17 replies to this topic

[GazT4R]

One word sums it up, AWFUL.
Mechs drop like flies, far too quickly even on 12 v 12. The old system was far better but hey ho fix something that isn't broke as usual.

[Roland]

It's more likely that they are dying from being hit by 12 mechs, not from crits.

[Sable Dove]

"A good, skill-based convergence system is out of the question, because it would add too much randomness to the game."
"Mechs currently die a bit too quickly."
"Starting now, RANDOM BONUS DAMAGE to internal structure!"

Whose idea was this, and why do they still have a job?

[warner2]

It does seem weird to introduce extra damage at the same time as 12 v 12.

[The Verge]

well, it has made small pulse and MG's much more lethal. perhaps even nerfed the concept of zombie cents.

[Tharkan Stuermer]

GazT4R, on 06 August 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

One word sums it up, AWFUL.
Mechs drop like flies, far too quickly even on 12 v 12. The old system was far better but hey ho fix something that isn't broke as usual.

I agree. Hope they'll re-do the entire patch, and delete it into oblivion.

[Mad Elf]

The guys I drop with discovered a new thing today: MGs have become awesome. When a Spider with 1LL + 4MGs can kill around 400 tons of mech per drop, consistently (over 6 drops), something is wrong.

[Troutmonkey]

Mad Elf, on 06 August 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

The guys I drop with discovered a new thing today: MGs have become awesome. When a Spider with 1LL + 4MGs can kill around 400 tons of mech per drop, consistently (over 6 drops), something is wrong.

Only because Spiders can't be hit. I run the same build in my Cicada-3C and get one hit by about 30 PPCs at once before I can even get in MG range

[Fragger56]

Troutmonkey, on 06 August 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Only because Spiders can't be hit. I run the same build in my Cicada-3C and get one hit by about 30 PPCs at once before I can even get in MG range

Cicadas can't be hit either.
Though they aren't as bad as spiders are when it comes to bad hitreg most of the time, about 25% of the time they go fullretard and manage to do things like eat 4 lb10x shots to the CT inside of 100m and take no damage, and then as they run away to about 300m, erppcs reg perfectly and then the cicada dies.

Back on topic though, the new crit system makes the lb10x actually useful as a brawling weapon compared to the AC10, works wonders for finishing mechs off once you have gotten all the armor stripped.

Edited by Fragger56, 06 August 2013 - 11:25 PM.

[Thorqemada]

I still have no clue what the "New Crits" description on the patchnotes wants to tell me.

[Booran]

I agree the description of the new crit system is confusing. I'd like a concrete example of it doing it's thing, preferably in video form with nice arrows and highlights so I know what's happening. I'm not too good with written illustrations

Haven't seen much change in damage with this new system either, only real change I saw was more Jagers with MGs..

[Sadato]

Mad Elf, on 06 August 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

The guys I drop with discovered a new thing today: MGs have become awesome. When a Spider with 1LL + 4MGs can kill around 400 tons of mech per drop, consistently (over 6 drops), something is wrong.

Mad Elf is correct, but the problem isn't limited to the Spider.

Due to the way the critical system works, huge amounts of damage are being caused to CT internal structure by machine guns (possibly flamers too) due to the fact that the Engine and Gyro pieces of equipment have Health just like any other piece of critical slot equipment.

However unlike every other piece of equipment, the Engine and Gyro are not destroyed when their health reaches zero, which I believe may cause them to continue to take crits after their health has been depleted.

As a test-bed I was using a 6xMG and 2x LPL Jagermech DD, and scored 8 Kills and over 800 damage.

I used the LPL to strip the armour, then opened up with the MG's and watched people get cored within two seconds, sometimes even faster.

Much merriment was had on my part.

Additionally, I managed to have a quick chat with Russ on the NGNG Teamspeak, and he advised me that Paul had already pointed out the problem to them, and they will likely be dialling back the damage transfer percentage.

Don't forget though:

MG's are still pretty much useless until you get someone's armour off. When you do... go nuts!

[Fragger56]

Sadato, on 07 August 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

Additionally, I managed to have a quick chat with Russ on the NGNG Teamspeak, and he advised me that Paul had already pointed out the problem to them, and they will likely be dialling back the damage transfer percentage.

I hope they don't plan on doing an across the board lowering of the crit damage transfer percentage as that would take the LB10X back down into worthlessness while making the flamer and MG decent. PGI needs to think about how gross heavyhanded changes screw with balance and tweak the crit rates on a PER WEAPON basis and ONLY AFTER fixing game breaking issues like hitreg and missile tube issues on the highlander.

[Pinselborste]

it seems more like the new system likes to bug out. hitting an atlas center torso thats on full heath internals with a medium shouldnt turn it red, or hitting a side torso and also destroy the center torso with damage transfer.

[PanzerFurrry]

Sadato, on 07 August 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

Mad Elf is correct, but the problem isn't limited to the Spider. Due to the way the critical system works, huge amounts of damage are being caused to CT internal structure by machine guns (possibly flamers too) due to the fact that the Engine and Gyro pieces of equipment have Health just like any other piece of critical slot equipment. However unlike every other piece of equipment, the Engine and Gyro are not destroyed when their health reaches zero, which I believe may cause them to continue to take crits after their health has been depleted.

I was under the impression that Gyro and Engine cannot be crited at all, weapon will only damage the internal structure and if crit occurs with no equipment in that slot other than engine, that crit will go to waste. So the only way to destroy the engine is to destroy the whole internal structure of CT.
Unless they changed the way how crits work and you get a damage transfer back to the internal structure, even though you didn't damage the engine. Not sure what is the case here.
Anyway, that crit mechanic is vague.

Edited by PanzerFurrry, 07 August 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[DYSEQTA]

I have a BJ-1 with 2 x LPL, 2 x MG, and 2 x Flamer. Since this patch I finally felt that there was a point to my use of MGs and Flamers.

I still have an issue with flamers though: Why do flamers cause heat? They eject engine plasma apparently so, if anything, they should remove heat... but I personally think they should be heat-less.

[Asmosis]

Roland, on 06 August 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

It's more likely that they are dying from being hit by 12 mechs, not from crits.

This.

The new crit system did *not* add much in the way of damage. What does it mean?

you have a 25% chance of dealing 115% damage to internal structure instead of 100%
you have a 14% chance of dealing 130% damage to internal structure instead of 100%
you have a 3% chance of dealing 145% damage to internal structure instead of 100%

overall its a ~9% damage increase to internals, more for the underpowered crit seeking weapons like MG's or LBX.

As far as engines go, they take criticals but can't be destroyed. Whether they have health or not is a bit irrelevant at that point since they don't stop taking criticals at all. This might not seem like a problem, but it does give any other items in your CT or side torso's (for XL) bonus crit protection.

*edit*

Its always possible theres bugs that are causing more damage than mentioned above ofc. (think of the missile roller coaster ride).

Edited by Asmosis, 07 August 2013 - 05:41 PM.

[Pinselborste]

its pretty sure bugged sometimes, had several situation where it was 1vs1 at the end and lots of weird stuff hapened like oneshotting an atlas with a med laser, or all locations destroyed after hitting someone in the unarmored arm.