49 replies to this topic

[General Taskeen]

Sephlock, on 02 August 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

[Sprouticus]

El Bandito, on 03 August 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

PGI is not made of thin skinned 10 year old boys who are affected by negativity on the forums. They simply don't look at this forum at all. Gameplay Balance forum is pretty much a thrown bone for forumers who think their opinions matter to gnaw on--I realized that after spending a lot of time here. How many PGI devs aside from Niko had graced the Gameplay Balance forums in the last month? Most of the time it is Garth making some useless comment about his Garthmobile.

I think they do look at threads, even if they don't post. I have seen comments by the devs indicating this...but the signal-noise ratio here is fairly high. It would take a lot of time to post in these forums on a regular basis.

But let's assume for just a second that they don't and they ignore this forum as you believe.

Why post? Why complain? Why whine? It does no good, they are not listening. All you do by adding to the noise is ensure that they would not want to review such posts. And thus any post of real value get ignored. It is a self fulfilling prophesy.

[El Bandito]

Sprouticus, on 03 August 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Ok, maybe I am missing something. Can I ask why? What does this add to your existence. What value? I am being serious here. I just don't get why you would intentionally wallow in your own misery like this. If you think the game is FUBAR, then leave and come back later(or dont). You are HURTING the chance of real positive change occurring by cluttering good posts with snark and bitterness. You are of course correct, you are free to do what you like. Just realize that you are not actually adding anything, only detracting from other constructive conversations.

Ok, maybe I am missing something too. Can I ask why? What does this add to your existence? What value? I am being serious here. I just don't get why you would intentionally continue an argument that has no end since we have two different perspective of PGI and MWO. You are of course correct, you are free to disagree and bicker. Just realize that you are not actually adding anything, only wasting more of your time where you could be doing something else.

Sprouticus, on 03 August 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

I think they do look at threads, even if they don't post. I have seen comments by the devs indicating this...but the signal-noise ratio here is fairly high. It would take a lot of time to post in these forums on a regular basis. But let's assume for just a second that they don't and they ignore this forum as you believe. Why post? Why complain? Why whine? It does no good, they are not listening. All you do by adding to the noise is ensure that they would not want to review such posts. And thus any post of real value get ignored. It is a self fulfilling prophesy.

Ah, ah, ah...first thing you don't do is to assume. Only thing here is your unsubstantiated belief that the so called signal-to-noise ratio is high. Care to back it up?

Negativity can be a wake up call. Too bad PGI had already put their headphones on, tight. Only thing that will happen with most certainty is that a Forum Mod will see this thread and lock it.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 August 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[El Bandito]

Lokust Davion, on 03 August 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

im about to throw the towel as well.. lets play this f2p flight simulation game called "DCS World" while we wait for MWO's official launch date.

Is that a fighter sim? How is that game different from "War Thunder", which is also a F2P fighter sim game?

Edited by El Bandito, 03 August 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Sprouticus]

El Bandito, on 03 August 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Ok, maybe I am missing something too. Can I ask why? What does this add to your existence? What value? I am being serious here. I just don't get why you would intentionally continue an argument that has no end since we have two different perspective of PGI and MWO. You are of course correct, you are free to disagree and bicker. Just realize that you are not actually adding anything, only wasting more of your time where you could be doing something else.

You are drawing false equivilence. But I'll answer you, if only to demonstrate what a pleasant debate looks like.

I post here to add my opinion on the game balance. I think my opinion is noted. I realize that I am just one person and that my opinion is not the be all end all. I realize that others will disagree. But that does not lessen the value of my opinion.

A perfect example of this is 3PV. I have not made up my mind on this. Partly because I did not get a chance to test it, and partly because it is a complex subject. I HAVE read a lot of good posts on the pros and cons of the system. Da Zur had a great post that had some really good feedback from both camps.

Once I get a chance to play for myself, I will add my own feedback.


THAT is what I get out of this.


You on the other hand add no value. You complain, sure, but what does that do? This is why you post was silly. You try to say that we are both the same. We are not. You don't believe your words will be read, that they are important.


Like I said in my initial post, sarcasm is the refuge of the coward. You believe that the game is doomed but are afraid to admit it and let yourself grieve over a lost opportunity to save the mechwarrior franchise. You care so much that you hate to admit that this game you want so badly to work is not (in your opinon)So you hang around, complaining and being snarky.

If you really believe that, let it go man. Just walk away. You will feel better if you let yourself grieve. But don't be surprised if this game is still here next year. And don't get angry if you were wrong.

[Lokust Davion]

El Bandito, on 03 August 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Is that a fighter sim? How is that game different from "War Thunder", which is also a F2P fighter sim game.

war thunder's an arcade,.. this one's a REAL sim everything in the cockpit including the buttons, switches, dials, etc works just like in real life.

Edited by Lokust Davion, 03 August 2013 - 07:32 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

El Bandito, on 03 August 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

Ah, ah, ah...first thing you don't do is to assume. Only thing here is your unsubstantiated belief that the so called signal to noise ratio is high. Care to back it up?

This +1.

The signal to noise ratio is probably higher today than it was 6 months ago. But early 2013, the forum was flooded with many different threads offering different solutions to ELO, weight balancing between teams, making light and medium mechs more viable, fixing underperforming mechs such as the Spider and Dragon, heat management, pin-point aiming, etc. There were threads with hundreds of replies, most of them constructive and eloquent.

Fast forward a few months. PGI makes a number of changes that go against what the majority of fans have been suggesting, the game suffers, and the fans are left saying "I told you so" to deaf ears.

I don't believe for a second that PGI listens to the fans, in any meaningful sense. The proof is in the pudding. Look at what has happened, and more importantly, not happened over the last 8 months. The trunk of the game is neglected, while programmers are working on 3PV.

Sprouticus, on 03 August 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

equivilence.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 03 August 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[Erata]

K-Town or Bust.

[General Taskeen]

Lokust Davion, on 03 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

war thunder's an arcade,.. this one's a REAL sim

Apparently people don't know what what REAL combat simulators are. War Thunder is CRAP.

IL-2, CLoD, Silent Hunter, DCS Blackshark/Warthog, etc. are the best sims available.

[Alistair Winter]

General Taskeen, on 03 August 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

Apparently people don't know what what REAL combat simulators are. War Thunder is CRAP.
IL-2, CLoD, Silent Hunter, DCS Blackshark/Warthog, etc. are the best sims available.

Silent Hunter 5 seems to have received a fair bit of criticism, as has Cliffs of Dover.

It's a pity that there's just not a big market for good real combat sims. Is DCS the first realistic modern combat sim since LOMAC? It seems that 99% of combat sims being made are for WW2.

[Erata]

There are very few people playing this game who would actually play a simulator, given the stance most of them have on the game's balance and their perceptions on which weapons are the most flexible and valuable and be able to explain why, or have the presence of mind to put their pride aside to look at the numbers, reveal their Elo, who they play with, and change their opinion should an opposing argument hold water.

tl;dr: mechwarrior online = totally a simulator, you guys.

[El Bandito]

Sprouticus, on 03 August 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

You are drawing false equivilence. But I'll answer you, if only to demonstrate what a pleasant debate looks like. I post here to add my opinion on the game balance. I think my opinion is noted. I realize that I am just one person and that my opinion is not the be all end all. I realize that others will disagree. But that does not lessen the value of my opinion. A perfect example of this is 3PV. I have not made up my mind on this. Partly because I did not get a chance to test it, and partly because it is a complex subject. I HAVE read a lot of good posts on the pros and cons of the system. Da Zur had a great post that had some really good feedback from both camps. Once I get a chance to play for myself, I will add my own feedback. THAT is what I get out of this. You on the other hand add no value. You complain, sure, but what does that do? This is why you post was silly. You try to say that we are both the same. We are not. You don't believe your words will be read, that they are important. Like I said in my initial post, sarcasm is the refuge of the coward. You believe that the game is doomed but are afraid to admit it and let yourself grieve over a lost opportunity to save the mechwarrior franchise. You care so much that you hate to admit that this game you want so badly to work is not (in your opinon)So you hang around, complaining and being snarky. If you really believe that, let it go man. Just walk away. You will feel better if you let yourself grieve. But don't be surprised if this game is still here next year. And don't get angry if you were wrong.

Let me tell you what a "pleasant debate" should include. It should not include accusation based on assumption. Your previous "high signal-to-noise ratio" bumbling aside, I never said this game is doomed.

Besides, my posts do have value--if only for entertainment and affirmation of like minded fellows' thoughts. I got 1786 likes to prove that.

You got lot to learn, junior.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 August 2013 - 08:02 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Erata, on 03 August 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

There are very few people playing this game who would actually play a simulator, given the stance most of them have on the game's balance and their perceptions on which weapons are the most flexible and valuable and be able to explain why, or have the presence of mind to put their pride aside to look at the numbers, reveal their Elo, who they play with, and change their opinion should an opposing argument hold water.

I'm not sure I understand everything you said here. How does a stance towards game balance reveal that a player wouldn't play a simulator, for example?

I would love to play a simulator, and yet I expect a Spider to be as valuable as an Atlas, given how the game works now. This may give people the impression that I don't want realism, as the Atlas should realistically be much more valuable than a Spider. But actually, my stance comes from the fact that in order to make a fun game that is also realistic, the game would need to go through a number of fundamental changes that PGI has never even contemplated. So given that the game will never fundamentally change, I prefer seeing a game where 8 Spiders are equal to 8 Atlai, rather than a game where all team compositions are inferior to 8 Atlai.

What we have now is comparable to a medieval battle sim, where each player has the choice of playing either a peasant armed with a sharpened stick, or a mounted knight in full plate armour.

El Bandito, on 03 August 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

Besides, my posts do have value--if only for entertainment. I got 1786 likes to prove that.
You got lot to learn, junior.

Do you even have a like/post ratio above 1.00, bro?

[El Bandito]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

I'm not sure I understand everything you said here. How does a stance towards game balance reveal that a player wouldn't play a simulator, for example? I would love to play a simulator, and yet I expect a Spider to be as valuable as an Atlas, given how the game works now. This may give people the impression that I don't want realism, as the Atlas should realistically be much more valuable than a Spider. But actually, my stance comes from the fact that in order to make a fun game that is also realistic, the game would need to go through a number of fundamental changes that PGI has never even contemplated. So given that the game will never fundamentally change, I prefer seeing a game where 8 Spiders are equal to 8 Atlai, rather than a game where all team compositions are inferior to 8 Atlai. What we have now is comparable to a medieval battle sim, where each player has the choice of playing either a peasant armed with a sharpened stick, or a mounted knight in full plate armour. Do you even have a like/post ratio above 1.00, bro?

While I completely agree that Lights mechs should be as rewarding to play as Assaults, I do believe the current failed hit-registration system had made Spiders as daunting to face as Atlai--if not more.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 August 2013 - 08:37 AM.

[MisterFiveSeven]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

I would love to play a simulator, and yet I expect a Spider to be as valuable as an Atlas, given how the game works now. This may give people the impression that I don't want realism, as the Atlas should realistically be much more valuable than a Spider. But actually, my stance comes from the fact that in order to make a fun game that is also realistic, the game would need to go through a number of fundamental changes that PGI has never even contemplated. So given that the game will never fundamentally change, I prefer seeing a game where 8 Spiders are equal to 8 Atlai, rather than a game where all team compositions are inferior to 8 Atlai.

Agree completely. But I think you meant stalker, not atlas. Yummy hitboxes that have broken since the mech dropped

[El Bandito]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Do you even have a like/post ratio above 1.00, bro?

I'm getting there. In terms of likes, quantity is just as good as quality.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 August 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Lightfoot]

I've been waiting for actual LRMs for over a year now, but I think one day they might actually work like they should in an inter-active online version of MechWarrior.

PGI is trying to get them to work like Table-Top LRMs, and they can't balance it, at least not yet. I would have them weaker in in-direct fire with no Narc or TAG, but as powerful as any direct-fired weapon with Line of Sight, or just dump the indirect fire thing since they have had a year to balance this and have totally failed.

LRMs and the Awesome hitboxes from Mars are my two biggest disappointments, since nothing ever appears to get fixed with them, but there is still hope. Hope that they do get fixed soon.

[Sprouticus]

El Bandito, on 03 August 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

Let me tell you what a "pleasant debate" should include. It should not include accusation based on assumption. Your previous "high signal-to-noise ratio" bumbling aside, I never said this game is doomed.

Besides, my posts do have value--if only for entertainment and affirmation of like minded fellows' thoughts. I got 1786 likes to prove that.

You got lot to learn, junior.

You are correct, you never said it was doomed. You simply said you stopped playing and decided to post on the forums. And since the posts are universally negative and add nothing to the discussion, I did assume that you felt them game was doomed. My bad.

As for the 'bumbling', I stand by my post. Adding to the noise on these forums only hurts the chance of REAL suggestions being reviewed.

[Sprouticus]

El Bandito, on 03 August 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

While I completely agree that Lights mechs should be as rewarding to play as Assaults, I do believe the current failed hi-registration system had made Spiders as daunting to face as Atlai--if not more.

Now THIS is something we can agree on. I hope their investigation of the HSR/hitbox/whatever issue with spiders is fruitful. Soon. Because until they fix this, it is impossible to properly balance lights.

[Felbombling]