26 replies to this topic

[Indoorsman]

Works on the DD or S
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...db0c46ed61c50c3



Just recently tried this, it may need another ton of AC20 ammo. Something different to play.

[Victor Morson]

AC2s are terrible but if you're going to run this, the best bet is to swap it to a STD engine and get rid of that boatload of leg ammo waiting to explode.

AC24 STD

[Indoorsman]

Victor Morson, on 22 November 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

AC2s are terrible but if you're going to run this, the best bet is to swap it to a STD engine and get rid of that boatload of leg ammo waiting to explode.

AC24 STD

Can't tell if trolling or serious.... but if serious why not have ammo in the AC2 arm, also the heat efficiency would be terrible with only 10 DHS. Also, how often do you get an exposed torso vs exposed leg. I've lost legs with ammo in them and the ammo not explode. No reason not to put ammo in legs.

[Mercer Skye]

CritJager STD

CritJager XL

Shotgun Support Turret, rawr. Same/Better-ish punch than the 20 x 4 up close, better sustained, at the sacrifice of many ranges. 2x LBX and 4x MGun also means you'll be tearin' up the criticals once you knock a couple armor plates free (4 dps of crit from the MGun, and 20 chances from dual LBX)

[luxebo]

@Indoorsman I think Victor is trying to state on how lights sometimes like to strafe (dunno if that's the best word) around and hit your legs to enjoy the ammo explosion, but at the same time, it's not really a good idea to put ammo in the side torso either. They are giant.

[Victor Morson]

Indoorsman, on 22 November 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Can't tell if trolling or serious.... but if serious why not have ammo in the AC2 arm, also the heat efficiency would be terrible with only 10 DHS. Also, how often do you get an exposed torso vs exposed leg.

I've lost legs with ammo in them and the ammo not explode. No reason not to put ammo in legs.

All that's happened is you've either gotten very lucky, or didn't realize what killed you. i.e. if you put enough ammo in the left leg, the ammo goes up, it will transfer up and show your death as "Left Torso destruction." It was really your leg that got you. This is the same reason I don't put ammo in the arm, because if you are using a Jagger right, you will be exposing your arms a lot.

That said, I do recommend considering adding a CASE to the design as well.

As for the heat? It should both be more than manageable without the extra DHS, and also, this design sucks because the AC/2 sucks. Throwing DHS at the problem won't fix that.

[Indoorsman]

Mercer Skye, on 23 November 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

CritJager STD

CritJager XL

Shotgun Support Turret, rawr. Same/Better-ish punch than the 20 x 4 up close, better sustained, at the sacrifice of many ranges. 2x LBX and 4x MGun also means you'll be tearin' up the criticals once you knock a couple armor plates free (4 dps of crit from the MGun, and 20 chances from dual LBX)

I've run a 3xAC2 3xMG build that works pretty well, have considered running it w/LBs too

Victor Morson, on 23 November 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

All that's happened is you've either gotten very lucky, or didn't realize what killed you. i.e. if you put enough ammo in the left leg, the ammo goes up, it will transfer up and show your death as "Left Torso destruction." It was really your leg that got you. This is the same reason I don't put ammo in the arm, because if you are using a Jagger right, you will be exposing your arms a lot.

That said, I do recommend considering adding a CASE to the design as well.

As for the heat? It should both be more than manageable without the extra DHS, and also, this design sucks because the AC/2 sucks. Throwing DHS at the problem won't fix that.

By AC2s suck is that cause it's not a high ELO alpha wep? Sure is fun as a solo pugger though. I think I've been high elo on occasion because I'll see lots of organized lances running the OPtimized builds. Almost prefer being mid elo where you can play more fun builds though :-p

Also, I'll lose a leg and Betty will say ammo destroyed, suddenly out of ammo but NOT dead. Seems to be fairly common for my ammo to get "destroyed" but not explode?

[Zordicron]

Ammo is not a 100% explode thing. It can be shot and crit like anything else, but it is only a % chance of explodey. AC2 is fine. If you think it suxxxx you are trying to brawl with a weapon that outranges pretty much anything in the game. Poke your head and one arm out from behind a rock and shoot that guy trying to LRM your pals or be the ubrsniperz from 1200M. 2000M/sec means if you point at it you will hit it. it is 4DPS.

Hell i ran a single AC2 and LRM5's on a Centurian and averaged 400 dmg games. AC2 is not for brawls.

[627]

A bit slower, but also possible on an Ilya with STD265

ILYA MUROMETS

Ammo is just thrown in, distribute as you like. you could even fit FF for another ton of anything and a higher engine:
ILYA MUROMETS

[Victor Morson]

Indoorsman, on 23 November 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

By AC2s suck is that cause it's not a high ELO alpha wep? Sure is fun as a solo pugger though.

It sucks because it's inferior to the AC/5 in every way, shape and form, really.

Indoorsman, on 23 November 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Also, I'll lose a leg and Betty will say ammo destroyed, suddenly out of ammo but NOT dead. Seems to be fairly common for my ammo to get "destroyed" but not explode?

Depends how much you have left when it happens for one. The more ammo you have, and the lower your internals when it goes off, the more chance you have of a catastrophic transfer.

[Indoorsman]

Victor Morson, on 25 November 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

It sucks because it's inferior to the AC/5 in every way, shape and form, really.

An AC2 weighs less, takes up less space and has higher velocity. It does less damage, less cockpit shake and generates more heat. Any other benefits/cons are preference really.

[Sandra McCrow]

Well the ultimate damage dealer would be 4xAC2 fired simultaneously. But, it runs way too hot. Last several days I kept swapping from 4xAC2 to 3xAC5 and couldn't decide. Finally I decided that I will stay with just 3 AC2 +2ML loaded on xl280. 3AC2 firing simultaneously are running hotter than 3 Ac5 on a chain fire, but so far I haven't really had problems with overheating. Now the alpha is better with 3 Ac2 (it's 6 every half a second) than with 3 Ac5 (5 every half a second - on a chainfire), hence better theoretical DPS.
So damage, range and shell velocity are better with 3 Ac2... heat is worse, plus less supplementary armament... a matter of preference really.

XL is not a problem - there are matches where I position myself poorly and get stomped by 5 mechs - xl or not - you die right away - in the rest of the games i do consistent 500+ damage and top or second top in the team.

Edited by Sandro Mc, 26 November 2013 - 06:06 AM.

[Mahws]

Indoorsman, on 23 November 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Also, I'll lose a leg and Betty will say ammo destroyed, suddenly out of ammo but NOT dead. Seems to be fairly common for my ammo to get "destroyed" but not explode?

It is. Ammo explosions only have a 10% chance of happening when destroyed by a critical hit or when the section they're in is destroyed. It's extremely rare.

Legs and head are conventionally held as the best place to put ammo because legging is much rarer than torso hits and heads have such little health that the chances of the ammo being crit before you're dead from headshot is almost nill. Counter-intuitively the center torso is also a pretty good choice as the heatsinks inside an engine can be hit by critical damage (and I think the engine itself), meaning you've got (with a 250+ engine) ten extra slots to soak up critical damage. Possible other reason to put them in legs is criticals being applied to leg actuators padding critical rolls, but I'm not sure if they removed actuators as crittable items when they disabled critical hit effects to them.

Side torsos are a terrible place to put your ammo in a Jager, seeing as every player aims for the side torso on Jagers (because XL engines are so common) and there's nothing else there to soak up critical hits, so the chances of your ammo being destroyed (or the occasional explosion) are much higher.

Edit:
A really good guide to critical hit mechanics:
http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/

Edited by Mahws, 26 November 2013 - 05:27 AM.

[Wrenchfarm]

Victor Morson, on 23 November 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

All that's happened is you've either gotten very lucky, or didn't realize what killed you. i.e. if you put enough ammo in the left leg, the ammo goes up, it will transfer up and show your death as "Left Torso destruction." It was really your leg that got you. This is the same reason I don't put ammo in the arm, because if you are using a Jagger right, you will be exposing your arms a lot.

That said, I do recommend considering adding a CASE to the design as well.

As for the heat? It should both be more than manageable without the extra DHS, and also, this design sucks because the AC/2 sucks. Throwing DHS at the problem won't fix that.

BAH HA HA HA! You are so laughably mistaken I can't even believe it! Think of all the times you get side torosed or CTed compared to all the rare occasion when you get legged? And you think it's safer to stash your powder keg in the chest?

No no, please, please, PLEASE keep stashing your ammo in your chest, and tell all your friends to as well! Just making my life easier.

Edited by Wrenchfarm, 26 November 2013 - 06:06 AM.

[NuclearPanda]

Mercer Skye, on 23 November 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

CritJager STD

CritJager XL

Shotgun Support Turret, rawr. Same/Better-ish punch than the 20 x 4 up close, better sustained, at the sacrifice of many ranges. 2x LBX and 4x MGun also means you'll be tearin' up the criticals once you knock a couple armor plates free (4 dps of crit from the MGun, and 20 chances from dual LBX)

I run something very similar to this, except I carry 75 shots of LB and 4k MG ammo, since I find that carrying any less that I run out of LB ammo entirely too quickly. I'm here to tell you right now that this is my absolute favorite Jager build at the moment, and holy {Scrap} is it brutal as hell. You will absolutely tear just about anything a new arse and I've gone toe to toe with two Atlases at the same time.

Love this build. Frequently score 4+ kills and occasionally 1300+ damage.

Edited by NuclearPanda, 26 November 2013 - 06:55 AM.

[OneEyed Jack]

Victor Morson, on 25 November 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

It sucks because it's inferior to the AC/5 in every way, shape and form, really.

So.... Alpha equals every way, shape and form? Because last I checked, AC2 was superior in Range, DPS, Projectile Speed, Tonnage, and Crits .

[CygnusX7]

It's taken me a year and I still play this game dumb.. for all the reasons mentioned.
Unfortunately as much as elo helps it also hinders players because it keeps them in a queue where XL/ammo in torso builds work.

Thus, basic no nonsense builds that would seem inadequate to a nOOb, because they aren't DPS monsters, can be played right.. but those same higher tier pilots can take xl-ammo-chest builds and play them right as well. A mech is truly only as good as its driver.

On the other hand it is fun to come up with crazy builds. I'd love to try out this silliness.
JM6-S.ACK27

[Edit] Moved ammo around a a bit.

Edited by CygnusX7, 26 November 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[RatBast]

OneEyed Jack, on 26 November 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

So.... Alpha equals every way, shape and form? Because last I checked, AC2 was superior in Range, DPS, Projectile Speed, Tonnage, and Crits .

AC2s are fine... as long as you have more than one, and as long as you can manage heat well (One thing that I do on my 3xAC2 builds is that when my heat level is starting to hit critical levels, I switch to chain-fire, so I can still do a little more damage without being pushed over the heat threshold).

[3rdworld]

We actually use the AC/24 for comp matches (when JJs are restricted). Over the 4 uses of it they did between 341-380 damage (which really decent for a comp match). I have thrown 900s in pugs with it.

Love the build.

[Wildstreak]

OP, thanks for inspiring me. When I built Jagers in smurfy's, I always wound up with the same builds on the DD and S, had a hard time coming up with something interesting until now.