31 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 31 July 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

The problem is because of how ECM freaking works, they had to make them stack to give LRM's a chance in hell of being viable.

They are already super iffy against the better class of player.

Not to mention I swear there's still some oddness with LRMs:
When I see a big volley incoming, I can turn my Cataphract 90degrees and take it in the arm, when I do it barely scratches the paint.
When I don't turn, and let them hit me full on the front my armor starts melting like butter on a hot griddle.

I've seen this both from the perspective of a target, and when using LRMs myself, Cataphracts are mostly immune to LRMs that hit their sides.

[Skyfaller]

One Medic Army, on 31 July 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

As those above have said: just chainfire.
No need to alpha them, unless you're trying to overwhelm an AMS system, which is intended to be a countermeasure to LRMs.

Maybe PGI did it so AMS will start actually working against LRM boats, rather than just shooting down ~6 missiles out of 50-60?

I should inform you that 2 AMS can shoot down an entire LRM15 volley (1 launcher, 15 missiles). Tested in live server multiple times and confirmed.

Chain fire makes the LRMs lose 50% effectiveness because:

1) It takes longer for the chain fire salvo from all launchers to hit the target. Aka more time for it to run to cover.

2) Saturation fire no longer possible. aka AMS systems reduce LRM damage significantly. The problem with this is that EACH launcher gets the 6-7 missiles removed from its damage potential when chain fired. Literally it makes an LRM15 become less than an LRM10. If 2 mechs with AMS are near each other it becomes useless.

Normally you would say its good AMS teamwork etc...but you have to realize the LRM already has a low impact chance without AMS in the picture (LOS block, running to cover, etc).

As it is now, LRMs are almost pointless to equip unless you are using LRM20s exclusively AND hold fire with them until you are inside 400m range. Where's the 'long range' in that?.

5s, 10s... die in midair. 15s get reduced so much its not worth the tonnage.

[AnarchyBurger]

I have a Jager with 2LRM10 and 2LRM15. Hardly a superboat. With the new penalties I can alpha 3 times before overheating. PGI screwed things up big time IMHO. As most everyone with half a brain stated, this fix would create more problems than solutions.... And so.

Horrace, on 31 July 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Have you considered a switch to using ppc's?

I guess this... *sigh*

Edited by AnarchyBurger, 31 July 2013 - 07:41 PM.

[Selfish]

The major issue with missiles getting heat scaling is that it already has a hard coded limit to how many missiles can be fired at once. If they want to adjust maximum alpha on missiles they just need to adjust the pre-existing missile tubes on mechs they find problematic. The new modular implementation has been very successful on mechs like the Victor, it's just the old models that need to be upgraded to the new tubing system.

Heat scaling is 'okay' for other weapon systems because they have no limit. If you have the space+hardpoints you could fit anything you damn well wanted. Is it better than actual hardpoint sizes for energy/ballistics? Debatable. I don't like either, but would prefer sizes. They're easier to understand and have precedent in the MW game franchise already.

This latest linking 'penalty' has just made me bump back up to a 4x LRM15 8R. There's no point in competing with LRM40s that are a weight class under me and more mobile. Anything above that costs the same as LRM60. So LRM60 (+6.7 Heat) it is. Still more heat manageable than an Assault brawler.

[Aym]

Lurms are support weapons ;-)

[One Medic Army]

Skyfaller, on 31 July 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

I should inform you that 2 AMS can shoot down an entire LRM15 volley (1 launcher, 15 missiles). Tested in live server multiple times and confirmed.

Chain fire makes the LRMs lose 50% effectiveness because:

1) It takes longer for the chain fire salvo from all launchers to hit the target. Aka more time for it to run to cover.

2) Saturation fire no longer possible. aka AMS systems reduce LRM damage significantly. The problem with this is that EACH launcher gets the 6-7 missiles removed from its damage potential when chain fired. Literally it makes an LRM15 become less than an LRM10. If 2 mechs with AMS are near each other it becomes useless.

Normally you would say its good AMS teamwork etc...but you have to realize the LRM already has a low impact chance without AMS in the picture (LOS block, running to cover, etc).

As it is now, LRMs are almost pointless to equip unless you are using LRM20s exclusively AND hold fire with them until you are inside 400m range. Where's the 'long range' in that?.

5s, 10s... die in midair. 15s get reduced so much its not worth the tonnage.

So you don't chain 4 directly, you fire 2x15s then 2x15s, that gives you 2x volleys of 30.
Also, even if they get into cover, your LRMs are still using up their AMS ammo.

[Corvus Antaka]

LRMS may need some love in the future.

[Theodor Kling]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 July 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

IIRC you only got one bonus on TT. I on't ever remember a player trying to sack all three bonuses. in fact if you ha NARC you had to carry Ammo hat was for NARC use, same with AG and Artemis.

Narc needed narc ammo, tag needed semi guided ammo and only affected indirect fire ( main reason for tag were Arrow IV anyway ), artemis.. not sure.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 31 July 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

LRMS may need some love in the future.

The problem is: apart from being somewhat CT seeking they were nearly there before this. I don´t understand why they needed to nerf LRM alphas .. they were already hot and ammo hungry... not to mention the other more lrm contra direct fire stuff.

[Mindwipe]

Theodor Kling, on 31 July 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

The problem is: apart from being somewhat CT seeking they were nearly there before this. I don´t understand why they needed to nerf LRM alphas .. they were already hot and ammo hungry... not to mention the other more lrm contra direct fire stuff.

I'm going to guess this was a preemptive strike against Clan tech. Clan LRMs weight half as much and have no minimum range. Which could be an issue down the road, so best to get it out of the way now. It's another strike against using LRM's to me, as I find they're mostly useless for their requirements.

Not trying to defend the decision just looking for logical arguments for it.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I think I see the point. I have to admit, getting 1-2 shotted by LRMs which piloting an Assault mech is a bit over the top. Having the heatscaling in place will limit the size of the volleys thus giving people more of a chance to get to some cover. It only affects those massive volleys used by a select few mechs. The rest of LRM users arent affected at all.

[Khobai]

Quote

I think I see the point. I have to admit, getting 1-2 shotted by LRMs which piloting an Assault mech is a bit over the top.

And I agree, but that has more to do with the center torso bias on damage, than it does with heat. People aim for your center torso, and even missiles with artemis and TAG are very likely to go into the center torso of an Atlas. Center Torsos are just not armored enough to take all the damage we aim at them. Its a convergence issue and a missile spread issue... LRMs should not all be going into an Atlases center torso like that.

[Selfish]

Khobai, on 01 August 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

And I agree, but that has more to do with the center torso bias on damage, than it does with heat. People aim for your center torso, and even missiles with artemis and TAG are very likely to go into the center torso of an Atlas. Center Torsos are just not armored enough to take all the damage we aim at them. Its a convergence issue and a missile spread issue... LRMs should not all be going into an Atlases center torso like that.

The current CT seek isn't a permanent addition. Like the devs said. It's only such a strong seek because they completely removed splash from missiles to figure out the hitbox issue that's been causing so many issues. It makes missiles do more damage to a model via splash, it makes people miss spiders and other mechs like crazy, and it's what makes an entire salvo of missiles 'disappear' when they slam into the side/back of many mechs. When it's fixed splash can come back, and they'll loosen the bones.