47 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Sephlock, on 09 August 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

This never, ever works for me, because when I pug I consistently end up on the same team as 11 of these guys:



And we lose to either basecap or roflstomp, resulting in me getting no assists >_<.

How could you possibly lose with a team of that Black Ops guy? He was awesome!!!

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 August 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

Though this might work. Is gaming the system really playing MechWarrior El? If you like playing the game and have fun, killing 1 and assisting on 3, should be good enough. Have you tried an Alt account to see how fast a New player can earn the scratch for a personal Mech? That is the true better test on how borked the economy is.

There is no simple answer to this Joseph so I'll try to explain it as clearly as possible.

1. As for having fun, I stopped having fun with MWO since July. I am just fed up with the direction it is going, the bugs, the hit-reg fail, the stupid heat rework etc... Mostly I stopped having fun due to to the fact that it is the same bloody death match every single game. I don't play at all, now. This trick is for those who are still playing.

2. As for gaming the system, I played a lot of Borderlands 2 this year. I finished it with every character, multiple times. After 6 months of intense play, the fun is pretty much gone, only the grind remains for weapons I do not possess. Instead of spending hours and hours to grind for items for a game I no longer have fun with, I simply got them all through a third party program. No sweat. I believe there is a line between fun grind and tedious grind.

3. Gaming the system for your benefit is actually fun in itself. For example, in Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries, I intentionally stripped all armor for my mechs' arms since the arms are very easy to get shot off and repairing them was too costly. Costly repairs are NOT FUN, so I never repaired it. I finished the entire game with armless mechs, multiple times and it was fun. (Similar thing happened in MWO back when R&R was in closed Beta)
Same deal in this situation. Playing with reduced rewards is not fun, especially because the gameplay itself is severely lacking currently, in my opinion.

4. As I mentioned before, this trick will not be huge detriment to your team, like suicide rush is. You can still get multiple kills and assists and big damage without dying. YOU ARE PLAYING THE GAME.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 August 2013 - 06:15 AM.

[DaZur]

Interesting... I was able to accomplish "almost" this same thing by just playing normally and not gaming the game.

Not sure what ticks me off more... ​Someone exploiting the game mechanics for personal gain or someone exploiting the game to justify a means.

In this case you doing / advocating both.

Edited by DaZur, 09 August 2013 - 06:19 AM.

[stjobe]

Everyone that's aware of how the reward system works have already been "exploiting" Savior bonuses - hell, in my lights it's just about the only way to get any substantial XP rewards.

This is just taking it one step further and "exploiting" the fact that the Savior bonuses trigger even if the 'mech the target is firing on is your own (which in my opinion it shouldn't do, as per the patch note wording and the meaning of the word "savior").

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 09 August 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

There is no simple answer to this Joseph so I'll try to explain it as clearly as possible.

1. As for having fun, I stopped having fun with MWO since July. I am just fed up with the direction it is going, the bugs, the hit-reg fail, the stupid heat rework etc... Mostly I stopped having fun due to to the fact that it is the same bloody death match every single game. I don't play at all, now. This trick is for those who are still playing.

2. As for gaming the system, I played a lot of Borderlands 2 this year. I finished it with every character, multiple times. After 6 months of intense play, the fun is pretty much gone, only the grind remains for weapons I do not possess. Instead of spending hours and hours to grind for items for a game I no longer have fun with, I simply got them all through a third party program. No sweat. I believe there is a line between fun grind and tedious grind.

3. Gaming the system for your benefit is actually fun in itself. For example, in Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries, I intentionally stripped all armor for my mechs' arms since the arms are very easy to get shot off and repairing them was too costly. Costly repairs are NOT FUN, so I never repaired it. I finished the entire game with armless mechs, multiple times and it was fun. (Similar thing happened in MWO back when R&R was in closed Beta)
Same deal in this situation. Playing with reduced rewards is not fun, especially because the gameplay itself is severely lacking currently, in my opinion.

4. As I mentioned before, this trick will not be huge detriment to your team, like suicide rush is. You can still get multiple kills and assists and big damage without dying. YOU ARE PLAYING THE GAME.

But this is the same as the 75% ammo for free exploit during R & R. Its just tacky. I have to agree with DaZur, Sorry man.

And Thanks to StJobe I now feel dirty for every Savior bonus I have gotten to date!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 August 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[El Bandito]

DaZur, on 09 August 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

Interesting... I was able to accomplish "almost" this same thing by just playing normally and not gaming the game. Not sure what ticks me off more... ​Someone exploiting the game mechanics for personal gain or someone exploiting the game to justify a means. In this case you doing / advocating both.

What do I get out of this? I don't play MWO anymore. Justifying a means through exploiting doesn't even make sense, in context. Exploiting is the means.

Joseph Mallan, on 09 August 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

But this is the same as the 75% ammo for free exploit during R & R. Its just tacky. I have to agree with DaZur, Sorry man.

You think 75% free ammo made the game less fun and was harmful? Especially during a period of time when the hit-registration was even more borked than today, and people could lose more money than they earned?

Edited by El Bandito, 09 August 2013 - 06:33 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Purposely weakening your Mech to earn a bonus you should not be getting is exploiting the game.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 August 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Purposely weakening your Mech to earn a bonus you should not be getting is exploiting the game.

Did you read my posts? I did agree that it was an exploit (albeit a minor one), back in page one. Let it go.

Besides, I should be getting the bonus since I fulfilled all the conditions for it. The Savior bonus had been implemented since March. If PGI didn't like the way it worked, they would have done something about it by now. Cause it is easy to change.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 August 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Alistair Winter, on 09 August 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

El Bandito, what do you need all this money for? You've been a member since closed beta, you should have at least two of every mech variant in your mech bay by now

Despite all my Founder bonuses and sh*t, I am now a space poor.

Well, I own over a dozen of mechs, but I have about 2,000,000 C-Bills right now.
I might not have played enough, not been good enough, I don't care, but I could still use money.

I certainly don't play enough right now to earn any money. And I am not gonna buy any MC unless something on the balance front improves significantly and indicates a systemic improvement.

Though even if I played, I wouldn't use this exploit or any other to inflate my numbers, either. The focus of playing would still be fun, not C-Bill grind. But I completely understand people that grind C-Bills and do whatever it takes to speed that up.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 09 August 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[DaZur]

El Bandito, on 09 August 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

What do I get out of this? I don't play MWO anymore. Justifying a means through exploiting doesn't even make sense, in context. Exploiting is the means.

My apologies but gaming the game to offset a game-mechanic one does not agree with is justifying the means.

It's the equivalent of siphoning gas because the cost of gas is too high...

[El Bandito]

DaZur, on 09 August 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

My apologies but gaming the game to offset a game-mechanic one does not agree with is justifying the means. It's the equivalent of siphoning gas because the cost of gas is too high...

That's not justifying the means. That is just simple exploiting (again, a minor one).

By your logic macros should not be in this game, because I don't agree with .5 second forced chain fire window?

Low resolution option should not be in this game because I don't agree with trees blocking my view?

Contrast and brightness option should not be in this game because I don't agree with River City Night?

Zig zagging should not be in this game because I don't agree with getting stuck on than 45 degree slope?

Edited by El Bandito, 09 August 2013 - 07:08 AM.

[Sephlock]

El Bandito, on 09 August 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

3. Gaming the system for your benefit is actually fun in itself. For example, in Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries, I intentionally stripped all armor for my mechs' arms since the arms are very easy to get shot off and repairing them was too costly. Costly repairs are NOT FUN, so I never repaired it. I finished the entire game with armless mechs, multiple times and it was fun. (Similar thing happened in MWO back when R&R was in closed Beta)

[DaZur]

El Bandito, on 09 August 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

That's not justifying the means. That is just simple exploiting (again, a minor one).

By your logic macros should not be in this game, because I don't agree with .5 second forced chain fire window?

Low resolution option should not be in this game because I don't agree with trees blocking my view?

LOL! You're generalizing to deflect ...

Your examples affect game-play but do not circumvent the game mechanics to net profit directly like your savior suggestion. Yes... higher DPS and LoS indirectly may afford improved chances of winning... but they in and of themselves do not net profit through manipulating the reimbursement mechanics.

Your trying to justify manipulating a economic mechanic because the value of a c-bill took a nosedive.

Edited by DaZur, 09 August 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[El Bandito]

DaZur, on 09 August 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

LOL! You're generalizing to deflect ... Your examples affect game-play but do not circumvent the game mechanics to net profit directly like your savior suggestion. Yes... higher DPS and LoS indirectly may afford improved chances of winning... but they in and of themselves do not net profit through manipulating the reimbursement mechanics. Your trying to justify manipulating a economic mechanic because the value of a c-bill took a nosedive.

Well, we can talk about it all day since I want this thread to get maximum exposure through bumping it. I am just pointing out the fact that by your logic macro is an exploit--no matter how it is tied to C-Bills.

Technically, my method does not net profit directly like you said because you need to get damaged first in the right place and survive long enough to reap the rewards. Skill, chance, all factor into this.

This is not an "I get free money now" button.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 August 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Riogar Daylighter]

El Bandito, on 09 August 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Well, we can talk about it all day since I want this thread to get maximum exposure through bumping it. I am just pointing out the fact that by your logic macro is an exploit--no matter how it is tied to C-Bills.

Technically, my method does not net profit directly like you said because you need to get damaged first in the right place and survive long enough to reap the rewards. Skill, chance, all factor into this.

This is not an &quot;I get free money now&quot; button.

So instead of being a lazy cheater, your being a skillful cheater.

[El Bandito]

Riogar Daylighter, on 09 August 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

So instead of being a lazy cheater, your being a skillful cheater.

See this is what I don't get about people. Exploiting and cheating are two different things.

Cheating is when I am somehow using infinite ammo/no heat/God-mode in MWO or entering "greedisgood" code.
Exploiting is what I showed you in the opening post.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 August 2013 - 07:44 AM.

[Riogar Daylighter]

El Bandito, on 09 August 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

See this is what I don't get about people. Exploiting and cheating are two different things.

Cheating is when I am somehow using infinite ammo/no heat/God-mode in MWO or entering &quot;greedisgood&quot; code.
Exploiting is what I showed you in the opening post.

This is an excerpt from Wikipedia which I know is not a divinitive all knowing accurate website but here it is

"Whether an exploit is considered a cheat, or all exploits are cheats, is a matter of widespread debate that varies between genres, games, and other factors. The distinction is important as it decides how the developers and community responds to the issue and to the players who exploit the issue. On the one hand exploits can be considered illegitimate cheats that the developers should address and exploiters should be banned, while on the other hand exploits can be considered simply part of the game.
Arguments in favor of the cheating view involve the spirit of the game and the potentially damaging effects of the exploit on the game's community.[3][4] While the rules or game code may not explicitly disallow a specific exploit, it may be seen that using that exploit goes against the spirit of the game.[3] The potential damage of an exploit on a game has been described by a World of Warcraft community manager as "devastating".[4]
In defense of these behaviors are arguments that the rules of the game allow it and that players might not know they are behaving against the designer's intention.[5][6] So-called exploits, in this view, are not cheats because they do not change the game in any way and therefore could be accessible to all players if they know how to do it.[2] The players who use such techniques may consider them fair for use in the game in cases when they are not explicitly disallowed in the Terms of Service or other such rules governing participation.[5]"

After all that I believe you are cheating. I believe your account should be disciplined.

[El Bandito]

Riogar Daylighter, on 09 August 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

This is an excerpt from Wikipedia which I know is not a divinitive all knowing accurate website but here it is "Whether an exploit is considered a cheat, or all exploits are cheats, is a matter of widespread debate that varies between genres, games, and other factors. The distinction is important as it decides how the developers and community responds to the issue and to the players who exploit the issue. On the one hand exploits can be considered illegitimate cheats that the developers should address and exploiters should be banned, while on the other hand exploits can be considered simply part of the game. Arguments in favor of the cheating view involve the spirit of the game and the potentially damaging effects of the exploit on the game's community.[3][4] While the rules or game code may not explicitly disallow a specific exploit, it may be seen that using that exploit goes against the spirit of the game.[3] The potential damage of an exploit on a game has been described by a World of Warcraft community manager as "devastating".[4] In defense of these behaviors are arguments that the rules of the game allow it and that players might not know they are behaving against the designer's intention.[5][6] So-called exploits, in this view, are not cheats because they do not change the game in any way and therefore could be accessible to all players if they know how to do it.[2] The players who use such techniques may consider them fair for use in the game in cases when they are not explicitly disallowed in the Terms of Service or other such rules governing participation.[5]" After all that I believe you are cheating. I believe your account should be disciplined.

So you think I am cheating? I don't think so. As the material you quoted clearly states, my method

1. Is part of the game. Specifically, armor allocation.

2. The game rules or devs did not specifically forbid it.

Do you even read what you quote?

Edited by El Bandito, 09 August 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[Riogar Daylighter]

El Bandito, on 09 August 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

So you think I am cheating? I don't think so. As the material you quoted clearly states, my method

1. Is part of the game. Specifically, armor allocation.

2. The game rules or devs did not specifically forbid it.

Do you even read what you quote?

Read the terms of service you agreed to cheater.

Edited by Riogar Daylighter, 09 August 2013 - 08:06 AM.

[DONTOR]

I dont think the method is cheesy at all its quite savvy. A+ for thinking outside of the box!