16 replies to this topic

[Ewigan]

Hi guys, bear with me a bit here, cause i really need your advice.
I am a lights pilot normally and do love running my Commandos. But with the new stalker announcement i knew that i would have to get one and well... i got my 5S yesterday, made a build, started playing.... and OH BOY DO I SUCK!

Lemme explain the Build and my reasoning behind it:

I wanted to fullfill the role of the stalker as a Indirekt and/or Direct fire support mech.
From my Commandos i learned how to work with Lock on Rockets and Lasers, so that were my choices.

It runs with
300 Standard Engine
DHS
ENDO
433 Standard Armor

2 Large Lasers - one left arm, one right arm
2 Medium Lasers - one left torso, one right torso
4 LRM 10 - one left torso, one right torso, one left arm, one right arm
2 AMS - one left torso, one right torso
2 CASE - one left torso, one right torso

2 tons of AMS ammo - one ton on the left torso, one ton on the right torso
4 tons of LRM ammo - 2 tons on the left torso, 2 tons on the right torso

It's a symmetrical build, yep.
The 2 AMS are mostly "because i can", the 2 CASE do have the reason that i read that it's side torsos get blown up quickly... and i noticed that to be true, so i split up the ammo for my main weapons (the LRM) and had to use 2 CASE.

So as i said so far i suck with it, and i can't even really tell why. I mean i do not suck BADLY, but only 200+ damage for an assault Battlemech that relies on LRM who tend to spread their damage all over the place is kinda low.

What i plan on doing:

- drop one LRM10 (frees up 5 tons)
- outfit the three remaining LRM10 with Artemis (3 of 5 tons used)
- add a TAG (4 of 5 tons used)
- add a 3rd Medium Laser (what will hurt my heat management) OR add a second TAG (for more badassery. Just think of it, running around with 2 constand laser beams from both of your arms ) OR adding another ton of ammo OR another DHS.


What are your thoughts, or similar builds that do work?

Oh and just to add that: i DO have to L2P, cause lights != assaults

[MagicHamsta]

Let me guess.
You only be doing ~200 damage because you be overheating all over the place.

1) Remove endo, add more sinks.
2) You has to decide what type of assault you want to be. LRM boat, laserboat, or mayhaps even SRM boat. Attempting to run with multiple paths at once leads to the overheating (lack of sinks) & tonnage (too many big weapons) issues.
3) Remove C.A.S.E unless you literally be storing ammo in the side torsos otherwise you will receive no benefits.
4) AMS odd preference, but me am not one to judge. Me myself prefer to use LRM immunity (Environment) rather than AMS.

Edited by MagicHamsta, 19 December 2012 - 11:41 PM.

[Ewigan]

Hi Hamsta, actually i am not overheating at all. i know how to manage my heat, one of my commies is running with 3 med pulse.... compared to that my stalker is cold

lemme get to your points:

1) why? i have TONS of crit space, but if i remove endo i loose how many tons of weight? like around 4-5?
2) Boating actually sucks, so i would refrain from using that word in that case. but as you may have read from my 4 LRM10 i tend to be "LRM-boating" with an added punch of lasers.
3) didn't you read my post? both of my side torsos do store LRM ammo
4) yeah, i do the same with my commandos. but as my stalker so far ( no speed tweak yet) goes 57kp/h i'd rather keep my AMS.

[Ewigan]

no one?

[MadPanda]

I run my 5M (which conveniently has a energy point in CT for the TAG) with a similar build.

2x LRM20
4x ML
2x SRM6
1x TAG
Engine 275 Standard
DHS
Endo

I think that build is great. You have the really long reach with the LRM's and you can also brawl when it comes down to that. And Case, drop them, they suck.

Edited by MadPanda, 20 December 2012 - 03:39 AM.

[Stingz]

The Stalker is the one mech where I find Endo-Steel to be useless, takes up slots that DHS really needs. Try dropping the 2 M.Las if you worry about heat.

2 LRM-20s take longer, but have better heat than 4 LRM-10s going off.

[Ewigan]

But i keep reading that LRMs do more spread now....
i'm thinking on going to 3 LRM10 with Artemis or 4 LRM5 with Artemis and add some lasers/Tag/DHS.

[Kiiyor]

3 streaks, 2 SRM6, and a swathe of MLAS. Standard 300, or 310 if i'm feeling like the extra few kph is worth the extra tonnage... which it probably never is, but it's a placebo thing. I second everyone's comments about endo, as you need every inch of internal structure for juicy heatsinks.

Streaks help you deal with lights, SRM6's and MLAS for everything else. They are also a nice counterpoint to the turns-like-there's-a-fat-woman-on-my-back torso twist speed; once you have a lock, the streaks will be able to fire long after baddies have moved out of your fire arcs.

If you're worried that the streaks will **** their pants when the ECM boogeyman casts his shadow over you, you could run 4MLAS and Tag. If you can tag them in the sweet spot between total shutdown and 270m, you can nail them.

They can cover that distance in around a friggin second though, so I've found it's use situational.

I've had 2 matches in that with over 1000 damage so far. And a couple with... maybe 100. But I love the **** out of it.

[Ewigan]

thx for the idea, and i might try that at some point.
that would completely go against the ida that i have for running a SUPPORT role mech though, who isn't supposed to wade into the front lines

[Thorqemada]

Ok, my 2 Cent on the Stalker...

Its L/R Torso is weak to the extreme - usually you lose a L/R side way before you lose an arm what means that you lose 50% of your firepower very early from getting only slight damage to only one part of your Mech.

That means that you have 2 ways to play the Mech:
Alpha anything in front of you into oblivion before it can slighty damage your side and render you 50% helpless and hope nothing else shots your L/R Torso while doing so.
Or do not ever expose your Stalker to enemy fire and play a true indirect fire support Mech (which only works reliable in a Premade).

For an indirect Fire Support a std250 engine should be good enough (with DHS (i run mine as close/med range oblivion alphaing setup with an std300 engine and 16 DHS and use also Endosteel)).
I would not put an XL engine in a Stalker - not even in an indirect fire support mech.
Now you can go for 2x LRM 20 and spend the rest for close range weapons in case someone makes it through to the frontline and you need to emergency alpha it down with i.e. 5ML and 2 SRM6.
Or you go for 4x LRM5 with a tight spread and a high rate of fire and put even bigger Lasers on your boat in case you want to cover snipe from the far on someone exposed on the battlefield in a mix of indirect/direct long range fire.
TAG is a must have.
Artemis is not needed for an indirect fire support and rendered useless by ECM in every case under any circumstance amd thus is simply dead weight.

LRM boating atm has so many counters that its really hard to achieve good results against experienced players/teams.

In the end you must find out what fits best your playstyle and gives you some satisfaction.

Edited by Thorqemada, 20 December 2012 - 06:56 AM.

[Ewigan]

Thx Thorqemada,

i took some of your ideas and advice and fiddled together a build that is fun so far, but still needs tweaking.
So far it looks like that:

300 Standard Engine
DHS
433 Standard Armor
BAP
Sensor Range Extender Module

2 Large Lasers - one left arm, one right arm
3 Medium Lasers - one left torso, two right torso
4 LRM 5 - one left torso, one right torso, one left arm, one right arm
2 AMS - one left torso, one right torso
1 CASE - one left torso
1 TAG - right arm

2 tons of AMS ammo - left torso
4 tons of LRM ammo - left torso

As many DHS as i could still fit in.

In the few games i played with it so far it worked very well, got good damage numbers, some kills, tons of assists, yadda yadda.

I do not like the fact that all of my ammo is in the same spot though.
Some things i am planning on testing:
- shave 0.5 tons of armor form the legs, add a second case in the right torso and split up my ammo
- drop one ton of AMS ammo and add 1 medium laser OR another DHS


Any thoughts?

[Elizander]

I'd just put all the LRM ammo in your legs and your AMS ammo in your head and CT. That will save you a ton off CASE.

[Mithos]

Ewigan, on 21 December 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

Any thoughts?

I did somewhat similar yesterday and more than satisfied:

1 LL + 1 TAG in STs (coz' your LRMs fire @ 180m+, you don't need arm-mounted TAG)
2 LRM 10 in STs (for the sake of 6+4 fire)
2 LRM 5 in arms
4 ML in arms
2 AMS

ES, DHS

I grouped LL and a TAG in 1 weapon group for simplification, 4 ML in 2 weap. group and all 4 LRM launchers chained in 3.

How it works? Exactly how looks: basically, its your beloved cockpit-rocking 6xLRM5 A1 cat with a TAG, LL and 4 ML (missile cd is longer than A1, ofc). You engage in combat by firing LL & TAG (keep button on this group pressed), getting missile lock and launching bombardment. When target comes closer, add MLs for melting already damaged parts. Simple, but surprisingly effective.

[Dirus Nigh]

How quick do you go through ammo?

LRM10s have a nice rate of fire and the spread is not that much. However they weigh five tons. If you wanted to save more weight you could swap them out for 2 LRM15s and 2 LRM5s. This will gain you two tons. You can add two more tons of LRM ammunition. Or heat sinks. Better yet add a BAP to the CT. This will give you a longer sensor range and faster lock on times. Shave off a half ton of armor and put in tag.

Honestly though I think you have a pretty good build. I'd use it. I think you just need to practice with the assault mech. How it moves, or doesn't. How long it takes to speed up and brake. This mech needs to stay at 300m. Its lack or torso speed and arc will be an in hindrance at 200m or less. Pr active how to turn quickly when you need to. Backpedaling and counter turning can help with keeping a circling mech in your front arc. also cutting your speed early for a turn. I'm sure you learned that with a commando.

[TheFuzzyBunny]

I run 4 15s with artemis, double AMS, a TAG laser, and 4 medium lasers with 8 tons of ammo for the LRMs and 2 for the AMS. I rely on my 60 missiles to do the majority of my damage. Once I run out of ammo I use the 4 mediums to finish people off, or use them on people who get to close. I think your build lacks focus right now.

[JakeEDogge]

Just as an aside, here's a load-out to avoid. Of course by the time I found out it sucks I'd already spent millions and am now stuck with it until I can afford something better.
6 Med. Pulse, 4 SSRM's with 4 tons of ammo, 2 AMS with 2 tons of ammo, case in each torso, 27 H/S, 255 std, and a Beagle. Actually comes in 2 1/2 tons under weight so a 275 std (I think) would fit but I can't be bothered wasting the C-Bills. Theory was to make a close range brawler with anti-light ability. Works ok against bigger stuff close in....but usually get killed closing or by light mechs despite the SSRM's. Actually, usually gets killed by mechs behind me I never see but thats another story.

[Autobot9000]

It's pretty obvious why youre not performing well wiht the above build:

1) Lack of Artemis
2) Low armor (yes 433 is far too low, you obviously strip armor from the torsos, which is a No-No)
3) Probably low number of heatsinks (given the other stats that you mentioned)
4) Maybe bad armor distribution


All stalkers (except pay-to-win Misery) go missiles and lasers, hence you want on all stalkers Artemis and many DHS.

You need Artemis with the LRMs. Without Artemis you have 50% less efficiency on your LRMs, so basically having 4 LRM10s without Artemis is pretty similar to having 2 LRMs with Artemis, because the tracking strength and lock on of basic LRMs just suck so extremely much. Once you have Artemis you want to minimize the number of launchers, because Artemis adds a ton per launcher, so 4x LRM10 simply cost you 2 tons more than 2xLRM20.

This guy here is general purpose, you play him on long range, you never charge in. Should someone dare to come close to you fire the LRMs as long as theyre still past 180m, if they get inside fire 4 medium lasers. No one really survives a straight head-on charge at 2xLRM20s with Artemis+TAG. Problem in straight face offs are snipers, you can't duck/snipe. Let someone else face the sniper or at least stay in full cover and let someone get vision, so you can batter him with indirect fire.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a01b1e6f16d3788


This guy here is pure long range support. He is slower than the above, but focuses his role very well. He will do well in a premade team.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f413ff66a550e70

Always put as many weapons in the arms as possible. The arms are higher up than the torsos, so lasers benefit a lot from it. Load your mech in your mech bay and select your side torsos (they visually highlight then). You will see that practically any shot, that doesnt come from the direct 0 degrees front will hit one of your side torsos, hence dont just use CASE, simply dont put any ammo in your side torsos, then you dont need CASE either.