60 replies to this topic

[Zaptruder]

Streaks need damage at SRM levels (which should honestly be a bit higher at 2.2 to 2.3).

But they also need to have their lock on mechanism revised; players should need to reacquire lock after firing.

Otherwise, SSRMs will always be in a perpetual disbalance... i.e. they're too easy to use right now... and if they're worth a damn, then they're too good and everyone abuses them, or if they're not, they become ineffectual weapons that have only a niche role on the battlefield.

But if they represent an equivalent difficulty for players to use, just in a different manner (because reacquiring lock isn't always easy against lighter faster mechs, and also slows down the refire rate in general).

At minimum, you're guaranteeing reduced DPS from streaks because of target reacquisition; so players then get to make the call whether they want weapons that deal more DPS (SRMs) without the guarantee of hitting, or weapons that take longer to fire, but don't really waste ammo.

[El Bandito]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 30 July 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

the SSRM2 only wieghs 1.5 tons and is gaurenteed to hit. make them any better, and the SRM sucks again.

On the contrary, people will still use SRMs for higher damage.

SSRMs need to target only 5 locations (upper body parts minus the head) instead of 7.

I also welcome MW4 Streak system as it is viable and involves skill.

Zaptruder, on 30 July 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

Streaks need damage at SRM levels (which should honestly be a bit higher at 2.2 to 2.3). But they also need to have their lock on mechanism revised; players should need to reacquire lock after firing. Otherwise, SSRMs will always be in a perpetual disbalance... i.e. they're too easy to use right now... and if they're worth a damn, then they're too good and everyone abuses them, or if they're not, they become ineffectual weapons that have only a niche role on the battlefield. But if they represent an equivalent difficulty for players to use, just in a different manner (because reacquiring lock isn't always easy against lighter faster mechs, and also slows down the refire rate in general). At minimum, you're guaranteeing reduced DPS from streaks because of target reacquisition; so players then get to make the call whether they want weapons that deal more DPS (SRMs) without the guarantee of hitting, or weapons that take longer to fire, but don't really waste ammo.

Reacquiring lock after each firing will make SSRMs even worse than what we have now as reacquiring adds significant time to weapon cooldown. Have fun trying to reacquire locks when there is enemy ECM around.

[Jungle Rhino]

SSRM2s weigh 50% more than SRM2s. Therefore they should only be 50% better than SRM2s.

People got used to Streaks being way too good. Now they are what they ought to be - a backup weapon that is only really effective agianst very light mechs that are hard to hit.

Of course their damage should go match the regular SRM so they do need a small boost.

But also you need to look ahead to clan techand SSRM6s - stuff 3-4 of them in a mech and what do you think is going to happen if they worked like they used to?

[Thorqemada]

Streaks were Weapons that helped (along with LRM) to mitigate the Hit Detection issues and already balanced very well in the pre-nerf Version.
You would do way better with every other Weapon as soon Hit Detection would work well.
Now we have a pathetic Weapon with SSRM.

[Lupin]

Oh dear does this mean that pilots using SSRM will have to learn some skill with there weapons.
<sarcasm off>

I have been using lights most of the time and use SSRM mainly to soften up target.
But somewhat of a mute point given hit detection so off that they do any damage anyway.

[AlexEss]

Ok i have to ask (sorry if i missed someone else pointing this out) but how often do you use SRM2´s and seeing that we will see streak 4 and 6 in a not to distant future do you really want the damage on those things buffed. The Streaks 2 are in line with SRM 2 and sit in a good place for the future

Yes the 2´s are weak and are really only good to scre away fleas and APC´s (and we don´t have any APC´s in this game.) but that will change. Why not prepare for that now so we might avoid streakaggedon 4 and 6?

[Kaldor]

jakucha, on 29 July 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

They could use a slight buff in terms of targeting percentage or damage, but they're just streak 2s. Buff them too much and streak 6s will be broken when they appear.

Agreed

They are not a difficult weapon to use. Therefor damage needs to be lower. When level of skill required for use increases, increase the damage. They hit random mech sections in tabletop as well. In MWO SRMs are manually aimed, requiring some level of skill, instead of missile hits being decided by a roll of the virtual dice.

Besides, they are an SSRM2. Do you use SRM2s? You dont hear people b_tching about how bad they are. When SSRM4s and 6s are available, SSRM2s will get shoved into the same closet as the rest of the gear in this game gets shoved into.

This subject needs to die in a fire. I find that people that b_tch about SSRMs are often the ones that use them the most, in other words, those that have the least skill....

[Zaptruder]

El Bandito, on 30 July 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Reacquiring lock after each firing will make SSRMs even worse than what we have now as reacquiring adds significant time to weapon cooldown. Have fun trying to reacquire locks when there is enemy ECM around.

Enemy ECM kills lock whether or not you have to reacquire. Also, I'm proposing a damage buff with a lock reacqusition mechanic; not nerfing it doubly.

[Master Q]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 30 July 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

the SSRM2 only wieghs 1.5 tons and is gaurenteed to hit. make them any better, and the SRM sucks again.

The SSRM2 weighs 1.5 tons and is guaranteed to hit... provided you are at really close range and have held the reticle over an enemy for several seconds, exposing your torso to counter-fire.

I took my brand new Sarah's Jenner for a spin in its base config last night. Tried it out. The Streaks were "nice" but felt kind of pointless, they did pretty much nothing against the armor of anything Heavy or higher and against other lights, it was next to impossible to get lock reliably or keep it even with the Beagle that comes stock, and the damage went anywhere but where it was needed.

No, I agree with others. The Streak SRM2 is currently a bit underpowered.

[Middcore]

Their damage needs to be bumped to 2.0 the same as regular SRMs. Right now they are perhaps very moderately useful on lights and for fending off lights. But if you fire them at anything bigger than, say, a Cicada, it will laugh at you. Load up three Streak 2's and with minimum one ton of ammo you've used 5.5 tons. Now fire them all and maybe do 1.5 damage each to six different parts of the enemy 'mech? No, thank you. Not a good return on investment.

[Lootee]

They could use a damage increase to 2.0 but nothing else. They're supposed to be slightly better than a SRM2.

The people mounting 3 or 6 of them and using them to destroy heavy and assault mechs were pretty much exploiters. Think about it, 6 SSRM2 is equal in firepower to 2 SRM6. That's the same as a 30 ton Javelin, a little more than a stock Commando, or just the top half of a HBK-4SP.

OF COURSE it's going to take forever to kill anything with armor, because your armament is WEAK. The only reason they worked quickly before was the CT only seeking exploit. Now it's been fixed.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 30 July 2013 - 06:03 AM.

[Roadbuster]

Not sure if someone else noticed this, but I experienced something fishy when testing some loadouts in the Testing Grounds this weekend.
I equipped 3 SSRM2 and fired at a Commando from the front till he was dead.
After a few shots I noticed that not a single missile hit the LT or RT. The LT only took damage after the LA was gone.
Missiles seem to only hit LA, RA, CT, LL, RL.
Maybe someone can confirm?

[El Bandito]

Kaldor, on 30 July 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

Agreed They are not a difficult weapon to use. Therefor damage needs to be lower. When level of skill required for use increases, increase the damage. They hit random mech sections in tabletop as well. In MWO SRMs are manually aimed, requiring some level of skill, instead of missile hits being decided by a roll of the virtual dice. Besides, they are an SSRM2. Do you use SRM2s? You dont hear people b_tching about how bad they are. When SSRM4s and 6s are available, SSRM2s will get shoved into the same closet as the rest of the gear in this game gets shoved into. This subject needs to die in a fire. I find that people that b_tch about SSRMs are often the ones that use them the most, in other words, those that have the least skill....

I still use SRM2 in my Victor. I find it more useful than current garbage SSRM2.

Can't wait to laugh at all the SSRM6 fearmongers when SSRM6 turns out to be an inferior weapon--as long as current damage and tracking % stays.

Edited by El Bandito, 30 July 2013 - 07:37 AM.

[StalaggtIKE]

Skinny Pete, on 29 July 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

I'm not really adding to the conversation --


... carry on.

[Jman5]

They are an SSRM 2 for god sakes. They should have always been a support weapon that supplements your damage and yet because of various bugs they were the primary damage dealer for many builds. Now that they have been adjusted realistically, people can see them for what they really are: 2 dopey missiles!

Frankly, I see this as an amazing opportunity for lights. They can now explore new builds and variants without feeling like they are putting themselves at a disadvantage against other lights. Rejoice: The shackles have been removed!

[Kaldor]

El Bandito, on 30 July 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

I still use SRM2 in my Victor. I find it more useful than current garbage SSRM2.

Can't wait to laugh at all the SSRM6 fearmongers when SSRM6 turns out to be an inferior weapon--as long as current damage and tracking % stays.

I actually agree with you on the SRM vs SSRM argument, except I would rather run a 4 unless youre that tight on tonnage.

SSRM4s and 6s will change the game. I would prefer they buff them at the point they arrive in game, rather than having them OP, and then getting nerfed. Myself, I wont use them, Ill stick with CSRMs.

[stjobe]

As a light pilot, I'm quite happy with this new Streak mechanic; seeing as I mainly pilot non-Streak 'mechs, I can't even begin to tell you how unfair the CT-coring old mechanic was, especially in a light-on-light fight between a Streak-using 'mech and one that didn't use Streaks. And we all remember the ECM+Streak Raven 3Ls, don't we?

It's a SSRM-2. It fires 2 SRMs. It was WRONG that it was used as the main damage dealer just because it auto-hit and auto-hit the CT to boot. Now it's back where it should be, the second weakest missile weapon in the game.

[Corvus Antaka]

Master Q, on 30 July 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

I took my brand new Sarah's Jenner for a spin in its base config last night. Tried it out. The Streaks were "nice" but felt kind of pointless, they did pretty much nothing against the armor of anything Heavy or higher and against other lights.

No, I agree with others. The Streak SRM2 is currently a bit underpowered.

Key points here. Would you take 2 SRM2 for anything heavier than a light/medium fight? unlikely. Same with the SSRM2 - except that you have the benefit of a lock on. vs lights the SSRM2 remains very useful, 3 SSRM are a great light deterent even with the nurf.

The SSRM4 and the SSRM6 will be much more useful against med/hvy/assault, and will hit significantly harder than the ssrm - which is like the small laser of missiles.

given that you have solid odds to leg or hit a torso with the SSRM2, in a light fight they remain very useful to cause cockpit shake and peel armour, but you can no longer rely on them to core your enemies every time.

the SSRM2 will however still hit the CT, and in fact the randomness can make it dumb luck, sometimes you hit CT, sometimes you get a leg. exploiting what is weakest is the name of the game now, not just "shoot the ct"

all that said, in theory one might think that adding in "if hovering over CT SSRM will guide to this point" is a good thing, but then aagain we will see the SSRM2 become just another CT coring gun and all cry because the CT goes down too fast again.

I myself have switched my commando 2D from 3 SSRM2 to 2 SRM4 &1 SRM2, and in both cases I find the mech viable - once as a light hunter/killer, with SRMS it struggles vs lights, but it loves tearing up bigger, slower mechs.

[Alistair Winter]

Nauht, on 29 July 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

Don't rely on autolock streaks. Use your own skill, pick up some hard hitting SRMs and wreck it.
Lights just became more dangerous with the SRM buff.

I liked this post so much that I unliked it, only to like it again.

[Mhyth]

I've seen more than a few streak cats in matches lately - they were doing just fine. SSRMs are far from useless, they've just been returned to an reasonable effectiveness level.

Quote

[color=#959595]SSRM2s weigh 50% more than SRM2s. Therefore they should only be 50% better than SRM2s[/color]

Unless streaks tracking guidance and ability to maneuver is provided by magical fairies that 50% weight difference is rather spoken for.

I agree with other the damage is appropriate and allows for a better path to implement SSRM4s and 6s. SRMs have gained back the ability to be an effective weapon - an SRM2 is only a small amount of additional damage and not a primary weapon - a single SSRM2 should perform similarly. SSRM2s being self guided rockets able to follow and impact around corners, it's entirely appropriate that two to three SSRM2s are comparable in damage effectiveness to an SRM4 which has no guidance.

I also agree folks got way to used to the broken balance - SSRMs are still a hugely effective weapon as an additional damage source. No changes are needed.