25 replies to this topic

[Dirus Nigh]

gavilatius, on 21 August 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

whatever happened to "learning"? I guess thats gone now with cookie cutter mechanics and samey color pallets This is my question to you: "When was the last time you ever went through a Tutorial?"

I was thinking this very thing. Almost all first person games I have played in the past six years or so had tutorials I could almost completely ignore. Save one or two commands unique to that game. Arma 2 is the first FPS game in that time, or longer, that I actively went to the tutorial, and played it several times.

Other games are a different story. Kerbal Space program I have done a lot of tutorial searches for. Same with stratagy games like the total warfare series.

A lot of games now integrate the tutorial in the first 10 minutes of game play. Look at Mass effect and Deus Ex Human revolution.

Racing games like Grand Tarismo had expanded tutorial elements to the game. They were set up to teach you how to drive your car, and made it self competitive.

Also the majority of games have a help section in game. Can't figure out how recourse gathering works in Civ? You can click on the help menu. Want to know how to craft in an MMORPG, player journal will have instructions.

For some game like Battlefield, and MWO all I really need to do is look through the commands list in the options menu.

[Xendojo]

3PV is terrible. I get sick just watching OTHER people play in 3PV. Not joking, if i switch to 3PV i get a headache instantly and have to turn it off or i become sick. Even 10 seconds of 3PV and i have to lay down for an hour just to feel right again.

I don't get motion sick (unless i'm trying to read a book in a moving vehicle) usually. I can watch in flight movies no problem. Have no issues with any other motion sickness. Can ride roller coasters, can bungee jump, can ride those slingshot rides with no issues. But literally just a few seconds in a moving mech in 3PV just kills me.

I'm 100% sure this is not a problem with me, but the implementation of 3PV. Never had this problem in any other Mechwarrior 3PV. Also sure i'm not the only person who experiences this.

Bad implementation is bad.

[AC]

Itkovian, on 08 August 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

It's a perfectly valid reason to have third person view. If it smooths the learning curve, it's a good idea. The important point is that it should not harm hardcore play.

Given how 3PV actually has disadvantages, and is actually shown as a sensor system rather than a magical cheating camera, I think it is a rather good implementation. First person view remains fully relevant, and has its own advantages over 3PV.

Now, I personally think 3PV was also implemented to attract the gamers who prefer 3PV in the first place, and I would have liked it that had been acknowledged.

But overall, I think the rage against 3PV is much overblown. MWO is not a simulator, and most mechwarrior games have had 3PV already, so it's nothing surprising. The difference is 3PV seems to be much better implemented in this game, with visual cues and clear disadvantages to driving in 3PV.

I agree with some of what you are saying, but the thing you missed is that in MW4 3PV could be locked out of games. In fact there were entire banks of servers that were first person only and generally had some pretty competitive game play. The jump snipe/pop tart fest that everyone remembers came from the 3rd person mix-tech servers. The ones where people would boat as many clan weapons as they could and play 3rd person so they could look over hills. First person True-Tech had much more diverse game play. MWO already has generic slots that allow massive large weapon boating, and now added 3PV... we are headed back to that poptart/jump snipe fest of the old days. Wasn't it one of their goals to avoid that??

[Enigmos]

Seems to me we had plenty enough of poptarting not so long ago and 3PV clearly had absolutely nothing to do with that.

[DirePhoenix]

AC, on 27 August 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

I agree with some of what you are saying, but the thing you missed is that in MW4 3PV could be locked out of games. In fact there were entire banks of servers that were first person only and generally had some pretty competitive game play. The jump snipe/pop tart fest that everyone remembers came from the 3rd person mix-tech servers. The ones where people would boat as many clan weapons as they could and play 3rd person so they could look over hills. First person True-Tech had much more diverse game play. MWO already has generic slots that allow massive large weapon boating, and now added 3PV... we are headed back to that poptart/jump snipe fest of the old days. Wasn't it one of their goals to avoid that??

Your experience with MW4 multiplayer is completely opposite from mine. Sure, you could find a 1PV server, but I would spend hours in there waiting for enough people to have a match, usually giving up. Meanwhile if I hopped into one of the 3PV No Heat/Unlimited Ammo servers which were in abundance, there was always instantly available players ready and eager to cheese it up. The only way I could get any matches in was if I subjected myself to that style of gameplay, which I do not prefer.

It's frustrating because there are a LOT of people who see MechWarrior (new and old) and think "yeah! Arcade Smash'EmUp Robots!". All they want is big robots and explosions, when there is so much more to be offered. But is it wrong to deny one side or the other? Clearly there are at least two different groups of players that both want a MechWarrior game: The larger group of ArcadeBros that just want to hop in and wreck things, and a smaller group of players that desperately want a deep, rich, and immersive experience. The problem is that the MechWarrior that both parties want is two completely different games. By trying to appease both sides, I think PGI will win over neither.

[Panboy]

DirePhoenix, on 30 August 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

It's frustrating because there are a LOT of people who see MechWarrior (new and old) and think "yeah! Arcade Smash'EmUp Robots!". All they want is big robots and explosions, when there is so much more to be offered. But is it wrong to deny one side or the other? Clearly there are at least two different groups of players that both want a MechWarrior game: The larger group of ArcadeBros that just want to hop in and wreck things, and a smaller group of players that desperately want a deep, rich, and immersive experience. The problem is that the MechWarrior that both parties want is two completely different games. By trying to appease both sides, I think PGI will win over neither.

I don't really think you should try to balance the game for the people who play with cheats locked on. those players really were missing the point of the game.

Its like playing Counter strike with no clip, sure its funny for a while but then you get bored and either do something else or turn the cheats off.