26 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

I'm right now grinding the Hunchback, so I'm more or less almost done with completing my medium testing spree (Kintaro looks like a disaster based on the GB).

The Hunchback is very much salvageable, but it isn't very forgiving outside of the 4SP. The Hunch is literally life or death to that mech. I've using the 4P and the 4G (yes, that one... to test the potency of MGs).

The Trebuchet is ONLY viable IMO if you are able to make the most out of LRMs... because most of its firepower is contained within the arms.. unless you're the 7K. Any attempts to brawl with it can easily get your arms shot off because they are as big as a Centurion. Jump sniping is not the most desirable either, because of its fairly large CT, which can be shot pretty easily. Ironically, I had the most success in the 5J (which is primarily an energy boat)... and the worst time with the 7M (the NARC hole wasn't an issue IMO). I think the 7K has the most promise... but I'll get to it someday.

The Centurion is the best of the bunch... the real problem is that you're going to be limited in range primarily and if you take a ranged weapon like PPC (Cent-AL) or Gauss (Cent-A or Cent-D), you have to protect the same arm that the YLW is dependent on... which can be a really tough tradeoff. Cents are the probably the best overall platform (at least for mediums) for a beginning trying to save up money. I guess a Cent user could use LRMs (I haven't tried it, but the last time I did was went the Cent-D was the trial mech) and be OK.

Don't get me started on Blackjacks or Cicadas.

[scJazz]

Wintersdark, on 10 August 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

...except give the other team another medium, instead of a heavy - likely a Cataphract, Jag, or some such.

Hunchbacks and Centurions are both roughly 3.5m cbills. The only expensive Centurion is so because it includes an XL300 engine - this is a very valuable engine, and ideal in a great many mechs. Even if you don't use it in the Cent (and there's many reasons not to) nobody cries because they have an XL300 in their mechbay.

I've piloted both Quickdraws and Trebuchets quite a bit. I'll repeat for effect... there is NOTHING a TBT can do that a Quickdraw can't do as well or better. Unless we want to count getting weapon bearing arms blown off. Then the TBT performs stunningly well.

Your point about the XL300 engine is well noted, great advice honestly. However this thread is about a new pilot asking for advice. That one Centurion will blow his entire Cadet Bonus and then some since a STD250 or 275 engine purchase is also on the list. Or he could buy 2 Hunchbacks and fit them out with some bling. Don't get me wrong the Centurion is a great mech I'm just looking at it from the new player perspective checking out his wallet and making the obvious choice.

1 ) Hunchback
2 ) Centurion
3 ) Trebuchet

Disclaimer: I like doing things the hard way and ignoring Koniving's advice so 3 months ago when I started I actually went with the Trebuchet Also, I literally just bought a Centurion CN9-D for no other reason than I my desire to have another XL300 engine and I figured what the heck for another 3m CB I get a chassis and another LBX10

[NineTails]

I'm biased in favor of 'go big or go home' in MWO, because there's no tonnage balancing in the matchmaker. So my non-objective answer for a faster brawler is a Victor. That way, you won't be annoyed at getting blown up by something twice your weight, like you can in a Centurion.

That said, the Centurion is a very fine fast striker and will serve you well if you go that path.

Edited by NineTails, 11 August 2013 - 08:44 AM.

[Wintersdark]

NineTails, on 10 August 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

I'm biased in favor of 'go big or go home' in MWO, because there's no tonnage balancing in the matchmaker. So my non-objective answer for a faster brawler is a Victor. That way, you won't be annoyed at getting blown up by something half your weight, like you can in a Centurion.

That said, the Centurion is a very fine fast striker and will serve you well if you go that path.

There's no tonnage balancing, but there IS weight class balancing. Take a medium, there's a medium on the opposing side. This can slip - take a medium, and there's a light or heavy on the opposing side - if the matchmaker is struggling to find another medium at a comparable Elo level.

But, if you take a Victor? You know there'll be another assault on the other side, because Assaults are extremely common.

[Wintersdark]

scJazz, on 10 August 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

I've piloted both Quickdraws and Trebuchets quite a bit. I'll repeat for effect... there is NOTHING a TBT can do that a Quickdraw can't do as well or better. Unless we want to count getting weapon bearing arms blown off. Then the TBT performs stunningly well.

I didn't say the Trebuchet was good, I said it would give the opposing team a medium instead of a heavy. It's still an important difference.

I'm not a fan of either the Trebuchet or Quickdraw, to be honest. The Trebuchet, like the Kintaro, just isn't a very good mech IMHO. At least, certainly not good for a new player.

Quote

Your point about the XL300 engine is well noted, great advice honestly. However this thread is about a new pilot asking for advice. That one Centurion will blow his entire Cadet Bonus and then some since a STD250 or 275 engine purchase is also on the list. Or he could buy 2 Hunchbacks and fit them out with some bling. Don't get me wrong the Centurion is a great mech I'm just looking at it from the new player perspective checking out his wallet and making the obvious choice.

1 ) Hunchback
2 ) Centurion
3 ) Trebuchet

Disclaimer: I like doing things the hard way and ignoring Koniving's advice so 3 months ago when I started I actually went with the Trebuchet Also, I literally just bought a Centurion CN9-D for no other reason than I my desire to have another XL300 engine and I figured what the heck for another 3m CB I get a chassis and another LBX10

Yeah.... The total cost to Elite Centurions is 5m higher than Hunchbacks overall, but that cost is spread out over a long time. He can be into a Centurion at the same speed as he'd be into a Hunchback (same base costs for the other two variants).

He gets the option of getting into a Hero mech as well. The Wang isn't a bad mech, and as a new player getting a hero mech to push up your c-bill earnings while Eliting your first chassis is a very good idea. I understand if he's not into putting $ into the game yet, though.

The important part, though, is that the Centurion will be sturdier when he's in it. He'll live longer, and thus do more damage, and thus earn more money. The Cent variants are all good, too, whereas (for a new player) only the 4SP is a good option.

Edited by Wintersdark, 10 August 2013 - 05:10 PM.

[Bront]

NineTails, on 10 August 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

I'm biased in favor of 'go big or go home' in MWO, because there's no tonnage balancing in the matchmaker. So my non-objective answer for a faster brawler is a Victor. That way, you won't be annoyed at getting blown up by something half your weight, like you can in a Centurion.

That said, the Centurion is a very fine fast striker and will serve you well if you go that path.

Victors are phenominal fast brawlers, but require a 360 XL or better to really fill that role, and the cost of that plus Tricking a Victor is close to 15 million . I think they're a good second mech once you grind out a medium or light a bit (either by buying just one and loading it out a bit, or eliting 3 variants).

Wintersdark, on 10 August 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

There's no tonnage balancing, but there IS weight class balancing. Take a medium, there's a medium on the opposing side. This can slip - take a medium, and there's a light or heavy on the opposing side - if the matchmaker is struggling to find another medium at a comparable Elo level.

But, if you take a Victor? You know there'll be another assault on the other side, because Assaults are extremely common.

Have you been playing lately? I've had numerous matches where it ends up being 8 lights and a few larger mechs vs a lyrian scout lance (lots of heavies/assaults). There's an attempt at balancing, but it's rarely successful 100% of the time. Beyond that, choosing your mech based on what will drop on the other team is really letting the meta control your play.

[Wintersdark]

Bront, on 11 August 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Have you been playing lately? I've had numerous matches where it ends up being 8 lights and a few larger mechs vs a lyrian scout lance (lots of heavies/assaults). There's an attempt at balancing, but it's rarely successful 100% of the time. Beyond that, choosing your mech based on what will drop on the other team is really letting the meta control your play.

Of course. It's not successful 100% of the time; did you read my post? I said clearly in there:

Quote

This can slip - take a medium, and there's a light or heavy on the opposing side - if the matchmaker is struggling to find another medium at a comparable Elo level.

It's extremely rare to find matches of 8 lights vs. 8 assaults. It happens, but not often. Last time they showed stats, something like 70% of matches were ideally balanced for weight, 20% more were deemed passable, and 10% were considered bad, and this was before the last couple rounds of optimizations. That's pretty much in line with what I see, too - as much as people like to remember the crazy matches, the vast majority of matches are pretty reasonably put together.

As to "letting the meta control your play"? That's just silly. The matchmaker is part of the game mechanics. You know if you take a medium mech, there will be a medium on the opposing team. If you take an assault, there will be an assault on the opposing team. You're not "forced" to do anything, and the "meta" isn't controlling your play, these are simply game mechanics, like weapon heat and damage values. If everyone climbs into assaults, nobody can complain that the teams are full of assaults.

This means you should consider what you field. If you're deciding between a strong medium (say, a Centurion) or a weaker Heavy (Dragon), a factor in that decision is - just like how well balanced the chassis' themselves are - the likelyhood that in the Centurion, you'll be facing another Medium on the opposing team - and statistically a weaker one; whereas if you take a Dragon, it's statistically likely you'll be adding a Jagermech or Cataphract to the opposing team.

Worse, say the matchmaker is struggling and letting loose it's restrictions. If you're taking that Centurion, there could be an enemy Heavy - a Cataphract say. If you're taking a Dragon, it could be an Atlas at the same amount of "loosening".


So, yeah, play whatever you want, but don't be ignorant of game mechanics. It's not always better to get into a bigger mech, and you can bring more to your team by taking - and being good in - a lighter chassis. It'll help even more when tonnage matching is in - and it IS coming.