40 replies to this topic

[Sephlock]

When Alpine first came out, I said some harsh things.

Truth be told, I still don't like the map, but nonetheless I now realize that I owe the people who made that map an apology, since it is very clear now that I was wrong.

Alpine is NOT the worst possible MW:O map.

Terra is ten thousand times worse.

At least on Alpine I could theoretically go to the left and die to an 8 man firing squad instead of heading to the right and missing their team entirely, resulting in a cap race.

On Terra, no matter which way I go, it is overwhelmingly probable that I will not run into anyone, and if I am not in a fast mech, the match will end before I've fired a shot.

I genuinely look back upon my past self and laugh at how naïve I was, to think that a big open map was the worst that it could get.

Oh past Sephlock, if you only knew...

[VATER]

L2P...much?....

[Sephlock]

WHERE ARE YOU, OTHER TEAM?!

[VATER]

You my young Padawan do not seem to know the old MW4:Maps, where you could spent an hour hunting each other...silly people.

Personally, I prefer big freaking maps...but I agree, noobrushing becomes much harder.

[Sephlock]

VATER, on 05 August 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

You my young Padawan do not seem to know the old MW4:Maps, where you could spent an hour hunting each other...silly people.

Personally, I prefer big freaking maps...but I agree, noobrushing becomes much harder.

It does?

[Sephlock]

[MeiSooHaityu]

Although I do agree that Terra needs some work, I still feel that Alpine is the worst map. Say what you will about Terra and it's size and many paths, it has some sort of pathing to it. Alpine is just a large flat map with a mountain and a ridge.

This map is anti meta, and because of that, this map is not most people's favorite. Doesn't mean it is a bad map, just means it doesn't play to most people's play styles and loadouts.

* Map is too large for assaults and slow heavies (50% of a team's loadout or higher), so they can't respond to base cap if they wonder too far away
* Map is very hot, making it hard for boaters to fire
* Map has a lot of pathing and cover which makes LRMs and sniping weapons more difficult to use.

This map favors lighter mechs that are more heat neutral. It is a bear for higher heat alpha assaults and by the comments, that shows. I'm not much of a light pilot (more of a heavy pilot), so I sympathize a bit, but you can't make every map favor assault play. Plus, when they do add more mechs, I think it will help a bit.

I think longer base capping might help on larger maps and it might not be a bad idea to pick your mech per map. These are all game function issues and not map design. Atleast people could pick the faster responding mechs for this map.

Other then some collision bugs, this map is fine, but it doesn't play to 75% of the player base's play style, and that is why people hate it.

Just my opinion, I'm sure many will chime in and disagree with me. It just seems to be what I am seeing.

[Sephlock]

MeiSooHaityu, on 06 August 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Although I do agree that Terra needs some work, I still feel that Alpine is the worst map. Say what you will about Terra and it's size and many paths, it has some sort of pathing to it. Alpine is just a large flat map with a mountain and a ridge.

Fair enough, but the flip side of that coin is that you can actually find your enemies- even in Alpine matches that devolve into base races, you at least have the idea that "hey, if they didn't go left, obviously they went right!"

As opposed to:

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This map is anti meta, and because of that, this map is not most people's favorite. Doesn't mean it is a bad map, just means it doesn't play to most people's play styles and loadouts.

Or, you know... shooting at other mechs.

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* Map is too large for assaults and slow heavies (50% of a team's loadout or higher),

That right there is unacceptable, btw. It is true that the current meta is too assault/heavy oriented. The way to fix this is not to introduce maps where those mechs are unplayable.

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so they can't respond to base cap if they wonder too far away

This can be a problem even for lighter mechs, since they get further away from the base faster. Also, if they RTB and find they are outnumbered, they are SOL. Oh boy.

Of course, most lights know this, and are so close to the enemy base in any event that it turns into a base race.

[Henchman 24]

The map would be fine if it were more perfectly mated to one of the various game modes and restricted to it....

oh wait, we only have two broken game modes? Riiiiiight.

Honestly I think it's a gorgeous map, if you like sitting on your base waiting for the other team for 6 minutes or so, because let's face it....there's no compelling reason to go anywhere, knowing you could easily be skirted and quick capped. The center area is pretty, but again, no reason besides maybe LRM boating to go there.

I won't even go into the ****-poor lighting during combat(super bright lasers that only serve to pierce the blackness in a blinding manner + PGI's excessive smoke = W.T.F. am I shooting at/? And don't hope for much help from the augmented vision modes either, one is completely useless due to the ambient temp.

Which brings up another thought. What the heck is with all the extreme environment maps being on the short dev list?

Is there something wrong with the 100 or so planets that can actually support life? You know the ones that have more than just raw resources? If you look at the number of extreme to normal planets...you have to think....what's with these choices?

Anyway...I think the map is only so bad on it's own...put it in a broken gametype and suddenly it's Boredor™!

[Sephlock]

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* Map is very hot, making it hard for boaters to fire

I will accept that the excruciatingly stupid boaters are suffering on hot maps. Those who have more than two brain cells to rub together simply pause a bit more between shots, since EVERYONE has higher heat- including enemy mechs. If anything, this can help boaters because they can more reliably land alpha strikes where they want to because

1: They are not being shot at as often or as continuously so it is easier to take your time to line up a shot

2: Their enemies may shut down, making it insanely easy to land a headshot or other precision shot

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* Map has a lot of pathing and cover which makes LRMs and sniping weapons more difficult to use.

It does? I guess it makes LRMs harder to use if you don't position yourself properly (this admittedly would require a mech like a catapult- with JJs, the tonnage to carry enough LRMs, hopefully a tag laser, and of course good map awareness). But sniping weapons don't seem hard to use on the map at all- except in situations where you are rounding a corner and the ******* invisible walls eat your alpha strike, then you take 1 more step and eat 3 enemy alpha strikes for your trouble.

If anything, while it may be bothersome to FIND an opponent, once he is in your sights there isn't much he can do besides literally backing off. Then it's pretty much:

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This map favors lighter mechs that are more heat neutral. It is a bear for higher heat alpha assaults and by the comments, that shows. I'm not much of a light pilot (more of a heavy pilot), so I sympathize a bit, but you can't make every map favor assault play.

True, and a fair point, but this is a bit too much...

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Plus, when they do add more mechs, I think it will help a bit.

Explain, please.

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I think longer base capping might help on larger maps

It would have to be long enough that perfectly valid basecapping attempts would be rendered untenable, and knowing PGI that is exactly what will happen: they'll turn it up to 4000% and no one will ever cap a base ever again.

Also, INB4 some mouth breather posts a picture of a cat with "GOOD!" superimposed on it.

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and it might not be a bad idea to pick your mech per map. These are all game function issues and not map design. Atleast people could pick the faster responding mechs for this map.

I agree with this and in fact something along those lines is coming (albeit at the expense of the fun dropship mode. The problem is that this will turn every match on Terra into Mario Kart, minus the fun.

It also could turn every match into SUPER ULTRA MEGA baseraces instead of just regular base races .

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Other then some collision bugs, this map is fine, but it doesn't play to 75% of the player base's play style, and that is why people hate it.

That may be the reason some people hate it but it is not the only reason to hate it.

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Just my opinion, I'm sure many will chime in and disagree with me. It just seems to be what I am seeing.

Fair enough.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Sephlock, sorry I didn't quote your response, but everything is getting so broken up in quotes, it is hard to respond properly LOL.

The map does seem to go against the main loadouts people are dropping with. I know you made the rather snarky remark about "Or, you know... shooting at other mechs.", but not every map can play to one style or loadout. Some maps are hot, some cold, some wide open, some very cover based. Also, some maps are small and some are large. Maps are done diffenetly in this game to make players play different.

I have a Splatcat, but I will never argure that maps aren't small enough. A smaller map would make closing distances easier (and less chance of me getting caught out in the open), but I know if I am in a Splat, and I am on Alpine, I am going to have a rough time. Now slower moving machines with heat are going to have a harder time on this map. You say this is unacceptable, and unplayable, but really this just means tactics might need to change.

The biggest thing I see is that people are more against the mechanics than the map design. People don't like getting base capped and are arguing that the map is too big. This has been an argument for all maps in this game for as long as I can recall.

The longer base caps would allow teams to respond on these bigger maps and guess what, the team will find each other at that point. If not, then it is a base race. I have been on plenty of these in Alpine, Canyon, and River City. This is not exclusively a Terra problem.

Overall, most complaints are about the games assault mechanics and not as much really poor map design. I'm not saying this map is perfect...Haha..No. It just isn't this terrible broken heap many make it out to be. It doesn't play to some peoples strengths, and they want PGI to make a game how they play it, so this map must be changed to suit the Assault crowd.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 06 August 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[General Taskeen]

MW:LL's large maps and Terrain Control Game Mode got your back bro. Get rolled by a face full of fire from 8 Mechs? No Problem. Respawn at Mech Hanger main base, and attempt to counter-attack and control a different part of the map. Even if you lose, it's a helluva lot of fun trying different approaches to reconquer the map.

Edited by General Taskeen, 06 August 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[Bront]

Alpine Mountains needs a starting point swap. Other than that, it's fine, with plenty of places to take high ground, low ground, and mix it up.

Terra Therma is fine as well (once they get the buggs out of it). Sure, it's large, and there are many different ways to go, but once everyone gets used to the map, and now with 12v12, you'll get a more spread out battle where positioning is important, and base awareness is key in Assault, and in Capture, it's already fun if you have a good mix of mechs (and tonnage distribution is being worked on to help fix that). A fast assault has an advantage on that map, (As opposed to River City or Forrest Colony, where that advantage is nullified somewhat), so you start to have maps that support different playstyles.

Most of the cap issues on TT are players being dumb. If you don't want to deal with the base objective, ask for a death match mode (which will be all assaults and heavies, and boring), otherwise, learn how to play towards objectives and win.

[Khanublikhan]

I don't agree that Terra Therma is necessarily any better for Light Mechs. The entire map is comprised of 'V' shaped valleys. If you encounter enemies you have to:-

• run through your opponents, under fire.
  
• turn tail, expose your back and hightail it back the way you came, under fire.

Escape options (breaking line of sight, vertical escapes, etc) are in scant supply. You will lose armour doing so.

The 'V' shaped valleys, for all their twists and turns imho make this an Assault Mech map (I just played it on 12v12 and 4 Atlai vs 1 Spider (me) is a tall ask... )

[Sug]

So many videos in this thread.

[Sephlock]

Khanublikhan, on 06 August 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I don't agree that Terra Therma is necessarily any better for Light Mechs. The entire map is comprised of 'V' shaped valleys. If you encounter enemies you have to:-

• run through your opponents, under fire.
  
• turn tail, expose your back and hightail it back the way you came, under fire.

Escape options (breaking line of sight, vertical escapes, etc) are in scant supply. You will lose armour doing so.

The 'V' shaped valleys, for all their twists and turns imho make this an Assault Mech map (I just played it on 12v12 and 4 Atlai vs 1 Spider (me) is a tall ask... )

On the plus side, we are one step closer to this:

Sug, on 06 August 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

So many videos in this thread.

.

Edited by Sephlock, 06 August 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[Sug]

Sephlock, on 06 August 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

On the plus side, we are one step closer to this.

Best ending ever.

Always thought it was weird that you ended that game (successfully) on a boat with a martini. Like, why didn't you just sell your mech at the beginning of the game and do that? Even that Commando was worth a couple mill.

[Sporklift]

Guess what...

- Assault mode base captures now take longer.

[Steelgrave]

[Sephlock]

Sug, on 06 August 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Best ending ever.

Always thought it was weird that you ended that game (successfully) on a boat with a martini. Like, why didn't you just sell your mech at the beginning of the game and do that? Even that Commando was worth a couple mill.

Getting there is one thing, staying there is another.

Gotta get enough c-bills in the bank.