306 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

Hi Paul,

my name in Wolves and I can not think of a reason why large pulse laser needed a nerf.

If you don't know the stats for it you can it look up here, on this external homepage:
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#weapon_beam

As you might see, the large pulse laser is inferior to the Laser Laser, to the PPC and even to the ERPPC in nearly every possible stat.

CONS:
- Small Range (tiny range if you compare it to PPC or ERPPC
- Extreme HPS
- Duration (Harder to hit)
- 7 tons, but hugely inferior the the LL in every possible scenario in game.

PROS:
- 0.6 more Damage (!)

This weapon did not need a nerf, it would have needed a BUFF instead as the medium pulse laser.

I can not imagine why a sane man can not see this.

I can not understand, how a person in the gaming industry can come up with such a idea.

Please Paul,

Tell me why you did this.

Best regards,
Wolves

LethalRose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

The old LPL had a DPS / HPS ratio of 1.37. 2nd only to small lasers.

The new LPL has a DPS / HPS ratio of 1.25. Making them inline with the other energy weapons.

You missed the post where this was explained.

This is only an 8% nerf. I still think LPL's are one of the strongest weapons in pug games.

I love this! Nice try bro.

---

This goes beyond the LPL, its the easy exploitable "Heat Penalty System", the handholding overheat mechanics, LRMs (useless, OP, useless, OP), the size of the mechs: Quickdraw, Cent and Treb as big as an Atlas, MG & Flamer was useless for more than a year, community warfare was promised to start 6 months ago, SRM are still "hotfixed solution soon™ for 4 month now.

I really want the way to be good and succesfull, but I think they might be a serious problem with the balance team. Paul, is the balance team, so maybe there is a connection.

Edited by WolvesX, 10 July 2013 - 05:07 AM.

[Jonny Taco]

Obviously "fixing" things that don't need fixing is their top priority.

[FupDup]

PGI got some dumb idea that all pulse lasers need the same damage and heat increase %'s across the board rather than setting those variables to values that work for each individual pulse laser class.

[Sumbi]

Agree

[WolvesX]

FupDup, on 04 July 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

PGI got some dumb idea that all pulse lasers need the same damage and heat increase %'s across the board rather than setting those variables to values that work for each individual pulse laser class.

Yeah, but this idea is just ******. Yes, there I said it. ******.

I don't say that Paul is ******, as I'm not a member of the dev team, my wisdom can not explain this.

Please enlighten me.

Edited by WolvesX, 04 July 2013 - 04:10 PM.

[FupDup]

WolvesX, on 04 July 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Yeah, but this idea is just st*pi*. Yes, there I said it. St*di*.

I don't say that Paul is st*pi*, as I'm not a member of the dev team, my wisdom can now explain this.

Please enlighten me.

PGI felt like making it so all pulse lasers had +20% damage and +25% heat compared to the standard laser of the same class. It's pretty much just because they said so.


Their error is that the LPL requires a much larger weight sacrifice than any other pulse laser, so it should naturally get higher bonuses than the smaller pulses (instead of this stupid standardization).

[WolvesX]

FupDup, on 04 July 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

PGI felt like making it so all pulse lasers had +20% damage and +25% heat compared to the standard laser of the same class. It's pretty much just because they said so.


Their error is that the LPL requires a much larger weight sacrifice than any other pulse laser, so it should naturally get higher bonuses than the smaller pulses (instead of this stupid standardization).

But still, this is just a horrible idea.

Why should a game balance person think that this is a good idea.

I wanna know.

Also next patch: AC20 is now in line with MG or what?

Edited by WolvesX, 04 July 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[Migwelder]

I can't really see a point to any of the pulse lasers as the extra weight, heat and reduced range removes the advantages to using them. I tried a couple on a cataphract for brawling but soon swapped them for just standard large lasers which have further effective range, less heat generation and weigh less so you can add more heatsinks to improve your heat threshold even more. Yeah, the duration on the pulse lasers is less than normal lasers so the damage is more concentrated but is that worth it the way this game is at the moment?

Pulse lasers for me are another weapon for the garbage pile and even normal lasers are for the most part in this game just a pretty to look at, heat generating lightshow that chips paint when compared to the actual damage weapons, PPC's and AC's.

[Tezcatli]

Hmm. Should I use up an additional 2 tons with additional heat for shorter duration shots and .6 more damage? Nope.

They need to either reduce the tonnage or reduce the heat. It's just not practical.

[WolvesX]

Tezcatli, on 04 July 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Hmm. Should I use up an additional 2 tons with additional heat for shorter duration shots and .6 more damage? Nope.

They need to either reduce the tonnage or reduce the heat. It's just not practical.

So random guy on the internetz why do you know this, and Paul doesn't?

[Chavette]

I heard he got shot by one, really badly.

In his trademark catapult.

[WolvesX]

Chavette, on 04 July 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

I heard he got shot by one, really badly.

In his trademark catapult.

You mean double MG and 4 Medium Pulse Lasers?

[Deathlike]

WolvesX, on 04 July 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

You mean double MG and 4 Medium Pulse Lasers?

Yes, the one with 19 SHS.

If they boosted LPL damage by .6 AND only increased heat by like .2 (from 7.3 to 7.5 instead of 8.5), I wouldn't have been complaining.

However, you know the LPL MUST be hotter than the PPC, for "reasons".

Edited by Deathlike, 04 July 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Not to plug my own thread, but.. Flashback 2012: We Told You So. We Really Did.

3rd issue down in the OP has us way back in 2012 begging PGI not to screw over the LPL. If they had to fix the bug, that's fine, but just make heat comparable to what it was.

Rather than rant the same thing I did last year, I'll just quote myself:

Quote

I read with the DHS change they're planning to nerf Pulse Lasers in the terms of adding more heat to them. Don't do this!

Pulse Lasers finally have hit the sweet spot, in particular Large, where they've gone from worthless to niche to finally a main stream, top tier weapon. Yes, they're very good - that's why I say they're top tier - but I don't mean they're overpowered. They have huge range reductions and massive weight already giving them plenty of drawbacks against regular lasers.

-

Right now it's my strong opinion that no weapons need a nerf right now. Weapons need buffs. If you want to tweak weapon balance, the Ultra AC/5, LBX/10, AC/20, PPC, ER PPC and Flamer, Machine Gun, NARC Launcher and maybe even standard SRMs need your attention badly. They all need buffs to be on the same league as the best weapons in the game right now (Gauss, Large Lasers, Medium Lasers, Streak SRM2s, LRMs and possibly AC/5s now). We really, really do not need the selection of "good weapons" to shrink even more, we need it to grow.

Quote

Exactly my concern. I've been saying how glad I am that Pulse Lasers are back as a viable weapon, esp. the Large Pulse, for weeks now; it's an entire new category of weapon available for competitive play.

They're going to shoot that square in the foot with this.

That's what I was saying way back when it happened. Again, everyone in the thread was saying AMEN.

But clearly, their long time league players are a stupid minority that should be ignored because we can't possibly see what's going to happen to the game (for everyone, no matter the ELO) based on our understanding of both this game, and legacy issues.

3PV and the dumbest alpha strike nerfs ever suggested, here we come! Yeeee-haw.

EDIT: Oh man, you mean the second nerf.. I had forgotten it even took another nerf, because it was already horrendous after this 2012 change.

And people wonder why I don't have faith in our direction or "upcoming aggressive changes" or that Paul being "aware of the situation" means he understands the situation.

They literally nerf'ed a weapon that they nerf'ed out of existence a year prior!

Edited by Victor Morson, 04 July 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[HansBlix WMD]

Victor Morson, on 04 July 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

(Note: the quoted text is from the quote inside the quote)
Right now it's my strong opinion that no weapons need a nerf right now. Weapons need buffs. If you want to tweak weapon balance, the Ultra AC/5, LBX/10, AC/20, PPC, ER PPC and Flamer, Machine Gun, NARC Launcher and maybe even standard SRMs need your attention badly. They all need buffs to be on the same league as the best weapons in the game right now (Gauss, Large Lasers, Medium Lasers, Streak SRM2s, LRMs and possibly AC/5s now). We really, really do not need the selection of "good weapons" to shrink even more, we need it to grow.

Wait - so you're responsible for the current PPC meta?

[WolvesX]

HansBlix WMD, on 04 July 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Wait - so you're responsible for the current PPC meta?

No PGI is, stay on topic Paul needs to explain things here.

[Sumbi]

Drunken people do crazy things...

[Victor Morson]

HansBlix WMD, on 04 July 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Wait - so you're responsible for the current PPC meta?

You might not remember but at this time PPCs hit about as hard as an AC/5 and hit about half as often.

While I was unable to thread necro my posts on PPCs of that era (and believe me, I tried), everyone wanted them to basically give PPCs about a 8 a second cool down and have all their DPS (two shots) front loaded into one - yes, that would be "high alpha" but also, the PPC hit so weakly then that this would really have brought it up to being pretty much an energy AC/10 today. An energy AC/10 doesn't sound too bad, to me.

Instead they buffed the crap out of velocity, left the refire rate fast, increased damage massively per shot and left the fast ROF alone (until minor tweaks later). The reverse of what ANYONE said they wanted.

[TehSBGX]

Pretty sure the whole "Bringing pulse lasers in line" thing is part of a series of tweaks to pulse lasers. Small Pulse got a buff, becuase of this so theres prolly going to be further tweaks on pulses after this. I could be wrong, but this is the only way this could make sense to me, it's part of a series of tweaks.

[HansBlix WMD]

WolvesX, on 04 July 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

No PGI is, stay on topic Paul needs to explain things here.

Ok, sorry!