40 replies to this topic

[GODzillaGSPB]

Khobai, on 29 July 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

tonnage limits will force mediums into games but it wont make them equal to heavies or assaults. theyll still be inferior and thats wrong. all weight classes should be equally effective in their own way.

Definitely not. A medium can outmaneuver and outrun an assault, but it should not be "equal". How would that even work?

And "in their own way"? More incentives to play the lone wolf, get singled out and shot to pieces? Oh come on. In a team a medium should definitely shine, by working tasks the assault can't (like defense against lights, or quick flanking maneuvers as well as getting a better angle by climbing steeps the assault can't etcetera), thus making it a more versatile and in the end better team.

[Tor6]

How are mediums supposed to really shine in a team when many heavies can do everything they can and more? Heavies are almost or just as fast, better armed, better armored, and often only a tiny bit bigger...

[SirLANsalot]

Try running 4 Hunchbacks.

Did this on a random pug group with 2 HBK 4SP and 2 HBK 4G (twin founders). We all were running about the same speed (85-90)kph so we could keep up with one another just fine. We were WIPING the floor of the other team, even if we lost the other half of the team, which provided very good distractions. We lost only 2 matches out of the 10 or so we ran (lost count), We all were getting from 200-600 damage a game depending (I got 600 a few times in my 4G).


So no its not assault warrior online, its Hunchback online, just know how to pilot and you will see.



Also as a note. Run the Hunchback 4G, its a great mech to learn on as it teaches you how to actually pilot. Its heat is low, and overheating is difficult even on nutral maps yet damage is very high as it will teach you ballistics. I teach all noobs to the game on this mech, as its a very easy mech to use, thus allowing you to teach them the basics before getting them into the bigger guns/mechs. @anyone thinking the 4G sucks.....ya, its not the mech, its you.

[Tor6]

SirLANsalot, on 29 July 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Try running 4 Hunchbacks.

Did this on a random pug group with 2 HBK 4SP and 2 HBK 4G (twin founders). We all were running about the same speed (85-90)kph so we could keep up with one another just fine. We were WIPING the floor of the other team, even if we lost the other half of the team, which provided very good distractions. We lost only 2 matches out of the 10 or so we ran (lost count), We all were getting from 200-600 damage a game depending (I got 600 a few times in my 4G).


So no its not assault warrior online, its Hunchback online, just know how to pilot and you will see.



Also as a note. Run the Hunchback 4G, its a great mech to learn on as it teaches you how to actually pilot. Its heat is low, and overheating is difficult even on nutral maps yet damage is very high as it will teach you ballistics. I teach all noobs to the game on this mech, as its a very easy mech to use, thus allowing you to teach them the basics before getting them into the bigger guns/mechs. @anyone thinking the 4G sucks.....ya, its not the mech, its you.

You ran a 4 man team and won a majority of your games. This is not really a valid comparison when talking about mech balance because ANY four man group playing together should see considerable success regardless of what mechs they are running (within reason).

[Galenit]

Tennex, on 29 July 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

reduce agility; turn rate twist rate

for heavies and assaults

And speed.

Lets say it in other words, remove the mech-trees with the 2x basicskill mumpitz and make a real mechtree.

[Lefteye Falconeer]

Tonnage limits will bring diversity in teams. Mediums are perfectly fine if you know what to do with it. Also, tonnage limits will force lights and mediums in the other team too, so even if you are really clueless at how to tackle bigger 'mechs (not one on one, that's not your job), you will have stuff that you feel more comfortable fighting anyway.

So, while the game AT THE MOMENT is "Assault Online", and it can be very depressing, with a little patience tonnage limits will solve the issue for good.

Mediums are perfectly fine in a game that has something else than just 65+ tonners. And even there, you can be very efficient. None of my mediums, about six of them, has a K/D lower than 1.50 even in the actual meta, and some are up there over 2.0, and I am far from being an amazing player.

[Ph30nix]

funny thing is the assaults are arguably LESS survivable then the lights and mediums in some cases, at least how most people pilot them.....

i swear the next game i drop where half my teams assault mechs just lumber face first into the enemy team and die in about 5 seconds of focused fire just to rage about ppc boats, convergence or whatever the whine of the day is im going to punch my monitor.

lights and mediums you learn to NOT get hit as best you can unlike most assault pilots.

[ferranis]

Elo. When people know how to use cover and everything else + play assault. Then things get interesting.

In a heavy i am already sick of getting shot one time and ending with an orange center. Medium? Never.

Edited by ferranis, 30 July 2013 - 06:14 AM.

[NRP]

Perhaps most people play Assaults because they like playing the biggest mechs? Who the hell are you to force people to play "your" way rather than theirs?

In my experience, the best matches are those with mostly Assaults and Heavies. The worst matches are those full of Lights and Mediums, particularly Spiders, Blackjacks, and Cent As running around blasting SRM6s, all of which are essentially unkillable.

Edited by NRP, 30 July 2013 - 06:31 AM.

[Ph30nix]

NRP, on 30 July 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Perhaps most people play Assaults because they like playing the biggest mechs? Who the hell are you to force people to play "your" way rather than theirs?

I swear, this forum community is so full of *****.

well there has always been reasons in Mechwarrior and battle tech why people couldnt just field nothing but assault mechs all the time.

Frankly it removes a large portion of the strategy and info warfare that Mech warrior has always been about and what MWO is trying to be about.

i don't think you would really like what they want MWO to actually be if they ever get it to that point....

but people can feel free to continue to pilot 6-8 assaults each match and ill continue to just base cap on them when they choose to do so.

[Ngamok]

Zolaz, on 29 July 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

When is PGI going to do something about the majority of players playing Assaults? Their heat "solution" isnt working. You still get hit by the PPC boats. There is no reason to play a light or medium with the present meta.

I have been playing an HBK-4J lately and I have zero trouble most of the time getting 200-300 damage a game with the rare chance to do 500+. 4xML and 2xLRM10s. Step up your game.

[Praehotec8]

Just remember....Steiners need scout lances also.

[Steel Claws]

Zolaz, on 29 July 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

When is PGI going to do something about the majority of players playing Assaults? Their heat "solution" isnt working. You still get hit by the PPC boats. There is no reason to play a light or medium with the present meta.

How much have you actually played lately? For the last several days it's been light mechs online. I see a good balance of weight classes when I've been playing - including those mediums that everyone who tries to drive them like an assault think suck.

[Ngamok]

I am, on 29 July 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

Most people bring asslt mechs because dying fast isn't very fun, and they tend to hold up longer.

Because an Atlas or Highlander that does sub 100 damage is a rarity. Oh wait, it isn't. You are correct mostly though. Also, people are infatuated with the bigger mechs as well.

Let's pretend we had two options, the Trebuchet or the Catapult. Both have energy and missile options with one option to carry ballistics. Which would be popular. Let's do the same with a BlackJack and JagerMech. How about a Quickdraw and a Stalker.

Steel Claws, on 30 July 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

How much have you actually played lately? For the last several days it's been light mechs online. I see a good balance of weight classes when I've been playing - including those mediums that everyone who tries to drive them like an assault think suck.

People are getting ready for CapWarrior Online when the bonuses get added. Yesterday we ran into teams of 3 Jenners and 1 Cicada or 3 Spiders and 1 Cicada.

Tor6, on 29 July 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

How are mediums supposed to really shine in a team when many heavies can do everything they can and more? Heavies are almost or just as fast, better armed, better armored, and often only a tiny bit bigger...

By almost as fast you mean Dragons and Quickdraws? While you can get up to 80 KPH on a JM6, you sacrifice armor and such to do it. Every Medium has the potential to do 92KPH or more.

Galenit, on 30 July 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

And speed.

Lets say it in other words, remove the mech-trees with the 2x basicskill mumpitz and make a real mechtree.

TBH, the Heavies and Assaults shouldn't have speed tweak in their Elite trees. This will almost solve everything with Heavies being fast.

[Wolfways]

Assault online? I wish i could get into your matches then.

Most of my matches seem to be:
2-5 lights
0-3 mediums
1-3 heavies
1-4 assaults

I know mediums have a problem, but lights? There's never a shortage of them. I'm so sick of the sight of them that i don't play my Raven anymore.

[New Day]

Tor6, on 29 July 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Heavies are the new mediums.

And if you pilot a heavy chances our the MM will match you up with an Atlas (it goes up and down a single weightclass)

Ngamok, on 30 July 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

Because an Atlas or Highlander that does sub 100 damage is a rarity. Oh wait, it isn't. You are correct mostly though. Also, people are infatuated with the bigger mechs as well.

Let's pretend we had two options, the Trebuchet or the Catapult. Both have energy and missile options with one option to carry ballistics. Which would be popular. Let's do the same with a BlackJack and JagerMech. How about a Quickdraw and a Stalker.



People are getting ready for CapWarrior Online when the bonuses get added. Yesterday we ran into teams of 3 Jenners and 1 Cicada or 3 Spiders and 1 Cicada.



By almost as fast you mean Dragons and Quickdraws? While you can get up to 80 KPH on a JM6, you sacrifice armor and such to do it. Every Medium has the potential to do 92KPH or more.



TBH, the Heavies and Assaults shouldn't have speed tweak in their Elite trees. This will almost solve everything with Heavies being fast.

That's 10%. Not that much.

[Praehotec8]

Ngamok, on 30 July 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Also, people are infatuated with the bigger mechs as well.

People are getting ready for CapWarrior Online when the bonuses get added. Yesterday we ran into teams of 3 Jenners and 1 Cicada or 3 Spiders and 1 Cicada.

1.) Well, size DOES matter, contrary to popular sayings...or so I hear.

2.) Good...giving more incentives and reasons to run lights and fast mediums is a good thing for diversity. No way a medium should be able to take down an assault 1v1 (with a few exceptions), but...giving these mechs reasons to exist and be useful adds layers to the game. Do I want to be an assault and kill anything I can catch, but be limited in my ability to respond to lights, or do I want to pilot a fast medium to hunt stop base caps, etc.??

[Volomon]

It's actually a very simple thing I think.


The reason for everyone going heavy/assault other than squad based light harassment groups. Is why bother getting anything weaker period?

The way to solve this is the same way that the old board game used to play out.

They need to add a dropship mode, you're given a set amount of points.

I would make lights and mediums cost one point, a heavy cost 2, and a assault worth 3. At the beginning of the game you are given 5 points to work with. One assault and one heavy, or freaking a lot of mediums/lights. You would see a lot more combination and more frequently the way it was meant to be played more lights and mediums. Losing that assault and only having one additional life would make you think twice about getting one.

The game is over once an objective has been reached (base capture aka the drop zone), or the enemy runs out of reinforcements. Simple solution and I think a more fun mode because it would be a lot longer match, more strategy involved ect,.

Of course you would have to add a spawn timer say spawn once every minute or so, (maybe more like 2 minutes would have to be beta tested) and if an enemy is sitting on the base no one can spawn.

Personally I know this would work because I would stop using assaults all together for almost all of those matches I would instead mix in mostly mediums with maybe one light and a heavy. On rare occasion I would move to an assault but they would become far more rare in this mode, I would imagine there would be entire games without seeing a single one.

Sorry I never stop thinking so I keep editing, an alternative to the point system of course would be a tonage system you are allow to work with X tons per match (what that number is I wouldn't know without doing a beta of some kind). You would see far more usage of lesser popular and slightly "weaker" mechs back in play.

Edited by Volomon, 30 July 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Jman5, on 29 July 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

The real problem is how do you solve the assault issue if everyone likes bringing assaults? A lot of us want other people to run fewer assaults, but aren't willing to do the same.

Despite what some people claim, matchmaker does try to balance weight. If you bring 4 mediums, you are going to skew the weight of the enemy team down. Conversely, if you and all your friends are bringing heavies and assaults, you're going to be treated to the same thing. It's not 100%, but it tends to be pretty close most of the time.

So until PGI adds something like hard weight limits, I suggest making sure you and your friends run lighter.

Its easy. When you queue up for a game, you add the option to queue up 4 mechs (one of each weight class). Doing that puts more mechs into the queue which allows for more game options to be rendered. Adding a weight limitation prevents the game search from being too long. IF you only want to play one weight class, then you are taking the responsability upon yourself of knowing that your wait might be longer then if you queued up additional mechs.

[NRP]

If they implement weight matching, I hope it results in teams comprised of similar mechs (e.g. all light vs light, medium vs medium, etc). That way, everyone can play the mechs they want, and no one has to face the mechs they hate.