12 replies to this topic

[Kalthios]

When shooting a target's left or right side and rolling a center torso hit, does it count as a rear or frontal hit? On the battle map it looks like it should be a rear hit but I can't find it in the rules.

This is a match deciding question, if it is frontal, my opponent's mech get's cored, if rear, just some armor damage.

Edited by Kalthios, 14 August 2012 - 06:07 PM.

[Arctic Fox]

As far as I know, only hits that go directly through the rear hexside of the 'Mech are actually applied to the rear armour. So, if I'm not mistaken, shots against the left and right sides would hit the front armour.

[Kalthios]

Thanks for that clarification. If it had counted as rear I would have lost. We played the rest of the match assuming that it hit rear armor and I lost.

[Beazle]

Yup, shots from the side hit the front.

[Wrayeth]

That fact that torso shots from the left or right hit the front actually gives a powerful incentive to maneuver against your enemy. Say that, after several rounds of fire, you've drastically weakened your enemy's right torso armor. Inside that torso, the enemy either has ammo, an XL engine, or both. At this point, your best bet would be to maneuver into that unit's right arc to give yourself an increased chance of hitting the right torso and making your opponent explode/fall over with his engine destroyed.

Edited by Wrayeth, 15 August 2012 - 03:59 AM.

[Sidney]

Wrayeth, on 15 August 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

That fact that torso shots from the left or right hit the front actually gives a powerful incentive to maneuver against your enemy.

Especially in regards to Through-Armour-Criticals (or 'TACs'). Normally when you roll a '2' on the hit table you hit the Centre Torso and get a free chance at a critical hit, regardless if there's armour or not.

On the left and right side hit tables, however, the locations remain the same but change position on the table slightly to increase the odds you'll hit one side over the other (For example, on the front there's a 6/36 chance you'll hit the Centre Torso and 5/36 chance you'll hit one of the side torsos. On the right side table it's the Right Torso that has a 6/36 chance of being hit, while the Left and Centre Torsos are 5/36 odds)

This applies to the TACs as well- rolling a TAC on a side table gives you a chance at a critical against that side's torso, rather than the centre torso.

While that may seem undesirable, many 3025 'mechs carry only ammo in one of their side torsos... and so every weapon becomes a one hit kill (just like an AC20 or Gauss Rifle hit to the head) on a successful TAC (Roll of 8+)

Edited by Sidney, 15 August 2012 - 05:16 AM.

[Beazle]

Sidney, on 15 August 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

Especially in regards to Through-Armour-Criticals (or 'TACs'). Normally when you roll a '2' on the hit table you hit the Centre Torso and get a free chance at a critical hit, regardless if there's armour or not.

On the left and right side hit tables, however, the locations remain the same but change position on the table slightly to increase the odds you'll hit one side over the other (For example, on the front there's a 6/36 chance you'll hit the Centre Torso and 5/36 chance you'll hit one of the side torsos. On the right side table it's the Right Torso that has a 6/36 chance of being hit, while the Left and Centre Torsos are 5/36 odds)

This applies to the TACs as well- rolling a TAC on a side table gives you a chance at a critical against that side's torso, rather than the centre torso.

While that may seem undesirable, many 3025 'mechs carry only ammo in one of their side torsos... and so every weapon becomes a one hit kill (just like an AC20 or Gauss Rifle hit to the head) on a successful TAC (Roll of 8+)

always been a fan of floating TACs myself.

[Jale]

When rear armor is wasted( and thats very soon) dmg apply to frontal chassis, if ur still firing from behind...

[Sychodemus]

Just a homebrew rule for those that prefer a more tactical version. Be warned that this removes TACs from standard gameplay (which many people like/hate with very little in-between.) Some people like it, others don't.

• Front/Rear: Replace the 2* (CT possible critical) result with a normal CT result.
  
• Left: Replace the 2* (LT possible critical) result with a LT (rear) result.
  
• Right: Replace the 2* (RT possible critical) result with a RT (rear) result.

(Consider: 2* results have a side-effect that mitigate effects from people with "hot" dice that roll high. If you absolutely love TACs, just let it happen on boxcars on the attack roll. But this can potentially make "hot" dice even more of a pain. So if possible always use community dice or for fun ask the players to trade dice so you can see their faces pale.)

[Sidney]

Jale, on 20 August 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

When rear armor is wasted( and thats very soon) dmg apply to frontal chassis, if ur still firing from behind...

Are you saying when you lose armour, damage goes internal? If so, yes it does.

However, the original question is more about incoming fire to side arcs than it is torsos.

Edited by Sidney, 21 August 2012 - 06:01 AM.

[Sidney]

To elaborate, I found someone posted a question on a different forum (and didn't get an answer) to his question. (Which is a shame. He was asking how the front arc worked- the answer is that the yellow hexes are the front arc in the picture)



The only time damage that hits the torsos is applied to the rear armour is when it comes in through the hex directly behind the 'mech (Hex 0510).

Fire that comes in from 0409 (to the rear left of the 'mech) is applied to the Left side table. Torso hits here are applied to the front armour. Likewise, hits from 0609 are applied to the right side table- again, torso are front hits.

When fire comes in between two hexes, the defender gets to pick which hex it crosses.
For example, if a 'mech was in 0610 and shooting the 'mech in the diagram, the fire crosses between 0510 and 0609. The defender (green 'mech) can pick either 0510, which means it'll hit him on the rear table- or he can pick 0609 and take it on his right side table. Usually he'll pick the right side table, as it means any torso hits will be applied to his front torso armour.

While they're not on diagram, 0411 and 0611 (That would be the hex between 0410 and the 'Firing Arc Diagram' label and 0610 and the 'Firing Arc diagram' label respectively) would cross between 0410 and 0511 or 0610 and 0511. No matter what hex the defender picks, the fire would then enter 0510 before hitting the 'mech- hitting him on the rear table.

Arcs are 'cones' in this fashion. The rear arc (and the side arcs for that matter) are one hex on the first row (0510), then three hexes (0411, 0511, and 0611), then five hexes across (0312, 0412, 0512, 0612, and 0712),and so on

Edited by Sidney, 21 August 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[Stable Manager William]

I found the diagrams in Total Warfare probably the best they've ever published when it comes to arcs of fire and damage arcs.

[c19]

Wrayeth, on 15 August 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

That fact that torso shots from the left or right hit the front actually gives a powerful incentive to maneuver against your enemy. Say that, after several rounds of fire, you've drastically weakened your enemy's right torso armor. Inside that torso, the enemy either has ammo, an XL engine, or both. At this point, your best bet would be to maneuver into that unit's right arc to give yourself an increased chance of hitting the right torso and making your opponent explode/fall over with his engine destroyed.

is it just me or does it seem that the R/L torso destroyed then shoot at CT from side basically at engine in CT, yet you aren't doing jack damage. Seems pointless to destroy R/L torso unless chance they have ammo or engine in there. The engine shielding and engine should be destroyed with ease after L/R torso gone and nothing protecting internal CT from that angle