunchback [which was better in TT mainly because of low BV])

There are plenty of combat effective mechs from TT we got, the problem is there's a different measure for effectiveness when fielding something with 1/4 of an Atlases cost and 1/3rd of the firepower is a great substitution. All mechs cost equally here, which is the primary problem we run into for balancing weight classes.

Atlas, Phract(maybe), an Pult. Hunchie was a so so Mech due to lack of speed for a medium. A Jenner was good cause it was a sweet spot tonnage but if it took a single good hit it folded like a chair in Pro Wrestling!

Removing the MM Tonnage matching was a stupid thing for PGI to have done. Yet I can deal with the tonnage SNAFUs cause we aren't supposed to have THAT good of intel. It takes months sometimes for a force to get from home to Planet X for some assaults. Stuff happens, deal with it and clean yourself off afterwards.

[Skadi]

Robot Legs, on 29 July 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'm sorry, did you just equate throwing a dart, to aiming your mouse? If that was the case, I suppose I would be rank 1 dart champ of the world......... Get over yourself.

...
That's all I needed to see.

Edited by Skadi, 29 July 2013 - 05:31 PM.