33 replies to this topic

[Ahmose]

I see topics about removing the base caps. I see responses that say no to this. Both have great points.

No Cap: it sucks when you want to fight toe toe and someone goes and caps and ends the fight.

Cap: it's part of the strategy. learn to adapt and consider this else you lose.

How about a match type thats a no cap, small area kind of match. An arena type of match. Like fighting in the confines of a few city blocks (just and example) I can understand both sides. There have been matches where I wanted just to fight mech on mech till the last is standing. This is a fun kind of match and can be intense. Capping provides a weakpoint (or strongpoint) and gives something to "worry" about or factor into your strategy.

A really easy to alleviate this is create a match type that is close quaters, no cap, all out brawling with a few vantagpoints for snipers and LRMs. Point being you fight to the end. You hide, it only prolongs the inevitable. It's something that could easily be incorporated into the any story line, lore, or just the basic mechanics easily (relatively speaking) as it does with any other MMO games. It's just a suggestion to add onto the existing mechanics of this game. It can be created or even built upon (example being only so many arena matches per day or you have to sign up for arena matches with a full team and so on) Devs are good at working that out, I'm just putting something out there.

[soarra]

you need a cap or if a lone light can keep running around and kill time, but capping does need to be harder or require some defenses

[Aim64C]

My general analysis is that people are ******** and forget that they need to defend a base.

Even when you scout the enemy all the way to your base and continually tell your people that they are going to blow through straight to the base - your assaults like to sit and play peek-a-boo with ghosts until the whole team is standing on the capture point.

Then you see a bunch of "lol capwarrior online" type comments.

Because rushing off to the opposite side of the map as the enemy that is being actively scouted by 2 lights... completely forgetting about that thing known as a "base" - is how we go about shooting things.

Or perhaps I'm confused about what their goals were. Maybe they just wanted to stroll through the river canyon with their buddies.

We need more game modes... but let's face it. These 'tards can't even figure out how to walk in the right direction to shoot things when people are giving them red boxes on the screen and text instructions. Removing the capture element would turn into "All-Around-The-Mulberry-Bush Warrior Online."

[Ahmose]

one logic for the lone light to keep running is they only hurt themselves along with others. they lose out on time in another match for credits and xp. theres no point in running around just to keep the other team from winning. I know there will always be someone that thinks its funny. At the same time, if you opt into these matches, you are wiling to fight to the end and not run around like a Jacka** only to prolong the fight. Overall, there should be no advantage to running around since it wont give you a victory. Also though, if the "arena" is made small enough, there really wouldnt be many places to hide. You could run but really not even escape. A good team could out maneuver the light and trap them or wear them down which in turn could add to the strat of this style of match. So far each match has its own strats, this would add one more type according to what the match provides.

[Corvus Antaka]

no cap - spider runs and hides and you spend 14 minutes chasing him.

cap is there for a reason.

[Ahmose]

Aim64C, on 29 July 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

My general analysis is that people are ******** and forget that they need to defend a base.

Even when you scout the enemy all the way to your base and continually tell your people that they are going to blow through straight to the base - your assaults like to sit and play peek-a-boo with ghosts until the whole team is standing on the capture point.

Then you see a bunch of "lol capwarrior online" type comments.

Because rushing off to the opposite side of the map as the enemy that is being actively scouted by 2 lights... completely forgetting about that thing known as a "base" - is how we go about shooting things.

Or perhaps I'm confused about what their goals were. Maybe they just wanted to stroll through the river canyon with their buddies.

We need more game modes... but let's face it. These 'tards can't even figure out how to walk in the right direction to shoot things when people are giving them red boxes on the screen and text instructions. Removing the capture element would turn into "All-Around-The-Mulberry-Bush Warrior Online."

I agree with you man. Some people arent strat savvy. Im on the fence to a capless match. Like i stated I see the pros and cons. In your statent "We need more game modes" I agree a 100% and mayber an arena match may come to be. More match styles may open up once out of beta. Maybe we gotta wait and see. I'm just voicing a neutral opinion on this topic as it seems to be one thats growing.

Any logical posts on this are appreciated. Either side is welcome.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 29 July 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

no cap - spider runs and hides and you spend 14 minutes chasing him.

cap is there for a reason.

If it's a small arena and not many places to hide with no cap...whats the point in anything other than fighting? It's a good point you make, but if you eliminate any way of ending the match other than fighitng then theres no point in running like there is now. Not criticizing, just debating.

[Roland]

Back in mechwarrior 4, we played team deathmatch, and the game timers then were set for either 30 or 60 minutes.

And you never had a spider run off and hide for a whole match.

Why? Because it would be pointless. Why would he bother?

People are deathly afraid of something which, while theoretically possible, would offer no incentive for folks to actually perform.

Doing so would just slow down the spider's earning, and keep him from dropping in another game.

Even so, it is moot, because there are a million ways to prevent even that without requiring the terrible capping mechanic we have now.

[Corvus Antaka]

Ahmose, on 29 July 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

If it's a small arena and not many places to hide with no cap...whats the point in anything other than fighting? It's a good point you make, but if you eliminate any way of ending the match other than fighitng then theres no point in running like there is now. Not criticizing, just debating.

imho for arena gameplay just 1 cap in the middle should be the point of control...a fairly large cap point with no cover perhaps, this way both mechs have to fight but if 1 hides the other can cap to win.

[Ahmose]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 29 July 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

imho for arena gameplay just 1 cap in the middle should be the point of control...a fairly large cap point with no cover perhaps, this way both mechs have to fight but if 1 hides the other can cap to win.

..and thats a good idea man. It does provide a means to an end and does make a focal point for fighting and a reason to continue fighting.

[Eleshod]

Got into a match once, we pushed out and I in my Raven made my way both towards their base and watching to alert my team, I told them I saw nothing midfield. Meanwhile we got a "Your base is under attack. Message. turns out they had 3 spiders, 2 ECM ravens a Jenner and a cicada whom proceeded to cap our base before i could get even half way back. I'm assuming they all had capture assist.

[FactorlanP]

Also, without cap, you can get the all Assault team... Since they need not fear a cap they can simply move as a Unit and plow over any opposition. Having a cap option helps to prevent super heavy teams... A little...

[Joseph Mallan]

Ahmose, on 29 July 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

If it's a small arena and not many places to hide with no cap...whats the point in anything other than fighting? It's a good point you make, but if you eliminate any way of ending the match other than fighitng then theres no point in running like there is now. Not criticizing, just debating.

That is Solaris 7. There are no Arenas on a battlefield.

[Ahmose]

FactorlanP, on 29 July 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

Also, without cap, you can get the all Assault team... Since they need not fear a cap they can simply move as a Unit and plow over any opposition. Having a cap option helps to prevent super heavy teams... A little...

On that note ive seen skilled lights and even a single light take out an assault. It is a good point you make though. Maybe a matching system similar to other MMOs. so many slots for each class, in this case X - Assault X- Heavy X - medium X - light. some being able to sub for other classes. Yes you have may have to wait a littel longer, but everything comes with a price.

Limits being made to only 3 assaults max for example or 3 lights max. That way no team even becomes overly unbalanced.

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

That is Solaris 7. There are no Arenas on a battlefield.

And thats why its called an arena and not a battlefield. Leave the battle fields as they are, make the areanas another aspect of the game.

[Prezimonto]

If anything the game should be striving for more and varied objectives, not less. Tactical decisions should be part of game play at every point. These mechs are part of extremely expensive war operations and shouldn't exist in a vacuum of "fight over this hill of dirt". They'd be fielded with specific goals in mind.

The devs understand this on some level, and it shows when they add in flavor to maps like Terra Therma about the valuable chemicals being on the planet for harvest.

Now if only you had one team defending a depot of stored chemicals and an offensive team looking to raid and make off with storage boxes, capture the flag style. Hand actuators FTW anyone?

Check out my thread on objective base gameplay in my sig. to give more input if you like the sound of this.

[Jaguar Prime]

Roland, on 29 July 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

Back in mechwarrior 4, we played team deathmatch, and the game timers then were set for either 30 or 60 minutes.

And you never had a spider run off and hide for a whole match.

Why? Because it would be pointless. Why would he bother?

really? I remember a few people doing this on the NBT servers near the end of MW4. Then attempting to win the matches single handedly (Ruffkid). Heck, I have dragged pug matches out before to kill the last few opponents single handedly in a lrm scat or Raven.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ahmose, on 29 July 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

On that note ive seen skilled lights and even a single light take out an assault. It is a good point you make though. Maybe a matching system similar to other MMOs. so many slots for each class, in this case X - Assault X- Heavy X - medium X - light. some being able to sub for other classes. Yes you have may have to wait a littel longer, but everything comes with a price.

Limits being made to only 3 assaults max for example or 3 lights max. That way no team even becomes overly unbalanced.



And thats why its called an arena and not a battlefield. Leave the battle fields as they are, make the areanas another aspect of the game.

On Solaris 7 FIne. Anywhere else forgettaboutit!

[Khobai]

Quote

you need a cap or if a lone light can keep running around and kill time, but capping does need to be harder or require some defenses

No you dont. You just have a time limit. Team with most kills at end of time wins. If its tied the team with most damage divided by tonnage wins. You do not need this cap crap at all. Its a bad game mode and everyone knows it.

Edited by Khobai, 29 July 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[TB Freelancer]

Isn't it ironic that most of the guys who call this a thinking man's shooter are the ones that want to mindlessly death match?

"Der...da base is getting capped! Wut do we does?"

"Geez...I's dunno!? Les truh runnin' as far frum its as possibles and sees ifs theys stops..."

"Day capped our base. whats does we do now?"

"We QQ, hurlz insutlz ands blames duh game!"

[Roland]

Jaguar Prime, on 29 July 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

really? I remember a few people doing this on the NBT servers near the end of MW4. Then attempting to win the matches single handedly (Ruffkid). Heck, I have dragged pug matches out before to kill the last few opponents single handedly in a lrm scat or Raven.

Sure, I used to do that myself... But there isn't anything wrong with that. It isn't just hiding.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 29 July 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

No you dont. You just have a time limit. Team with most kills at end of time wins. If its tied the team with most damage wins. You do not need this cap crap at all. Its a bad game mode and everyone knows it.

As is... Yes an no. Ad a dignitary or ammo supply and suddenly capping becomes important if you get to keep the stash.