23 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

you convergence guys sure are persistent.

[Colin Thrase]

GlycerineOxide

Enjoyed your story, and found it both creative and funny.

I'm wondering if you could post a follow-up for those of us who didn't join until open beta, and because we were late to the game, might not understand another 'adjustment' PGI has made.

• Why do double heat sinks dissipate 1.4 heat, rather than 2?
  
• Why do PPC and ER PPC do 8 and 11 heat, respectively, rather than 10 and 15?

The scaling down is roughly the same for DHS as it is for PPCs (it would be 7 and 10.5 heat if it were exact, but it's pretty close). Many of the other weapons aren't scaled down the same - so while they are generating heat close to what they would in TT, they are by comparison much hotter in this game since dissipation is slower. The medium laser, a 'staple' in TT mechs designs, is actually worse that TT stats (4 heat instead of 3), which is compounded by the less powerful 1.4 DHS.

Seems to me that if they bumped up the DHS to 2 and the PPC and ER PPC to 10 and 15 respectively (as they are in the tabletop game), it would make the other weapons more attractive (provided they left those heat values largely unchanged). You could fire the smaller weapons more often, which would bring combat range closer (I'm assuming of course that people would close range faster in order to use the smaller weapons that would fire more often because of the restored DHS values).

However, I'm sure PGI had a reason for making the change they did, so I'm reluctant to make a request to return to normal values without knowing why they modified them in the first place.

[Tonberry]

Colin Thrase, on 05 August 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

GlycerineOxide

Enjoyed your story, and found it both creative and funny.

I'm wondering if you could post a follow-up for those of us who didn't join until open beta, and because we were late to the game, might not understand another 'adjustment' PGI has made.

• Why do double heat sinks dissipate 1.4 heat, rather than 2?
  
• Why do PPC and ER PPC do 8 and 11 heat, respectively, rather than 10 and 15?

The scaling down is roughly the same for DHS as it is for PPCs (it would be 7 and 10.5 heat if it were exact, but it's pretty close). Many of the other weapons aren't scaled down the same - so while they are generating heat close to what they would in TT, they are by comparison much hotter in this game since dissipation is slower. The medium laser, a 'staple' in TT mechs designs, is actually worse that TT stats (4 heat instead of 3), which is compounded by the less powerful 1.4 DHS.


Seems to me that if they bumped up the DHS to 2 and the PPC and ER PPC to 10 and 15 respectively (as they are in the tabletop game), it would make the other weapons more attractive (provided they left those heat values largely unchanged). You could fire the smaller weapons more often, which would bring combat range closer (I'm assuming of course that people would close range faster in order to use the smaller weapons that would fire more often because of the restored DHS values).

However, I'm sure PGI had a reason for making the change they did, so I'm reluctant to make a request to return to normal values without knowing why they modified them in the first place.

^^
This is what it used to be like before DHS and before they 'fixed' the heat on small and medium lasers.

[Alienfreak]

KhanRed, on 02 August 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

Im not gonna lie, I was board with your creative writing... well written to an extent, but I fail to see the point, unless its "stop complaining, the devs cater to the weak and have no idea how to balance the game". You mention convergance, yet a good 25% of my PPC OR gauss fail to inflict any damage when they hit. YES its a hit, explodes on target, with no damage, its an issue with more than just myself. Sometimes they hit the rear and do damage to the front... I am quickly growing sick of this game, it pains me to say.

(PPC) HIT, HIT, HIT with no damage, and then heat is max... with a HE of 1.4 yah thats really OP. People complain about PPC, yet I would argue most energy weapons are UNDERpowered... expecially because of the new heat "balance". They have added rediculous heat penalties for alpha strike that affect STOCK MECHS, not just on energy but everything, for too many of a specific weapon (comming soon to combinations of weapons) just because a bunch of pugs cant play...

So because we now have a huge problem with hit detection no further measures are needed?
We should balance our game around a bug?
And because you are so smart: This bug mainly affects lights. Assaults of the size of an Atlas are only partially affected. So your 40+ damage snipe sk1llz will damage him severely.

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I am yet to see a single PGI person worth their tonnage play this game... most run light mechs. They got rolled with PPC in a game I was in; literally less than a week later the initial heat penalties showed up. No offence (well maybe some), but PGI "views" on balance are for the **** player because they themselves are **** players. I bet >75% of the people complaining are garbage players but talk on the forums non stop so they think they are experts. After the last patch I read they are going to increase heat on PPC and ERPPC EVEN MORE than they just did, in the near future! I hope you introduce the new pulse balance and see how that goes before just arbitrarily raising heat again...

They lowered its base heat because of it was that bad in earlier versions. Nowaday the lowered heat makes no sense. So they will (most probably) up it again.

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HEY EINSTEIN... you dont want your CT cored in 2 sec? Don't stand out in the open for everyone to shoot you or run off all alone. If you peak over an area where a group of baddies are looking, youre going to get poped, period, end of story, go cry to mama. Ive seen Cataphract 4x stand in the open expecting to take down one of the 5 guys they are looking at; they die and say "F'n PPC's", I say youre "F'n Dumb". It doesnt matter what youre getting hit with at that point, if youre focus fired, you die almost 100% of the time. Ill do it from time to time... its not the weapons fault, its my own dumb *** when I do that, sometimes it pays off.

This game is ADVERTISED AS: THE SMART PERSONS SHOOTER, yet balance after balance, PGI proves otherwise... Its the idiots shooter... heat math makes no sense, end game damage math makes no sense... I can only imagine what PGI ISNT telling us about, I guarantee its not "nothing" (it wouldn't surprise me if they "tweaked" the volcano map trying to further reduce PPC boating; ironic timing otherwise, expecially with several other glaring issues this close to official launch). No wonder they won't publish how the rolls work for us to see. IM CONVINCED there is more intentional stuff (not bugs or balance issues) going on than we know about. I hope you read this PGI... I hardly ever get on the forums, nor do my friends.... there are alot of LOYAL, adult, MW fans out here that think you are handling the balance aweful, youre alienating us every time you **** balance like this, we arent dumb; youre balances have to be some of the least thought out balances Ive seen, most make no sence logicly aside from trying to punish the players that are "too good". How about a match maker that actually works, tonnage AND player experiance! You have had since closed beta to figure that one out and still havent, it should be easy if as many people play as claimed. Maybe you should focus on that rather than turning the game to ****?

All that being said, I only have one mech that runs PPC... many of these "balance issues" haven't effected me. Ive killed plenty of PPC boats, Im not afraid, I don't think they are OP... play smart and you win, thats all there is to it... PPL compairing this to TT game need to stop. Its impossible to compaire the two, mechanics are totally different; here I dont aim with dice. Also the convergance... it still takes talent to hit with all weapons if they are in arms/torso, unless your locked... then you cant aim up, down, or over with your arms so theres the trade off. People today are just sore loosers... every one expects to be the best all the time and thats just not the case.

Thx EINSTEIN. Since I can totally hit the same house sized target, which is the hit location's size of most mechs with Arms AND non-Arm weapons I feel totally awesome and talented.
And the new heat system isn't hard to grasp at all if you IQ isn't hovering at around 80.

Good to know what you think a smart person should and shouldn't be able to do to count as smart...

Not that the heat system is good by any means. But at least its temporary fix that pretty much works and keeps the worst Boats at bay (4PPC, 4-5 LL)

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While I agree with you Glycerine to an extent, but convergance is not the issue... my hit % is around 50% with both PPC and Gauss. Now Im far from the best sniper, but I regularly do large ammounts of damage, usually most on the team or lance, but I doubt many people have a rediculously higher % than that. If I had to guess, most people are around this mark. I think its more player intelligence. Ive seen people ignore an almost dead assult just to chase a light mech arond the corner into the swarm of baddies... and healer mech?!? Lol, I think you helped prove my point by bringing that up; its called a repair bay and I would be ok if they NEVER show up... /facepalm indeed!

1. You should work on your accuracy.
2. Large amounts of damage != skill. You can kill a mech with little damage in this game. Even the Assault ones. We aren't playing TT or such...
3. The little teamwork is often a direct result of having no coordination. If you play in teams with voice this is differently of course. Even with the acquisition module and the BAP it takes some seconds (maybe 2?) to get the information on your target. More if they have ECM. So to get the best target out of 5 enemies I still have to waste several Alphas worth of time to get the highly damaged one. You can flatten most mechs in that time frame.
No to say that most people aren't stupid though. Most people just don't think in combat.
4. Gameplay with REAL bases and repair bays and costs for mechs instead of this boring "TEAM DM WITH SLIGHT VARIATIONS" would save this game big time. Just imagine how much use a light would suddenly have. He can go cap things. He can sabotage things. He can easily disengage and repair up...
Look at MW:LL for that... it... WORKS...

But that would be kinda smart. Oh wait! Even Battlefield uses such a system. So maybe Battlefield is not a shooter for SMART PERSONS but for GENIUS PERSONS.
We should write EA a letter of appreciation.

Edited by Alienfreak, 06 August 2013 - 07:59 AM.