376 replies to this topic

[Toadkillerdog]

any chance we can go back to the old creative director update rather than these "now that it's in game, this is what you got" ones? I mean, I like most of the patch (except the LL part, but I see you're already working on compensation for that), but we still have no idea what next month's mech, what the big features, or anything like that are.
It's a little useful to know if there's the Flea or the Orion coming up, lets all of us know if we should save the cbills or not.

[Fishhawk]

xZaOx, on 30 July 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

I love people complaining about PPC/Gauss combo(which has been around since intro of the Cataphract).I know its HARD to comprehend, but you need rock, paper, scissors. There are Snipers in Team Fortress 2 and any other game. Instead of whining and yelling to nerf them, use tactic, brawling, and speed to rush them and kill them.

Same thing for AC20 boats, and Splat cats. Instead PGI nerfs everything, so its just paper. Slow death by a million paper cuts. Yes that sounds really fun.

And I love how people complain that because you can't boat any and every weapon in the game means that the game is unplayable.

Should they just have the mechs each use one weapon type? That would play into your Rock/Paper/Scissors. Awesomes use Energy only weapons, Stalkers use Missile weapons only, etc... ?

[ToxicValor]

Toadkillerdog, on 30 July 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

any chance we can go back to the old creative director update rather than these "now that it's in game, this is what you got" ones? I mean, I like most of the patch (except the LL part, but I see you're already working on compensation for that), but we still have no idea what next month's mech, what the big features, or anything like that are.
It's a little useful to know if there's the Flea or the Orion coming up, lets all of us know if we should save the cbills or not.

Actually, the only thing I got slightly bummed about this patch was the 12v12.
Otherwise it is pretty good.
I am also eagerly awating for Orion.. a lot. I hope August is the month.

[Zatharus Mathew deTora]

Deathlike, on 30 July 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Please use the MWO Repair Tool. It makes miracles occasionally and is worth keeping around for patch day.

I've got the same problem; Repair Tool didn't help.

Edited by Zatharus Mathew deTora, 30 July 2013 - 07:03 PM.

[Nauht]

MisterFiveSeven, on 30 July 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

For all of the people who accuse people that make constructive criticism of being whiners or smartasses:

I have played BT for more than 15 years. I have played every iteration of MW game that has existed since Windows 3.1. MWO has done things no other MW title has done. I still enjoy almost every drop.

The balance decisions worry me because I still want to have stompy robots in a year from now, but all signs point to a dying player base. That is the only reason I makes comments in forums. You can call me a whiny ***** all you want, but I like the game; I just wish it could reach its potential...

It's not going to as long as we have to explain game mechanics with juvenile chalkboard graphics. Is this idea that hard to understand?

What signs? You mean the official word of 1.1 million accounts and growing?

Oh you mean those "other" signs that the game is "dying". I need an Austin Powers meme.

[Skyfaller]

xZaOx, on 30 July 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

I love people complaining about PPC/Gauss combo(which has been around since intro of the Cataphract).I know its HARD to comprehend, but you need rock, paper, scissors. There are Snipers in Team Fortress 2 and any other game. Instead of whining and yelling to nerf them, use tactic, brawling, and speed to rush them and kill them.

You do realize when the Phract came into play that combo was not possible because the PPC and Gauss had VERY different projectile speeds and they both had a dissimilar delay to fire after the click?

Rock paper scissors works when you have all three. In this game you only have Rock (alpha pinpoint long range high damage weapons..aka PPC+Gauss) and scissors (short range very high damage pinpoint+narrow area impact front-loaded weapons..aka SRM6+AC20).

Paper is not present. Paper is the sustained fire and long range support weapons. LRM's, lasers... as they are in the game they are simply not up to par to compete in any way or form with the performance of rock and scissors.

The really sad (you could call it pathetic even) is that the devs have been told EXACTLY what the problem is for a very long time. They have simply chosen to IGNORE it and push on nerfing weapon stats rather than tackling the two reasons why this game is FUBAR: Pinpoint convergence and Engine 2.0 DHS.

Now they pull this brilliant a$sshattery of the heat scale penalty...which they were told from the moment they announced what they were PLANNING to do with it..that it would NOT WORK. Lo and behold it has come to pass.

There is a difference between hearing and listening. The devs are merely hearing.

If you honestly think this game will have any long term..heck, just medium term (~2 years) lifetime as it is you're deluding yourself.

[Nauht]

Look into my crystal ball....

[MisterFiveSeven]

Nauht, on 30 July 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

What signs? You mean the official word of 1.1 million accounts and growing?

Oh you mean those "other" signs that the game is "dying". I need an Austin Powers meme.

A player that has been here since closed beta has played thousands of drops.

In terms of body count, he matters far more than the player that just picked up the game. He fill servers far more often than the guy that registered last week who has 15 drops.

It's simple math, and its worrisome. If you can convince me that there is enough fresh meat to replace the old meat that has made up a significant portion of the mechs dropped since closed beta, I'll feel better.

[Nauht]

What maths? What figures?

I've been here since cb too and still getting games.

What body count has he got? What have you got?

[Fishhawk]

Skyfaller, on 30 July 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

Now they pull this brilliant a$sshattery of the heat scale penalty...which they were told from the moment they announced what they were PLANNING to do with it..that it would NOT WORK. Lo and behold it has come to pass.

Granted, I'm not an competitive player, but how has the heat scale penalty not worked? I just played a game and I moved around and shot other mechs and capped points just like I did last month. What is it that I should have been able to do that now that I cannot do?

It's definitely not the most elegant way of handling things, but I'm still trying to figure out how all of a sudden now the game is unplayable because of the heat scaling. (Pointing out that it is, in fact, not playable by some folks at the moment.)

[Graufalk]

JohanssenJr, on 30 July 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

So basically, we lost the 40 point alpha STK and 45 point alpha 732 for the far faster and more heat efficient, 35 point CTF-3Dand Firebrands. Or the double Goose Jag, Ilyas, and Gats.


That's what we all wanted, right? To go to the next alpha build? The one's carrying Goose Rifles?


Bravoooooooo.......

Until Paul decides we can only fire 1 Gauss Rifle at a time.

[Skyfaller]

Fishhawk, on 30 July 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Granted, I'm not an competitive player, but how has the heat scale penalty not worked? I just played a game and I moved around and shot other mechs and capped points just like I did last month. What is it that I should have been able to do that now that I cannot do?

It's definitely not the most elegant way of handling things, but I'm still trying to figure out how all of a sudden now the game is unplayable because of the heat scaling. (Pointing out that it is, in fact, not playable by some folks at the moment.)

It has not worked for its intended purpose. Pinpoint high damage alpha damage is still in the game in may combinations. All they did was put an inordinate amount of work hours into a haphazard solution akin to putting a band aid in a gaping chest wound.

All this heat penalty garbage has done is made it harder for non-poinpoint high alpha damage weapons to compete. If you look at the actual numbers of it you will notice that by allowing 2 PPCs to fire with no heat penalty and then 6 medium lasers with no penalty... tell me which is more effective in terms of damage application and heat? 20 dmg and 18 (22 in ER) heat PPC hitting one armor location or 30 damage 24 heat with half/one third(ER) the range of the PPC and it does not dump damage instantly in one location?

The problem is not heat. Its convergence. Always has been.

This game is built mostly around TT concepts and rules. TT only had pinpoint damage at a very high cost in equipment and had penalties of its own to do so. Normal combat was random hit location. In MWO real time that can be achieved by simply removing the convergence or adapting it so you can only make them if you have the target locked and aimed long enough for the convergence to narrow down ... just like it takes an LRM time to lock. If target moves past a threshold range (~50m of 'converged' range) the convergence lock timer resets.

There are many other solutions to convergence too. Thing is, they're hearing not listening.

[Pycckuu]

I really don't understand why ghost heat is still being pushed. The benefits of removing PPC boats have been marginal. On top of that it's going to be nearly impossible to explain this system to players IN GAME without having them read your PhD thesis on boating. And of course, its just another parameter that will need to be balanced on top of damage, heat generated, cycle time, tonnage, critical slots required and ammo per ton. People in this very thread are already debating if the maximum number of weapons that should be allowed before the heat penalty kicks in.

I feel bad for the guy who programmed this ghost heat system. He spent tons of time working on it, and it just does not fit within the framework of MWO no matter how you cut it. Please guy, just roll it back. Tell Paul you were kidding. You can make this game fun again!

[MisterFiveSeven]

Nauht, on 30 July 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

What signs? You mean the official word of 1.1 million accounts and growing?

Oh you mean those "other" signs that the game is "dying". I need an Austin Powers meme.

It is merely perception, because your numbers don't really have any more bearing on the health of the game than my perceptions (from friends that no longer play).

I hope you are right and I am wrong.

Edited by MisterFiveSeven, 30 July 2013 - 07:33 PM.

[Windies]

The problem is with the way PGI is doing the balancing right now. They are just shifting the optimal meta build from one build to another without actually creating or introducing more viable builds through balancing or fixing the core issue's that cause there to actually be a clear cut optimal build. Also the current system actually nerfs weapons and systems that frankly are already pretty crap to begin with which just makes the optimal build shine that much brighter.

It also creates a very large hurdle that newer players have to both seek out information on to understand it and then have a hard time understanding with the convoluted heat penalties especially when mixing weapons of the same type that have differing heat penalties.

All of this and it still doesn't solve the problem of a lack of build diversity or stale gameplay.

[FupDup]

Nauht, on 30 July 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

What signs? You mean the official word of 1.1 million accounts and growing?

1.1 million accounts =/= 1.1 million active players. Misleading statistic is misleading.

Edited by FupDup, 30 July 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[Windies]

FupDup, on 30 July 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

1.1 million accounts =/= 1.1 million active players.

I've made a ton of accounts just for testing out mech builds and using the cadet bonus to do it.

Even if you assumed a ratio of 2:1 players per account, that's only 500,000 players, then you have to factor in active players since PGI can only count to 1 as far as "active" accounts are concerned.

[Unbound Inferno]

Nauht, on 30 July 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

What signs? You mean the official word of 1.1 million accounts and growing?

Oh you mean those "other" signs that the game is "dying". I need an Austin Powers meme.

Um... number of accounts don't equal number of players. Ever make an extra account for 4 mechbays cause you don't want to pay?

I would dare PGI to tell us how many matches, what the average number of active people is per day. That is the guage for the number of players. Not accounts.

[REV005]

With regards to Artillery, I think that getting rid of the smoke will make it a more viable weapon.
1. It's the year 3050 and they don't need to pop smoke to mark a target
2. It's a mobile combat game. If you decide to stand still, then I should be able to exploit that by bombing your ***...without notice (smoke).
3. Especially for 40k.
4. It would add another dynamic to the bland ***, pop tart, metagame. Indirect-fire options are game changers in combat.
5. I love this game and want to use all my options on the battlefield, especially since you took the time to include them.
6. Everyone agrees that the available indirect-fire options are weak, but it's for good reason. So cut the smoke please.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

[Deathlike]

Mederlock, on 30 July 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

^2

This game literally went from bad to worse. It's like the balance team hates any weapon not long range high alpha. So, they were able to add in a whole new system to make mechs die even faster yet they couldn't nerf PPC's. And they nerf brawling weapons even more just when we thought they had a chance at being semi useful. The community has tried to help constructively, and have even come together to put forward a united message about what's going so horribly wrong, yet it's quite obvious that Paul and crew don't give a rat's *** about the constructive feedback that they receive from players.

Believe it or not, there are "ninja community testers" that are under NDA, who provide feedback to PGI. The issue is that w/o knowing who they are, I get the feeling that the feedback provided is not balanced with the higher level play... or worse.. under the false impression that these changes are working as intended™.

I honestly wonder if the people participating in this feedback actually PLAY at the highest levels to give feedback or you wonder whether they are the "noise" PGI has been talking about. It's not a good signal either way.