22 replies to this topic

[GODzillaGSPB]

Because why would they? Capping in conquest is now so slow, everyone just forms the assault-blob and then there's the big mayem in the middle of the map. The side with the biggest mace wins.

What was the logic behind makign the cap slower...in conquest???

[Charons Little Helper]

Because of it shifting to 12 v 12 and therefore battles take longer. I agree with it slowing a bit, but I agree that they likely went a bit too far.

[Joseph Mallan]

GODzillaGSPB, on 09 August 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Because why would they? Capping in conquest is now so slow, everyone just forms the assault-blob and then there's the big mayem in the middle of the map. The side with the biggest mace wins.

What was the logic behind makign the cap slower...in conquest???

But we wanted team death match... didn't we? Cause Capping is for sissies! Right?

[Yankee77]

Strange, I'm seeing the complete opposite.

Of all the conquests I've done since 12v12, only 1 ended in a complete wipe of the enemy team. All others ended with someone reaching 750 ressources.

With all those mechs running around, including more lights/fast mediums, trying to wipe the enemy team to secure the win is no longer very viable, except MAYBE on the smaller maps (and in that case you better hope your team seriously dominates the other team's brawlers, because if you don't have many left good luck capping in time to win).

It's interesting, looking at these forums, how widely varied some people's experiences can be.

[Whyte Wolf]

Now we're complaining there's not ENOUGH capping. I can't even with you guys anymore.

[Yankee77]

Whyte Wolf, on 09 August 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

Now we're complaining there's not ENOUGH capping. I can't even with you guys anymore.

It's a gaming forum.

Remember that gaming forums are primarily used to complain about things. So it doesn't matter what changes the devs of ANY games do, SOME people will be pissed off by them and will go and post their complaint.

It's just how it is, unfortunately. Nowadays if you judge a game's quality by the tone of a game's forum, you'll quickly think every game sucks.

That's not even counting the trolls who poison all gaming communities.

[New Day]

Whyte Wolf, on 09 August 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

Now we're complaining there's not ENOUGH capping. I can't even with you guys anymore.

bEacuse

Whyte Wolf, on 09 August 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

Now we're complaining there's not ENOUGH capping. I can't even with you guys anymore.

Because PGI once again took out the Nerfhammer on the wrong thing.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 August 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

But we wanted team death match... didn't we? Cause Capping is for sissies! Right?

Yes...in the assault mode. Guess it's another testimony of how good "PGI listens".

[-Natural Selection-]

Itkovian, on 09 August 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

It's a gaming forum.

Remember that gaming forums are primarily used to complain about things. So it doesn't matter what changes the devs of ANY games do, SOME people will be pissed off by them and will go and post their complaint.

It's just how it is, unfortunately. Nowadays if you judge a game's quality by the tone of a game's forum, you'll quickly think every game sucks.

That's not even counting the trolls who poison all gaming communities.

Why? Bacuse they give you "game-feedback" in the tickets system. And then you get this as a responce:

Hello Dozier,


Your feedback and suggestions are appreciated! However to better reach the developers with your ideas and suggestions, please post here: [color="#b27204"]http://mwomercs.com/forums/forum/35-polling-suggestions/[/color]

Please be aware that even though the devs do read the forums and especially the suggestions one, they rarely reply to any thread so they can concentrate on actually building the game. Also, the community representatives read all forum posts and compile then send to the devs the most relevant and constructive feedback on a weekly basis.

As one can imagine, if the devs start responding to everything, it would become a never-ending back and forth, and game development itself would suffer because of this.



Regards,
XXXXXXX

[FatBabyThompkins]

It is my WAG that they increased the cap times in conquest to promote the wolf pack, incentivize light mechs and to give light mechs something more to do (sit in the square). Wolf packs are cool. I can kind of understand that, but that is just fewer people at the blob that meets the inevitable blob at Theta. I do not agree that it incentivizes light mech play, however, because who wants to sit on a square for several minutes? And if the lights are not equally rewarded for their CapWarrior movements, then they'll just stop capping.

Once games reach the 500 mark, the outcome is almost inevitable. A single light mech, even with cap accelerator, takes several minutes to swing a cap. That is some significant output during the cap process.

My only suggestion would be to stop resource generation of a cap point while an enemy mech is within the bounds, much like one friendly can stop a cap in Assault. At the very least, increase the cap rate in Conquest. No pilot wants to sit on a point for 3 min (1/5 of the entire match or as much as 1/2 if it concludes sooner) while they watch their team dying or getting glory.

[TexAce]

There is no reason to slow down capping in conquest.

Think about it, how would the game be if capping would be even faster in conquest? Play it through in your head and you will realize that it would actually help the game.

[Darius Deadeye]

Itkovian, on 09 August 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Strange, I'm seeing the complete opposite.

Of all the conquests I've done since 12v12, only 1 ended in a complete wipe of the enemy team. All others ended with someone reaching 750 ressources.

With all those mechs running around, including more lights/fast mediums, trying to wipe the enemy team to secure the win is no longer very viable, except MAYBE on the smaller maps (and in that case you better hope your team seriously dominates the other team's brawlers, because if you don't have many left good luck capping in time to win).

It's interesting, looking at these forums, how widely varied some people's experiences can be.

This as well. I rarely see a conquest match end by a wipe after 12vs12 was introduced.

[Shadey99]

lol, it kills light mech play... It's boring and unrewarding to stand in a square for minutes (in even pairs). And god forbid you go capping as a light (or a Cicada), then your whole team dies while your gone off capping and a ton of enemies descend on you...

I've been in a wolf pack before and it didn't help... we got steam rolled by a larger wolf pack... 3 of us versus 6 of them. I got 2, and each person with me got 1... Leaving 2 lights to go help their larger mechs. They won by the way by capping.

If capping speed in conquest was the same, we'd have lots of light on light action as people try to _hold_ caps and not just the one in the middle. 12v12 was finally enough to have a real fight over multiple caps. If anything the point victory total should have been raised.

& for the record I see (or perform) alot of non-cap victories in conquest.

Edited by Shadey99, 09 August 2013 - 01:16 PM.

[Ashnod]

Shadey99, on 09 August 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

lol, it kills light mech play... It's boring and unrewarding to stand in a square for minutes (in even pairs). And god forbid you go capping as a light (or a Cicada), then your whole team dies while your gone off capping and a ton of enemies descend on you...

I've been in a wolf pack before and it didn't help... we got steam rolled by a larger wolf pack... 3 of us versus 6 of them. I got 2, and each person with me got 1... Leaving 2 lights to go help their larger mechs. They won by the way by capping.

If capping speed in conquest was the same, we'd have lots of light on light action as people try to _hold_ caps and not just the one in the middle. 12v12 was finally enough to have a real fight over multiple caps. If anything the point victory total should have been raised.

& for the record I see (or perform) alot of non-cap victories in conquest.

qft

[GODzillaGSPB]

Shadey99, on 09 August 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

lol, it kills light mech play... It's boring and unrewarding to stand in a square for minutes (in even pairs). And god forbid you go capping as a light (or a Cicada), then your whole team dies while your gone off capping and a ton of enemies descend on you...

I've been in a wolf pack before and it didn't help... we got steam rolled by a larger wolf pack... 3 of us versus 6 of them. I got 2, and each person with me got 1... Leaving 2 lights to go help their larger mechs. They won by the way by capping.

If capping speed in conquest was the same, we'd have lots of light on light action as people try to _hold_ caps and not just the one in the middle. 12v12 was finally enough to have a real fight over multiple caps. If anything the point victory total should have been raised.

& for the record I see (or perform) alot of non-cap victories in conquest.

I wonder how that wolf-pack-thing happened. Maybe because cap takes longer the amount of lights easily tripled while there are just 33% more mechs on the field. Strange, strange...

I gotta admit though, that with just 12 vs 12 in mind, the change made sense...if they had introduced a weight limit. Yes, I do see those large wolf-packs of lights, but most of the time the lances drop super-heavy. So that leaves the same or maybe even less cap-capable mechs on the field as ever before. Hell there where matches I had to go cap in my rather slow medium because I was the fastest (with 80kph).

When they add weight-limit I will definitely reassess the situation and like I change, it might work then. But it is not working right now. Right now it's another incentive to play Conquest like Assault.

[Tatula]

Maybe PGI's cap timer runs off a single sub-routine/module, that's why when they change the timer, it affected both Assault and Conquest. Come on PGI. Don't be lazy!

[Tezcatli]

The cap speed was changed in response to all of the complaints about capping. Though admittedly it does take quite a while now.

[DemonRaziel]

As I mentioned in another thread, I think I understand their reasoning: more 'Mechs possibly means more Lights and that might end in a too fast caps.

But, as usual, they didn't look at the big picture and didn't take all the factors into account:

- Lights now have to stay longer on the bases which keeps them out of the (real) game for longer; this drastically reduces the amount of money a light 'Mech can earn trough pretty much any means (other than resources, salvage and win/loss bonus that all the players get)
- it also gives the big guys more time to dish it out at Theta before the surivors get to capping
- it gives the big guys more time to intercept the Light 'Mech and/or more time to shoot at it, while he's trying to cap a base

So all in all this change hurts Lights the most, obviously. PGIs attempts to incentivize playing lighter 'Mechs are getting undermined by their own actions... again.

FatBabyThompkins, on 09 August 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

It is my WAG that they increased the cap times in conquest to promote the wolf pack, incentivize light mechs and to give light mechs something more to do (sit in the square).

Umm... I sure hope not, because that would be the most pathetic attempt at incentivizing anything I have ever seen (maybe after Ghost Heat). First of all, when you, as a Heavy have more time to stop Lights from capping, why would you be tempted to play said Light? Secondly, what about PUGs? If you are the lone Light in a game, you are pretty much done for... Capping bases will take you so long, that you are not going to contribute to your team in any other way and if your team gets stomped all your work will be for naught.

And in the end, you'll earn pitiful wage for all your efforts anyway.

[Ralgas]

because capping and holding 3 points puts a decent (see long but not rushed) time limit on closer matchups? brawling over kappa on canyon network is actually fun? stops 4 man light teams playing capwarrior?

ofc it mean prying people out of ppc/gauss setups, which at some elo's level appears to be impossible at this point.

[Shadey99]

GODzillaGSPB, on 09 August 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

I wonder how that wolf-pack-thing happened. Maybe because cap takes longer the amount of lights easily tripled while there are just 33% more mechs on the field. Strange, strange...

I had seen Jenner wolf packs (premade 4 person teams) pre-12v12. They could be devastating among a group of assaults.

DemonRaziel, on 09 August 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

As I mentioned in another thread, I think I understand their reasoning: more 'Mechs possibly means more Lights and that might end in a too fast caps.

'too fast caps' doesn't really apply to conquest. Reaching the total cap score maybe, but I still doubt it you have more opposing forces to stop you from gaining more than three quick caps. In 12v12 on the test server a light or two may travel to a cap to try to take it or even start taking it, but the enemy soon responded and fighting would begin.

I just got done playing three more rounds of capless conquest. Both sides sort of sloppily grabbed an extra cap (not full caps, 'barely finished' caps) and then trudged to the map center and slugged it out. All three games finished by stomping out the other team and no one even tried to capture the mid point cap...